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The 800-pound gorilla sitting in the corner

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Old 01-19-2011, 09:50 AM
  #1
mjfrederick
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Default The 800-pound gorilla sitting in the corner

OK, it's been a while now, and I hope we can have a discussion on this without it breaking down into mud-slinging and end up locking (or deleting) the thread. There's been an 800-pound gorilla sitting in the corner for almost six months now, and as a supporter of the USA F3A team, I'd kinda like an answer: Who will be representing the USA at the 2011 World Championships? We all know what happened, and we don't need to re-hash that. I've heard much speculation from people who claim that a decision has been made, but nothing has ever been announced. I even tried the AMA's home page for the team member/manager list, but it doesn't pull up any documents, just re-opens the same page.
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Old 01-19-2011, 10:43 AM
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Default RE: The 800-pound gorilla sitting in the corner

Page 10 of [link=http://www.modelaircraft.org/files/Bulletin1.pdf]Bulletin 1[/link] regarding the F3A worlds has the preliminary submission form participating countries are to use to indicate the number of individuals on their respective team. Interesting it does not ask for names. The submission deadline is February 1st 2011. I can only assume and hope the subsequent bulletins when they are published will list each countries team members by name as information becomes available.

By the way that's a good looking airplane on page 9 of [link=http://www.modelaircraft.org/files/Bulletin1.pdf]Bulletin 1[/link]
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Old 01-19-2011, 10:50 AM
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Default RE: The 800-pound gorilla sitting in the corner

The one on the cover is nice too Glen we are famous now!
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Old 01-19-2011, 11:04 AM
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Default RE: The 800-pound gorilla sitting in the corner

This is why we have alternates. They should always be fully prepared to fill in at the last minute if a primary cannot attend. It is even easier this year since the Worlds will be held in the states the week before the Nats at the same location. I'm sure an announcement will be made at the appropriate time. I don't see a need to speculate here.
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Old 01-19-2011, 01:42 PM
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ORIGINAL: jonlowe

This is why we have alternates. They should always be fully prepared to fill in at the last minute if a primary cannot attend. It is even easier this year since the Worlds will be held in the states the week before the Nats at the same location. I'm sure an announcement will be made at the appropriate time. I don't see a need to speculate here.
I agree 100%. I wasn't really looking for speculation anyway, I posed the question to try and put an end to it, I was looking for a real answer from someone in charge (team manager, NSRCA, AMA). I save my speculation for private messages.
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Old 01-19-2011, 05:15 PM
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ORIGINAL: rcprecision

By the way that's a good looking airplane on page 9 of [link=http://www.modelaircraft.org/files/Bulletin1.pdf]Bulletin 1[/link]
You are welcome...
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Old 01-19-2011, 05:35 PM
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Default RE: The 800-pound gorilla sitting in the corner

Not to play devil's advocate much, but is it up to the team manager/officials to decide upon who actually flies on the team? Do they even have the option of making that call? Allowing the team management to decide the team pilots or make changes to the team on their own outside of the results of the selection contest seems like it sets a dangerous precedent, and creates a very slippery slope of simply changing team pilots because someone doesn't happen to like someone else.

Keeping in mind of course, the 800 lb gorilla could in fact result in nothing, regardless of how things look now. People still are in fact innocent until proven guilty in this country, and as a result the team should be as decided upon in the selection contest until such time as a pilot advises the management they will be unable to compete. All alternates should be as ready to go as possible if that word comes.
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Old 01-19-2011, 08:03 PM
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Default RE: The 800-pound gorilla sitting in the corner

Well said!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Gary
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Old 01-19-2011, 10:41 PM
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Default RE: The 800-pound gorilla sitting in the corner

can anyone point out out what is the gorilla and what has happned i dont want to start anything just wanted to know what the history was can somone maybe pm me please
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Old 01-20-2011, 04:35 AM
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ORIGINAL: Doug Cronkhite

Not to play devil's advocate much, but is it up to the team manager/officials to decide upon who actually flies on the team? Do they even have the option of making that call? Allowing the team management to decide the team pilots or make changes to the team on their own outside of the results of the selection contest seems like it sets a dangerous precedent, and creates a very slippery slope of simply changing team pilots because someone doesn't happen to like someone else.

