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  1. #376
    David Bathe's Avatar
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    RE: OS 33GT Gasoline Engine for Pattern

    Bryan, agree. I've had thousands of flights with YS, super. Serviced them regularly, always carried a bag of spare parts and feed them exclusively on CP 30% heli and laveshed them with TLC. That was then. Now I'm only interested in low tech, low cost. Something that'll do the job, good enough for me and my occasional hobby. And I guess I'm not alone. Matt is leading the charge here, fascinating stuff.
    Best Regards: davidbathe.com
    Occasional Aircraft Illustrations.

  2. #377
    MTK's Avatar
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    RE: OS 33GT Gasoline Engine for Pattern


    ORIGINAL: David Bathe

    Bryan, agree. I've had thousands of flights with YS, super. Serviced them regularly, always carried a bag of spare parts and feed them exclusively on CP 30% heli and laveshed them with TLC. That was then. Now I'm only interested in low tech, low cost. Something that'll do the job, good enough for me and my occasional hobby. And I guess I'm not alone. Matt is leading the charge here, fascinating stuff.
    Thanks David,

    As I've said many times before, the OS GT33 coupled with a hatori #2301 RTC header, ES Composites 40G pipe and rubberisolation mountmakes as fine a combination for top end pattern as anything available today. I fly with guys that run top end electric equipment and YS175 set-ups. I don't see any advantage to the other set-ups.

    Is2 stroke gasolineLow Tech? Well, I've played with several of the other engines and always come back to the OS for its mid range torque. Engineers at OS have figured out a nice set of parameters for the 33 that just works great in pattern.

    Could it be better? Probably.....Is it LOW COST? I's say that it's extremely low cost overall (lowest of all others by far), and very low fuss, low or nomaintenance, supremely reliable, simple starting, feeding and running, no need to change plugs, etc etc. and certainly no need for rebuilds.....The more I run it, the more impressed I am; not just its power, but its simplicity. It's a sport engine true enough, but has all the attributes of a top shelf comp engine, far superior to the glow 140RX and 160FX, Webras and Mintors and every flavor of YS 4 stroke except for the 170/175 which it equals....
    Regards,
    MattK
    (Rcmaster199@aol.com)

  3. #378
    David Bathe's Avatar
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    RE: OS 33GT Gasoline Engine for Pattern

    Your experiments have been a great read. 
    When I say "I guess I'm not alone" i actually believe I'm standing with the masses... except they just wont acknowledge it. Who doesn't want a no brainer power plant the delivers what we've after, costs nothing, demands nothing and runs on cheapo fuel?
    Imagine if folks like Byran, could get behind such a power plant, design an airframe around it? imagine if a cottage engineering company could sort out the nose ring solution (not saying yours is bad, just say imagine a professionally machined job).... we'd have a combo that was more than good enough for 95% of us, 99% of the time. It's a game changer! Even if you had a top end glow/e model... you'd still have one of these.

    Sure there'll be those that must have the ultimate power plant used by the worlds top players. The difference is that they're been given and feed theirs for free... you have to buy them... with money that is very, very likely far better spent else where. And there'll be those that'll just say that without the best... I'm simply not competitive. Well the real truth is possibly... when you get seriously competitive, good enough to compete against the worlds best... you too will be given the stuff! 

    Or am I just ranting?
    Keep up the good work anyway.
    Best Regards: davidbathe.com
    Occasional Aircraft Illustrations.

  4. #379
    MTK's Avatar
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    RE: OS 33GT Gasoline Engine for Pattern


    ORIGINAL: David Bathe

    Your experiments have been a great read.
    When I say "I guess I'm not alone" i actually believe I'm standing with the masses... except they just wont acknowledge it. Who doesn't want a no brainer power plant the delivers what we've after, costs nothing, demands nothing and runs on cheapo fuel?
    Imagine if folks like Byran, could get behind such a power plant, design an airframe around it? imagine if a cottage engineering company could sort out the nose ring solution (not saying yours is bad, just say imagine a professionally machined job).... we'd have a combo that was more than good enough for 95% of us, 99% of the time. It's a game changer! Even if you had a top end glow/e model... you'd still have one of these.

    Sure there'll be those that must have the ultimate power plant used by the worlds top players. The difference is that they're been given and feed theirs for free... you have to buy them... with money that is very, very likely far better spent else where. And there'll be those that'll just say that without the best... I'm simply not competitive. Well the real truth is possibly... when you get seriously competitive, good enough to compete against the worlds best... you too will be given the stuff!

