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OS 33GT Gasoline Engine for Pattern

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OS 33GT Gasoline Engine for Pattern

Old 06-18-2015, 03:30 PM
  #451  
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Word is Hatori is closing down. So if you want a header...........

I found this header on a muffler combo, fits the OS, has more drop to it, looks to be at least 30mm, could be 35, haven't measured it. Not using the can. Actually like this header more, not sure how long it will last though.

http://www.agmhobby.com/item/agm30-c...ust-p-253.html
Old 06-19-2015, 07:19 AM
  #452  
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Originally Posted by rm
Word is Hatori is closing down. So if you want a header...........

I found this header on a muffler combo, fits the OS, has more drop to it, looks to be at least 30mm, could be 35, haven't measured it. Not using the can. Actually like this header more, not sure how long it will last though.

http://www.agmhobby.com/item/agm30-c...ust-p-253.html
I can't find the Hatori headers anywhere either. If this header fits, it should work. With a small mod to the exhaust tube, service life should not be a problem.
Old 06-19-2015, 07:22 AM
  #453  
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FYI just talked to HATORI USA and Hatori and the USA shop is NOT going out of business.

Post like this does not help there business. PLEASE make sure it's true before posting.
Old 06-19-2015, 09:08 AM
  #454  
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I dont know how a gas engine will be good for a F3A flying, is there any other 2 cycle glow engine for F3A apart from the YS
Old 06-19-2015, 01:32 PM
  #455  
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Originally Posted by computermonkey
FYI just talked to HATORI USA and Hatori and the USA shop is NOT going out of business.

Post like this does not help there business. PLEASE make sure it's true before posting.

Hatori have stopped manufacturing their products. Once all stock is sold, that's it.

Some products have already been discontinued.

Last edited by drac1; 06-19-2015 at 01:35 PM.
Old 06-19-2015, 01:37 PM
  #456  
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for two pipes that he couldn't get the tubing worth the cost.
Old 06-19-2015, 01:37 PM
  #457  
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Double,
Old 06-19-2015, 02:13 PM
  #458  
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Well time will tell. Here's the first line of the newsletter that what was sent to me from one of their retailers. I hope Hatori is around for a long time.

"Hatori is going out of business and soon all items will be discontinued. "



Old 06-19-2015, 02:14 PM
  #459  
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agreed
Old 06-20-2015, 03:32 AM
  #460  
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Hey Matt
Gave the es pipe a try. Made up some of your couplers. You should of patented these! A lot lighter setup then teflon and clamps. Make good protection for the plug cap wire also.
The AGM header fits perfect. 20x10 Falcon carbon prop. Turned 75-7600 on the ground at about 27". Kind of hard to measure the header for length, I used the centerline.

I found it kind of peaky in the air, seemed to jump onto the pipe before reaching half throttle. More power than could possibly want. Actually found it hard to control for the style I want to fly.

I'm gonna lengthen it a couple inches and see what it does.

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Old 06-20-2015, 01:27 PM
  #461  
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Originally Posted by rm
Hey Matt
Gave the es pipe a try. Made up some of your couplers. You should of patented these! A lot lighter setup then teflon and clamps. Make good protection for the plug cap wire also.
The AGM header fits perfect. 20x10 Falcon carbon prop. Turned 75-7600 on the ground at about 27". Kind of hard to measure the header for length, I used the centerline.

I found it kind of peaky in the air, seemed to jump onto the pipe before reaching half throttle. More power than could possibly want. Actually found it hard to control for the style I want to fly.

I'm gonna lengthen it a couple inches and see what it does.

The GT33 has the lowest jump of the engines I've played with...... It takes considerable throttle expo curve to tame the Walbro's mid range. But it can be done and I'm doing it. Interestingly, I don't find the ESC pipes peaky at all. Just great power (and torque galore for the beefy props)

I don't know anything about the AGM engine tho. The rpm is about right on premium gas and I agree it's way more than we need for a 10 1/2 lb airplane. I have my GT33's set-up to operate at about 6-6.5K at mid stick. I fly all vertical stuff there at a very comfortable pace. It's a very quiet set-up.