Keeping in mind of course, the 800 lb gorilla could in fact result in nothing, regardless of how things look now. People still are in fact innocent until proven guilty in this country, and as a result the team should be as decided upon in the selection contest until such time as a pilot advises the management they will be unable to compete. All alternates should be as ready to go as possible if that word comes.
I agree 100% on the innocent until proven guilty, but my intent was not to start a discussion on that. I've heard a lot of rumors and speculation that the team manager or team selection committee does have a little lattitude to replace a team member if he felt that any team member would not represent the USA well, or not be a good ambassador for US pattern. This is an excerpt from the team selection "Blue Book" on the AMA website:
VII. World Championship Teams
Becoming a team member carries with it the obligation to work in harmony with the other team members, and in particular, to be responsive and submit to the guidance and direction of the team manager. A team member’s conduct should never cause embarrassment or discredit to the Academy or the United States.All team members shall be present at all official functions at a World Championship. This includes the opening and closing ceremonies and the banquet.
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Old 01-20-2011, 05:14 AM
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Default RE: The 800-pound gorilla sitting in the corner

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ORIGINAL: haikt

can anyone point out out what is the gorilla and what has happned i dont want to start anything just wanted to know what the history was can somone maybe pm me please
All you need to know is that one of the pilots who placed highly in F3A at the Nats (thereby qualifying for the Worlds team) subsequently got himself into some serious legal trouble.

This discussion concerns the official and final decision concerning the composition of the Worlds team, and nothing more.

It shouldn't be a difficult decision inasmuch as Alternates were decided at the Nats based on their scores. And they are world-class pilots.

I PM'd so you can search the information yourself.
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Old 01-20-2011, 05:21 AM
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Default RE: The 800-pound gorilla sitting in the corner

Gents,

All details are known, also outside the USA.
I think it would have been better never start this thread!

Cees
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Old 01-20-2011, 07:00 AM
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ORIGINAL: Taurus Flyer

Gents,

All details are known, also outside the USA.
I think it would have been better never start this thread!

Cees
While I may disagree with you, I respect your opinion. When I posed the question I knew there would be some who felt that way, but as someone who has financially supported Team USA in the past, and plan to do so again in the future, I felt I had a right to know what and who I am supporting. So far the thread has maintained the tone I intended, and I certainly have refrained from mentioning specifics, in fact I didn't even want to go so far as what cmoulder posted and simply responded to the query about what happened with a PM.
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Old 01-20-2011, 09:33 AM
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Default RE: The 800-pound gorilla sitting in the corner


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ORIGINAL: mjfrederick
VII. World Championship Teams
Becoming a team member carries with it the obligation to work in harmony with the other team members, and in particular, to be responsive and submit to the guidance and direction of the team manager. A team member’s conduct should never cause embarrassment or discredit to the Academy or the United States.All team members shall be present at all official functions at a World Championship. This includes the opening and closing ceremonies and the banquet.
To me this implies conduct while acting as a team member at a world championship event more so than things outside the scope of the team. I could also see where you might extrapolate that out to all aspects of representation or action as well, but I'm not sure I agree with that idea.

I also don't think your support of the team should be predicated upon who's actually on the team, unless you would have a moral objection to supporting someone who's been accused of having legal trouble outside of the flying circle. Yes, I'm choosing my words carefully here because as of right now it's still only charges.

My position.. support the team as a whole, regardless of who is actually flying.
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Old 01-20-2011, 12:09 PM
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Default RE: The 800-pound gorilla sitting in the corner

please delete
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Old 01-20-2011, 12:10 PM
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Default RE: The 800-pound gorilla sitting in the corner


Quote:
ORIGINAL: Doug Cronkhite

Not to play devil's advocate much, but is it up to the team manager/officials to decide upon who actually flies on the team? Do they even have the option of making that call? Allowing the team management to decide the team pilots or make changes to the team on their own outside of the results of the selection contest seems like it sets a dangerous precedent, and creates a very slippery slope of simply changing team pilots because someone doesn't happen to like someone else.

Keeping in mind of course, the 800 lb gorilla could in fact result in nothing, regardless of how things look now. People still are in fact innocent until proven guilty in this country, and as a result the team should be as decided upon in the selection contest until such time as a pilot advises the management they will be unable to compete. All alternates should be as ready to go as possible if that word comes.
I agree with you
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Old 01-20-2011, 02:35 PM
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Default RE: The 800-pound gorilla sitting in the corner

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ORIGINAL: Doug Cronkhite

To me this implies conduct while acting as a team member at a world championship event more so than things outside the scope of the team. I could also see where you might extrapolate that out to all aspects of representation or action as well, but I'm not sure I agree with that idea.

I also don't think your support of the team should be predicated upon who's actually on the team, unless you would have a moral objection to supporting someone who's been accused of having legal trouble outside of the flying circle. Yes, I'm choosing my words carefully here because as of right now it's still only charges.