    Or am I just ranting?
    Keep up the good work anyway.
    David,

    You've always been supportive.I really appreciate that....Can't say the same for some closer to me here.

    I am probably too old now to be competitive at the World level. But my grandchildren are very young; you never know what interest will be sparked.

    Stay tuned for a Bryan/Matt combination coming very soon.... I will be posting on Bryan's website and probably not on RCU, but we'll see.....
    Regards,
    MattK
    (Rcmaster199@aol.com)

  5. #380

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    RE: OS 33GT Gasoline Engine for Pattern

    Hi Matt,
    Work is continuing on the DLE 35 install in the Majestic lots to do in paint and covering still before we can fire it up and see what shakes!

    I have obtained a Hatori 936 originally designed for the OS BGX, just wondering about header length and how I can make this rear exhaust port engine work now we have lost the length of the usual wrap around header. Would you say 28 inches from piston to the flat disc is about right?

    Reading through this very informative thread I see you have had a great deal of fun with the response of the standard walbro at mid throttle settings and it reminds me of a similar problem I had,
    Basically I had a zenoah 23 in a heli with the throttle controlled by a governor, any bump or burble would send the governor mental and it tried to go to full throttle or the gyro couldn't cope and the tail would move violently through 90degs. Being very difficult to set the mixture correctly on a heli anyway this rough running had to be fixed and try as much as I could the needle tweaking wasn't the answer. So I ditched the standard buterfly walbro and retrofitted a barrel type walbro problem solved and a big plus only one needle to set, the throttle response was a lot smoother and almost linear just like a normal glow Carb.
    You've got me considering if I will need it on the 35 in the Majestic my other 35 in a MSXR has had a few more flights and has some good power but is certainly not linear and burbles quite a lot.
    Food for thought.
    I will try and get a link for the Carb.
    Regards
    Rob.

  6. #381

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    RE: OS 33GT Gasoline Engine for Pattern

    Walbro wyk33
    The one I used is on the page listed below as item ZEN518 halfway down page, not sure if a standard wyk33 would do the job or if the venturi size mismatch would be a problem, however in a heli which sat at half throttle all the time it was excellent.

    http://www.prestwich.ndirect.co.uk/z...ineengines.htm

  7. #382
    MTK's Avatar
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    RE: OS 33GT Gasoline Engine for Pattern

    Around 28" from center of piston to the main reflector should be just right. 1" longer won't hurt but shorter might, depending on the pipe design.

    A Walbro with a barrel type carbcould help and I'd like to try it. I didn't think Walbro made oneso I have not checked. Athird needle for mid rangeshould also help but that requires a new carb design altogether. Either that orinstall an arm on the low speed needle and set it up on a servo...

    The standard Walbro that comes with the OS33 is not that bad really. Very manageable with a rather flat curve from 15% to 80% of stick travel. This middle 65% of stick travel causes about 35% servo response. The jump at around 4K rpm is lowest with the OS, possibly due to conservative exhaust timing.

    A couple years ago before theOS was available,I was running the SAP180HP and have a 60 page threadhere in the Pattern Forum on what we learned. The jump at 4K with this one was very noticeable; manageable also but much more noticeable. Exhaust timing was around 170 degrees as I recall.

    Regards,
    MattK
    (Rcmaster199@aol.com)

  8. #383
    MTK's Avatar
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    RE: OS 33GT Gasoline Engine for Pattern


    ORIGINAL: morecashthansense

    Walbro wyk33
    The one I used is on the page listed below as item ZEN518 halfway down page, not sure if a standard wyk33 would do the job or if the venturi size mismatch would be a problem, however in a heli which sat at half throttle all the time it was excellent.

    http://www.prestwich.ndirect.co.uk/z...ineengines.htm
    Rob,

    I purchased one of these carbs to fit on the OS at some point. I think it should fit on the crankcase okay and the pressure pulse is not a big deal since the OS already has one in the crankcase. I need to figure out how to change the actuation of the throttlearm for plane use.