Thanks on the couplers. Got sick and tired of playing with standard silicone with iffy performance. The coupler ablates the inner layer of silicone and exposes the ceramic cloth which is unaffected by heat. Works great on the YS 4 stroke too
Old 06-20-2015, 11:59 PM
  #462  
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Tried this setup today, about 74 deg, light winds, somewhat humid.

Set my length to 29" from 27. ES pipe, AGM header, GT33, Falcon 20x10 carbon, 90 octane.

Upper RPMs dropped to 71-7200 from 75-7600, set mid throttle stick to a little over 5K, will idle reliably at 1600. Worked on throttle curve and came out fairly linear (photo). Throttle response is excellent over the entire range.

Bumped up the idle to 18-1900 as downlines were to slow. At 10lbs 11oz vertical pull was excellent. It still has the increased torque, just not the high rpms. Could pull any size radius over the top.

Only complaint was the sound wasn't as pleasing as a cannister, other than that this setup blows away any cannister setup I've tried. It actually feels like a cannister setup while flying. Downline breaking is phenomenal. Didn't miss a beat over 8 flights, that's 1.5 hours of airtime. Will have to see how it does on a hot, windy day. I'm pretty happy right now.

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Last edited by rm; 06-21-2015 at 12:03 AM.
Old 06-21-2015, 06:59 PM
  #463  
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Originally Posted by rm
Tried this setup today, about 74 deg, light winds, somewhat humid.

Set my length to 29" from 27. ES pipe, AGM header, GT33, Falcon 20x10 carbon, 90 octane.

Upper RPMs dropped to 71-7200 from 75-7600, set mid throttle stick to a little over 5K, will idle reliably at 1600. Worked on throttle curve and came out fairly linear (photo). Throttle response is excellent over the entire range.

Bumped up the idle to 18-1900 as downlines were to slow. At 10lbs 11oz vertical pull was excellent. It still has the increased torque, just not the high rpms. Could pull any size radius over the top.

Only complaint was the sound wasn't as pleasing as a cannister, other than that this setup blows away any cannister setup I've tried. It actually feels like a cannister setup while flying. Downline breaking is phenomenal. Didn't miss a beat over 8 flights, that's 1.5 hours of airtime. Will have to see how it does on a hot, windy day. I'm pretty happy right now.

Excellent RM. The curve is similar to what I use.

Don't forget that a soft mounted engine drops the dBs a lot. Also, an exhaust disperser produces a mellower sound. The late Karl Mueller made these for the guys. Since they are no longer available, I came up with an alternative that works surprisingly well and is lighter. I'l take some photos and post later.

It's made from a 1" length of aluminum tube, 1/2" diameter. I used typical hand tools for mine but a mill would make small work of this device. One end is cut to produce 6 teeth of about 1/4" in length. Teeth are then bent over coming together at center. There is just enough room remaining forming slits where the teeth come together, which work well to disperse the exhaust and its note.
Old 06-22-2015, 02:04 AM
  #464  
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I'd be interested in seeing your disperser. I'm pretty sure the noise is pretty much exhaust driven as the cannister noise was a lot more tolerable and the level was very acceptable. One guy at a contest thought it was a ys, the land owner of our local club said he thought it was as quiet as the electrics. I'm also thinking a prop with a little more load could help change the exhaust sound. Hard to find a carbon prop to fit the bill. I'd kinda like to stay away from the apc as I don't need the nose weight. PT makes a 21x10 I may give a try.

I've avoided the soft mount because of the added weight. Another 3oz up front coupled with the 4oz weight of the motor extensions would be tough to overcome. I've already moved all servos to the tail. I also feel that's why we see so many broken headers. I've been trying to think of a way to get rid of the motor extensions. That would help a lot.
Old 06-26-2015, 03:42 PM
  #465  
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Got in some flights today before the rain gets here. Pretty nice at 75 deg, 6 knot wind.

Decided to try an 18x10 3BL PT model prop.
Same pipe setting, required a touch richer on low and high needle.
71-7200 top end, 5300 mid, 1900 idle, measured at end of 11 min flight.

Changed the sound to a deeper more pleasant note, which made me happy.