My position.. support the team as a whole, regardless of who is actually flying.
The mere fact that my interpretation can be extrapolated is why the question arises in the first place.

Whether or not I support the team (I do) is not why this thread was started. That being said, if I chose to not participate in fund-raising or chose not to donate money merely because of the composition of the team, that's my choice and is not subject to public scrutiny. Guess why... because it's my money.
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Old 01-20-2011, 03:29 PM
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Default RE: The 800-pound gorilla sitting in the corner


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ORIGINAL: mjfrederick
Whether or not I support the team (I do) is not why this thread was started. That being said, if I chose to not participate in fund-raising or chose not to donate money merely because of the composition of the team, that's my choice and is not subject to public scrutiny. Guess why... because it's my money.
I agree completely and my comment wasn't intended to be criticism or scrutiny. Just observation.
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Old 01-21-2011, 07:08 AM
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Default RE: The 800-pound gorilla sitting in the corner

Well I hope the alternate is practicing a much as he can. I would not be surprised if the USA Team does not have any decision to make; as it could well be made for them by the courts. Even with 'just charges' making travel arrangements would be difficult.
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Old 01-24-2011, 08:40 AM
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Default RE: The 800-pound gorilla sitting in the corner


Quote:
ORIGINAL: mjfrederick

OK, it's been a while now, and I hope we can have a discussion on this without it breaking down into mud-slinging and end up locking (or deleting) the thread. There's been an 800-pound gorilla sitting in the corner for almost six months now, and as a supporter of the USA F3A team, I'd kinda like an answer: Who will be representing the USA at the 2011 World Championships? We all know what happened, and we don't need to re-hash that. I've heard much speculation from people who claim that a decision has been made, but nothing has ever been announced. I even tried the AMA's home page for the team member/manager list, but it doesn't pull up any documents, just re-opens the same page.
Whether you support the TEAM or don't support it, is a personal decision. One doesn't support a single team member unless one decides to sponsor one specific team member, outside of TEAM support.

What I am not sure I get is why bring up this particular subject in a public forum such as this. There are much better and easier ways to get the correct answer. I suggest you contact the Team manager and the F3A Team Selection committee directly. Decisions have probably been made already and your answer waits. I also suggest that you remove the thread
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Old 01-24-2011, 10:01 AM
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Default RE: The 800-pound gorilla sitting in the corner

Matt,

Again the point of this was to ask the composition of the team. Nothing else. I wasn't saying I wouldn't support the team if someone was on it. Posing this question in the forum is, to me, exactly what these forums are for: to try and get information that has not been disseminated elsewhere. Again, the intent was not to slander anyone at all. I assume that is why this thread was not deleted or locked. That and the question still has not been answered. It has been kept on point at all times, and I'm darn proud of that given what happened with previous threads on this topic. You're entitled to your opinion, but I'm entitled to mine as well, I guess we just disagree. I'm not going to lose any sleep because of that.

MattF
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Old 01-24-2011, 10:59 AM
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Default RE: The 800-pound gorilla sitting in the corner


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ORIGINAL: mjfrederick

Matt,

Again the point of this was to ask the composition of the team. Nothing else.

I'm not going to lose any sleep because of that.

MattF
I stated it clearly enough, but here goes one more (last) time: contact the Team Manager or the F3A Team Selection committee for a prompt answer.

Neither will I....Unsubscribed
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Old 01-24-2011, 11:20 AM
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Default RE: The 800-pound gorilla sitting in the corner

From what I understand the Team Manager has been contacted but has not given an answer. So it looks like the F3A Team Selection committee
will need to make a decision
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Old 01-24-2011, 03:21 PM
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Default RE: The 800-pound gorilla sitting in the corner

Click on the link below, or google Nick Darcy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nick_D'Arcy

Got dropped from the Olympic team for being on charges, then dropped again from the world championship team after the conviction.

Now I'm sure that the interpretation of the respective codes of conduct will vary depending on how many good friends you have.


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Old 01-28-2011, 06:14 AM
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Default RE: The 800-pound gorilla sitting in the corner


Quote:
ORIGINAL: haikt

can anyone point out out what is the gorilla and what has happned i dont want to start anything just wanted to know what the history was can somone maybe pm me please
Yes.

It really boggles me why people dance around this instead of just linking the story and moving on with the discussion around it.

It is official PUBLIC news and the story can be found here: http://www.polksheriff.org/NewsRoom/...hChildren.aspx

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