    I saw the response ofyour DLE35 in your video and I think it is an improvement over the stock carb. I can only hope it will improve the OS; to be sure the OS is pretty good now. If it can be improved, all the better...We'll see
    Regards,
    MattK
    (Rcmaster199@aol.com)

  9. #384

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    RE: OS 33GT Gasoline Engine for Pattern

    Has anyone tried the os gt 33 with a canister? The thottle curve should be much more linear than with a pipe. What is the gain in rpm with the eg pipe compared to the pitts muffler ?
    thanks,
    John

  10. #385
    MTK's Avatar
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    RE: OS 33GT Gasoline Engine for Pattern

    Yia sou Yianni,

    I have tried several ES Composites canisters with varying results. None of them will boost power enough to really turn the APC 20 x 10.5 or 20.5 x 10. The props are turned but at 400-500 rpm lower revs, or in the high 6000's. BTW- the ES Composites canisters were all prototypes; I don't think Ed Skorepa has plans to commercialize them.

    Expect around 500 rpm boost with the ESComposites pipe. You can get more if you shortened it to maybe 26" to the baffle, but I don't think you will like to bump at around 4000 rpm. I leave mine stretched to around 28" to the baffle to help tone down the bump and produce best all around handling for Pattern. Noise is extremely subdued also....very similar to some geared electrics

    Experimentation is continuing tho, with a new walbro carb. Based on input from Rob, I will try the WYK33 carb which features a barrel type throttle valve (like glow) and larger venturi. Rob is getting terrific output from his DLE35 using this carb. TheDLE with the new carbis putting out similar power or slightly morecompared tothe OS (stock carb).

    Both the DLE and the OS have more than enough power to fly any 2 meter Pattern plane. I also took a quick look at the PTE36....also good power but I continue to hear how quickly these engines are breaking down, so I don't recommend that one....
    Regards,
    MattK
    (Rcmaster199@aol.com)

  11. #386
    rmh's Avatar
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    RE: OS 33GT Gasoline Engine for Pattern

    If you have plenty of time and patience - try different header diameters on Ed's pipes - they are the best out there - my opinion but you have to match the load (prop) with desired rpm.
    Two stroke engines -used as a prop power source- often need plenty of carb fiddling -to get smooth midrange to full rpm transition- (some think this is a torque increase -it ain't)
    as a suggestion- use the smallest carb which will produce a max power you feel necessary.
    We had all the ZDZ40's and any of Ed's pipes we needed -a few years back-
    the combos eventually worked vey well - but each setup took some tuning.
    the generalization of about 28" to pipe baffle on the 40/50 sized pipes worked very well.
    Power ?
    gobs of power - but -takes a bit of thought and patience to get best results.
    Peak power may be down a little once you hit best prop/pipe carb-
    Mine were one flip engines and I also used 33% syn oil exclusively- more tolerant of heat
    Being old n lazy - I fly only electric now - but the gas DOES work
    Libby is still watching you

  12. #387
    MTK's Avatar
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    RE: OS 33GT Gasoline Engine for Pattern

    Dick

    That was true back when you were running ZDZ's, really the only game in town back then, so to speak. In my limited experience with ZDZ I agree with you...it takes lots and lots of fiddling and in the end is not as friendly as the current crop of 30-35cc engines....Mine never developed the power either

    After the initial learning curve everyone will have to go through (myself included, took maybe a couple months to gain the confidence), my current engines have been simple plug and play.Hardly any carbfiddling; and they have been practically set-it forget it types. Also, much lighter than the old ZDZ's. As I have mentioned many times, the OS33develops very similar power to the YS175 and it includes mid range. It is the only one so far with the power of the YS at mid range....the other 2 strokes lack that....

    The standard Walbros do need a curve.....elementary for today's radios. Except, the Walbro WYK33 with the rotary barrel valve may not need anything...we'll see

    I will be playing with a VVRC 40 twin very soon. I am very curious whether the vibes can be eliminated with a soft mount and IF the power is there throughout the throttle curve. Intend to run pipes on it
    Regards,
    MattK
    (Rcmaster199@aol.com)

  13. #388
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    RE: OS 33GT Gasoline Engine for Pattern

    Matt...et al

    What is the Walbro carb model number used on the OS 33GT?

    What is the barrel diameter of the OS 33GT "manifold" to which the carb mounts?

    Thanks all.