Performance was pretty nice for masters. Nice speed, downline speed just right. Doesn't pull the top radius as nice, may be a problem in heavier winds and heat. Will have to see. I'm thinking if this is a problem may be able to shorten pipe about an inch or so and gain some extra performance? Would have to see about that. Overall, I really liked the setup under todays conditions. Not as sharply responsive, which made things smoother. Pipe only gets slightly warm, which amazes me.
Old 06-27-2015, 08:14 PM
  #466  
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Originally Posted by rm
I'd be interested in seeing your disperser. I'm pretty sure the noise is pretty much exhaust driven as the cannister noise was a lot more tolerable and the level was very acceptable. One guy at a contest thought it was a ys, the land owner of our local club said he thought it was as quiet as the electrics. I'm also thinking a prop with a little more load could help change the exhaust sound. Hard to find a carbon prop to fit the bill. I'd kinda like to stay away from the apc as I don't need the nose weight. PT makes a 21x10 I may give a try.

I've avoided the soft mount because of the added weight. Another 3oz up front coupled with the 4oz weight of the motor extensions would be tough to overcome. I've already moved all servos to the tail. I also feel that's why we see so many broken headers. I've been trying to think of a way to get rid of the motor extensions. That would help a lot.
Hmmmm... My whole mount including the stand offs weighs less than 4 ounces. I've written before what I do with mounts but may be worth repeating.
The stand offs are 5/16" hex with 8-32 threads, 1 1/4" long I think. McMasterCarr off the shelf item. The mount is the rubber iso mount I've discussed many times before. Its weight is around 2 1/2 ounces. I use 8-32s because the soft mount doesn't require any heavier for this small engine. Probably could use 1/4" hex and 6-32 bolts on 30cc class since I use the 8-32 on my 55 and 60 cc soft mounted set-ups too. The typical 10-32 is fine only for hard mounted set-ups; it's considerably heavier and the stand offs are very heavy. My 4 stand offs are about 1 1/2 ounces.

The OS GT 33 turns the apc 20.5x10 PN very well. From what I hear from my YS toting friends, as well or better that the 185 turns this prop.

The only 3 blade I tried was the 18x10 Mezjlik. This carbon prop just wasn't enough load and it was louder than the apc props so I stopped using it after break in. Been wanting to put together a 19x11 3 blade using apc blades; one of these days when I'm retired I may get to this project
Old 07-03-2015, 01:56 PM
  #467  
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Motor took a dump today 10 minutes into the flight. Just lost power and quit. On the ground no compression and clicking noise. Will prob need a new ring and liner I would imagine. This is the second motor that's had a big problem. 1st one lost the c clip off the piston rod, that didn't go well.

So if I send it out there, they don't have any pistons, if it would need that who knows how long it would take. I suppose if I tear it apart myself to find out what exactly is wrong they'll void the warranty, who knows if they'll warranty it anyways. I've seen others who had this problem and they didn't end up happy. Something about warped liners.

I could just tear it down myself and order the parts straight from japan for half the cost of hobbico and put a bowman ring in it.

I've been wanting to try a DA35.
Old 07-03-2015, 09:11 PM
  #468  
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Originally Posted by rm
I'd be interested in seeing your disperser. I'm pretty sure the noise is pretty much exhaust driven as the cannister noise was a lot more tolerable and the level was very acceptable. One guy at a contest thought it was a ys, the land owner of our local club said he thought it was as quiet as the electrics. I'm also thinking a prop with a little more load could help change the exhaust sound. Hard to find a carbon prop to fit the bill. I'd kinda like to stay away from the apc as I don't need the nose weight. PT makes a 21x10 I may give a try.

I've avoided the soft mount because of the added weight. Another 3oz up front coupled with the 4oz weight of the motor extensions would be tough to overcome. I've already moved all servos to the tail. I also feel that's why we see so many broken headers. I've been trying to think of a way to get rid of the motor extensions. That would help a lot.
Let me see if I can post. It's a new computer and I haven't figured it out yet. The Karl Mueller after muffler is shown for comparison to the ally tube which is 1/2 inch. The tube's end is sawed into sixths and wedges are snipped with cutting pliers
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Last edited by MTK; 07-03-2015 at 09:20 PM.
Old 07-03-2015, 09:18 PM
  #469  
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Then with a triangular file which actually works out perfectly in regards to angles, the wedges are shaped to final. Then the wedges are lightly tapped to final shape. The slits are the width of an Xacto 11 blade. The holes are 1/16". The original prototype device is shown on Delta's stinger
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Last edited by MTK; 07-04-2015 at 06:37 AM.
Old 07-03-2015, 09:36 PM
  #470  
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Originally Posted by rm
Motor took a dump today 10 minutes into the flight. Just lost power and quit. On the ground no compression and clicking noise. Will prob need a new ring and liner I would imagine. This is the second motor that's had a big problem. 1st one lost the c clip off the piston rod, that didn't go well.