    \"FLYING IS MY LIFE\"

  14. #389
    MTK's Avatar
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    RE: OS 33GT Gasoline Engine for Pattern

    Venturi diameter is 12.5mm (1/2").... It's the same for all the 30cc class engines I have seen. The carbs only differ in how the pump is actuated (internal pressure port or external pressure tubing)

    The "manifold" is actually the reed cage and its diameter is the same as the venturi
    Regards,
    MattK
    (Rcmaster199@aol.com)

  15. #390
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    RE: OS 33GT Gasoline Engine for Pattern

    The Evolution 33 looks like it should be a good contender -
    I used the 26 with the pipe (Ed's and power was excellent as well as throttle response throughout the entire range-in a 9 lb model excellent power even at 4300 ft.
    It actually pulled one of my big ol EXCESS models pretty well - not good enough for FAI tho- 9 lbs was maxed out.
    I like front induction setups and the Evolutions I had were very good -except for early ignitions they were goofy
    Libby is still watching you

  16. #391
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    RE: OS 33GT Gasoline Engine for Pattern

    If you ever decide to take another look at gassies, the GT33 is the right one. Hatori makes a header for it (also fitsthe DLE30 and several others). It loves a load so prop it accordingly, supply adequate cooling to itand see for yourself. My GT33 set-ups are terrific with either the ESC 30G or 40G pipes. I am certain that the new 35G pipes will work the same

    I've stopped looking for single cylinder engines in this size. I have found what's needed in highest level Pattern comp. There's minimal downside, if any.....maybe downlines. But I've seen electrics go faster in the downlines than my GT33 does

    I am looking at the small twin just to see if other characteristics (vibes) can benefit and if there's a down side
    Regards,
    MattK
    (Rcmaster199@aol.com)

  17. #392

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    RE: OS 33GT Gasoline Engine for Pattern

    Matt, Very interested in any information you care to share, and am looking forward to same concerning the VV 40T.

    Thanx
    T-man49 in Al

  18. #393
    rmh's Avatar
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    RE: OS 33GT Gasoline Engine for Pattern


    ORIGINAL: MTK

    If you ever decide to take another look at gassies, the GT33 is the right one. Hatori makes a header for it (also fitsΒ*the DLE30 and several others). It loves a load so prop it accordingly, supply adequate cooling to itΒ*and see for yourself. My GT33 set-ups are terrific with either the ESC 30G or 40G pipes. I am certain that the new 35G pipes will work the same

    I've stopped looking for single cylinder engines in this size. I have found what's needed in highest level Pattern comp. There's minimal downside, if any.....maybe downlines. But I've seen electrics go faster in the downlines than my GT33 does

    I am looking at the small twin just to see if other characteristics (vibes) can benefit and if there's a down side
    Downside of small twins:
    The volumetric efficiency of a twin is always less - no matter how you look at it
    Just like the RN of a smaller model changes efficiency - no way around it .
    IF the twin was providing two power pulses per rev- then it would be something in it's favor
    BUT- the imbalance would be a killer .
    four strokes go bang then wait two turns
    the prop accelerates then decelerates over a longer period-making serious airframe loads .
    Everybody rationalizes to explain their own preferences.
    I do - you do - everybody does.
    Gear boxes and belts are a pain to use -and listen to- been there -but really work!
    I will have to go see Ed and see what he is working on-
    .


    Libby is still watching you

  19. #394
    MTK's Avatar
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    RE: OS 33GT Gasoline Engine for Pattern

    Hmmm, the twin is providing two power pulses per rev. They happen at the same time but are diametrically opposed and should cancel the vibes each generates. However the tork pulse is in a single direction. Can't cancel that of course; the beastie would have a tough time turning. Some vibes are expected

    Pattern people tend to be focused on what drives them. Be it beautiful flights, finishes, powerplants, radios, whatever. It is all a matter of preference. For me, 2 stroke and 4 stroke glow was fine for a long time. Electrics were not in my cards (still are not regardless of how my flying buds feel); but I wanted something new, different and challenging to focus on. Enter gas......my preference. The earlier gas stuff just didn't have the guts of the YS170 (which was my benchmark). I went as far as purchasing a full blown electric set up as a result of a couple key caveats with gas, even tho I didn't really want it. Well, OS came out with their GT33 and everything changed for the better as far as I was concerned. A couple fellas in France feel the same about the RCGF32 (I think that's great to have options)......

    Yeah I understand the pit falls of small twins....Many years ago I flew a BME106; just so so power

    The weight and power reported by VVRC for the 40cc form a compelling argument worthy of a trial experiment. If it equals the 33 in handling and output, then we'll have something

    BTW, I just realized that someone made this thread a "sticky". I assume it was a moderator yet nothing was said. For some reason I found that a bit irritating
    Last edited by MTK; 08-07-2013 at 01:22 PM.
    Regards,
    MattK
    (Rcmaster199@aol.com)

  20. #395

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    The small gas engines have always been a bit tempermental for me. I flew the 3W 26, and while it put out a lot of power for its size, it was a pain to setup and manage. Clearly the smaller gas engines have come of age though, and it sounds like the OS 33 is a great choice.

    Oh, and don't confuse a lack of response on your thread for a lack of interest. I've been following your threads for some time now, but haven't felt a need to comment as I wouldn't be adding anything to the discussion.
    Doug Cronkhite

  21. #396
    MTK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doug Cronkhite View Post
    The small gas engines have always been a bit tempermental for me. I flew the 3W 26, and while it put out a lot of power for its size, it was a pain to setup and manage. Clearly the smaller gas engines have come of age though, and it sounds like the OS 33 is a great choice.

    Oh, and don't confuse a lack of response on your thread for a lack of interest. I've been following your threads for some time now, but haven't felt a need to comment as I wouldn't be adding anything to the discussion.
    Thanks!

    Just commissioned the second GT33 this weekend. Identical set-up as in my Aesthesis....ESComposites 40G pipe, own soft mount, avgas / Bel Ray MC1 at 50:1 ratio. The only difference is the header. I am using a steel flex header in the latest set-up in my Delta from Mile High RC, that was hand bent to return the exhaust to center. Cost is only around 25$ so less than 1/3 the cost of the Hatori RTC header. The steel header is very thin walled (lighter than the Hatori aluminum unit, so it's almost too thin) and a little too flexible. I will probably wrap the convolutions with glass to stiffen it a bit.

    On the business side, same character as the first engine in Aesthesis. I have an 18.5 x 9.5 wide apc (courtesy of DinoP) on it right now for break in. The set-up is very quiet in my Delta. Delta, at 10 lbs 3 ozs, is about 1 1/4 pounds lighter than Aesthesis so you can imagine what performance is like.....Just need to get a bunch of break in flights over the next couple weeks. The synthetic oil is extremely effective since it takes a good 4 gallons to fully break in. My set-up is as simple as it gets: same fuel mix for break in as regular running. Change to the regular flight prop after two gallons on the break in prop. That's about it.

    BTW- the first engine is on original everything. Same plug, same couplers, same mount rubber, same ring, carb, piston and bearings of couirse. Zero maintenance (after the early factory defect was fixed at 4 flights). Just over 40 gallons through it, over 100 hours of running, closing in on 500 flights. The built in protection of Avgas has possibly helped.

    There are two things OS could do to improve on this powerplant: Offer a more linear carb, possibly rotating barrel type, than the current Walbro. Offer the engine in rear exhaust configuration. Neither of these things has been an obstacle of course. These things would simplify an already simple set-up even more, if geared directly at pattern and not Sport. Oh yeah, and get rid of the clunky looking muffler and save us 50 bucks.

    EDIT--- The header from Mile High RC was too flexible and fatigued in 5 runs. Dunno, it might work better on a hard mounted engine but mine are all soft mounted so the steel header is toast. Back to Hatori
    Last edited by MTK; 09-01-2013 at 12:21 AM.
    Regards,
    MattK
    (Rcmaster199@aol.com)

  22. #397

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    Is it possible to use a DLE ignition sensor on the OS?
    http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXDKRD&P=Z

    Thanks.

  23. #398
    MTK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roberto B. View Post
    Is it possible to use a DLE ignition sensor on the OS?
    http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXDKRD&P=Z

    Thanks.
    Roberto, did you ask this same question in another thread? I think I answered there but maybe worth repeating. They are both Hall sensors and work the same....But use the correct CDI...

    BTW- the second OS GT33 commisssioned a couple weeks ago has about 4 hours run time on it (about 1 1/2 gallons). I took the small, break in prop off it (18.5x9.5 Wide Blade APC) and put the regular running prop on it (20.5 x 10 PN APC). RPMs dropped as expected to 7200 and everything else cleaned up (low throttle, mid range and downline brakes all got better).

    Another BTW- I am using the DLE55 carbie on this OS. No reason other than the fact that they have identical throat diameters, same needle locations, same pressure port location and same location for both choke and throttle arm. I had the model set-up for the DLE55 carb originally so it was a glove fit and minimal work.

    SOOOOOO- in the event the carb needs to be replaced, buy the one for the 35 or 55 DLE. It's the same identical carb.....but, what, 1/3 the cost??
    Regards,
    MattK
    (Rcmaster199@aol.com)

  24. #399

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    Thanks Matt, Your infos are precious as usual.

  25. #400

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    Hi all,

    Have you seen the new OS Four Stroke Gasoline engine?

    rgds


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