So if I send it out there, they don't have any pistons, if it would need that who knows how long it would take. I suppose if I tear it apart myself to find out what exactly is wrong they'll void the warranty, who knows if they'll warranty it anyways. I've seen others who had this problem and they didn't end up happy. Something about warped liners.

I could just tear it down myself and order the parts straight from japan for half the cost of hobbico and put a bowman ring in it.

I've been wanting to try a DA35.
Geez, sorry to hear of your problems. I'm almost embarrassed to say how much flying my number 1 engine has delivered. Still strong in it's 5th season. I don't think I'm doing anything unusual. I use MC1 Racing Synthetic from Bel Ray at 50:1 mixed in avgas. My needles are 1 1/4 LS and 1 5/8, actually a hair less, on HS. It's turning the 20.5 x10 PN at over 7K. Terrific idle.

I've paid lots of attention to cooling both the engine (notice the shrouds that suck air out) and pipe (note the NACA inlet just aft of the chin cowl). Here's a couple pics

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Last edited by MTK; 07-04-2015 at 06:39 AM.
Old 07-04-2015, 01:57 AM
  #471  
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Tore down the motor. Not sure what to think.

Looks like some metal went through it. Top of piston and cylinder head had shrapnel. Side of piston looks scratched as well as liner, piston looks worse than the liner. Ring seems to be intact, though it was stuck. Can't find anything that came apart in the motor. Crankcase was clean and looked good. Bottom of cylinder head where the plug opening looks weird. Is that the way its supposed to look?

Was running HP ultra 50:1
high needle was between 1.5 and 1.75 turns
low needle was at 1.75 turns
Plug looks good.

Included some shots of my baffles. Been running all last summer and this year without heating problems so far.

What da ya think?
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Old 07-04-2015, 02:10 AM
  #472  
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Just remembered I still have the cylinder head from my previous engine.

I'm thinking the bottom of the plug hole came apart into the top of the piston.
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Old 07-04-2015, 02:16 AM
  #473  
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Originally Posted by rm
Tore down the motor. Not sure what to think.

Looks like some metal went through it. Top of piston and cylinder head had shrapnel. Side of piston looks scratched as well as liner, piston looks worse than the liner. Ring seems to be intact, though it was stuck. Can't find anything that came apart in the motor. Crankcase was clean and looked good. Bottom of cylinder head where the plug opening looks weird. Is that the way its supposed to look?

Was running HP ultra 50:1
high needle was between 1.5 and 1.75 turns
low needle was at 1.75 turns
Plug looks good.

Included some shots of my baffles. Been running all last summer and this year without heating problems so far.

What da ya think?
Looks like some metal went through it. Top of piston and cylinder head had shrapnel. Side of piston looks scratched as well as liner, piston looks worse than the liner. Ring seems to be intact, though it was stuck. Can't find anything that came apart in the motor. Crankcase was clean and looked good. Bottom of cylinder head where the plug opening looks weird. Is that the way its supposed to look?

It does look like metal has gone through the engine.

Yeah, definitely looks strange around the plug thread, I noticed that before I read your post. Does it look like there is metal gone from around the plug thread?

The ring looks deformed as well. Maybe it's been hot??
Old 07-04-2015, 02:17 AM
  #474  
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Originally Posted by rm
Just remembered I still have the cylinder head from my previous engine.

I'm thinking the bottom of the plug hole came apart into the top of the piston.
I agree. I would say too hot??
Old 07-04-2015, 02:23 AM
  #475  
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Originally Posted by MTK
Let me see if I can post. It's a new computer and I haven't figured it out yet. The Karl Mueller after muffler is shown for comparison to the ally tube which is 1/2 inch. The tube's end is sawed into sixths and wedges are snipped with cutting pliers
I've seen photos of those on a YS. Do you notice any performance loss?

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