radray

Just my luck - today was the first really nice day to fly, and I took my old reliablle Rev Pro out with the new replacement speed controller and it burned up within 1 minute of the first flight. The first ICE HV 80 which was flawless was returned as part of the recall. Hopefully it will not take too long to get this one replaced as the weather is definitely improving.

From a safety perspective, it was quite fortunate that the controller was mounted in the pipe tunnel below the radio and battery, because much more damage may have occured if it was mounted inside the fuselage as most current electric planes are designed. I was also fortunate that the controller melted the wires, as Bob said "like a fuse", before the LIPO battery was damaged due to a short. I hope my motor wasn't damaged in the event, it sounded horrible when the controller went - like the break went on at half throttle.

Ray

NeilRivera

Have you checked your motor for damage ? I have seen a Castle Ice burn up untill it became irrecognizable and the problem was not the controller itself; it was a magnet come loose inside the motor...

radray

No, the motor turns very freely, there does not appear to be any damage or loose magnets (Himax 210 HV). I will send the motor in to be inspected anyway just in case there was any damage or malfunction. The only change from the previous flight was the speed controller, but that does not necessarily rule out a coincidence.

Thanks,

Ray

Jetdesign

My Feedback: (8)

Sorry to hear, Ray. Keep us posted. I was worried about this, I sent in a couple of working controllers, now have 2 I've never used.

wattsup

My Feedback: (1)

Hi Ray, just a suggestion, you might want to contact Laurie directly by telephone at Castle Creations. I suffered a similiar situation to yours and she was very quick to resolve my problem. It's quite possible that it's NOT your Himax 210 motor! If it were me, I'd install another ESC and see what happens before I'd just ship the Himax motor back and waste alot of time and $. Regards, Everette

radray

Everette,

I pulled the motor this morning and carefully inspected it and do not see any irregularities. Bob mentioned he would loan me a 110 speed controller to check the motor so I may do that first. I will call Castle tomorrow. It is amazing how that burned smell permeates everything. It was interesting that the failure occured very early into the flight and in level flight (inverted) steady at about half throttle. I completed the clover, hammerhead and was just about to start rolling in the 3 of 4 reversed roll when the failure occured.

Thanks,

Ray

wattsup

My Feedback: (1)

Ray, you are on the right path. One thing for sure, the failure of an ESC is unpredictable and yes, it sure does STINK! Laurie is really great to work with and will do exactly what is best for you! Let me know if I can help you, Hebron, KY is not that far from me! Everette

cmoulder

Am I going to toast my Ice2 80HV with brief peaks of 100-amp load??

We finally got some flyable weather today - albeit with 15-20 mph dead cross winds - and a chance to test some different props with the Pletty Xtra 30-09 V2 and the Ice2 80HV.

This motor is known for high amp draw, which I also saw in the CC data logs for mine when running even the less steeply pitched PT 20x13, which was peaking at 100 amps. I tested a couple more props today and was hoping to get some useful info from the data logger, and I assumed incorrectly that the data logger simply overwrites the old data, which it does not. So a bit of wasted effort there and no new info about amp draw with the other props, a Falcon 20x13 and a PT 20x12.

Although the amp draw has some high peaks, the temperature of the ESC is barely warm, the motor is only warm (maybe 120degF on the hottest area on the back of the case) and the batteries barely warm, so it doesn't seem that anything is being stressed at all. It behaves like a "happy" set-up, you might say.

It would be nice if CC had an option for overwriting data on the logger! And maybe time/date stamp!!

Next time, the laptop goes to the field with me.

cmoulder

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(double post deleted)

wattsup

My Feedback: (1)

Hi Bob, without knowing alot about your set-up, I'd say you are right on the edge of over-amping your ESC/motor combination. I've heard the figure of 20% (over and above their posted rating) bantered around that most esc's have supposedly built into them. Does than mean you can go out and safely run/peak your set-up at approx 96 amps+ day after day? I doubt it! I can't speak for nor will I try to speak for any of these manufacturers. The ESC business is a very competitive and the manufacturers are reluctant to discuss much other than their basic ratings. Yes, I do run Castle Esc's and have been happy with the new V2 controllers but I also run Spin Jeti's (77 and 99). I know the consequences of over-amping and try my best to avoid it by the careful selection of motors, Esc's, props and believe it or not, the AUW weight of the planes I build. Keep in mind, everything has it's limitations and these manufacturers know what they are looking at in over-amp situations. After all they built and tested these Esc's. I guess what I'm trying to say is "you can't send a boy out to do a man's job"! Hope this helps, Everette

cmoulder

Everette,

I guess I am confused (and doubtful) about the data I am getting, which does not seem to correlate with the observed effects.

Which is to say, if I'm pushing it that hard - on the ragged edge of smoking it - why is NOTHING getting anywhere near hot? I read about guys routinely running ESCs around 140-180 degrees, and this one has thus far registered a peak of 109 degrees and averages way below that! Similar findings with the motor and batteries... There seems to be a bit of anomaly with the data.

One bit of 'clean' data I will manage to get is actual mAh comsumption when I recharge the batteries. I made it a point on the last few flights with various props to take off, fly the sequence and then land promptly as if flying a contest round, so that data will be good.

I am inching my way toward getting it right and plan to record 3 good flights next time with 5hz data sampling with the 3 different props, Pt 20x12 and 20x13, and the Falcon 20x13.

Below is a log from the first day of flying with the Pletty (not from yesterday) to give some idea. Poor throttle management, but at least it shows the peaks.

wattsup

My Feedback: (1)

HI Bob, perhaps you are going to experience even higher temp readings as we get later into the season. What was the air temp and humidity levels when you flew your Spark? The point I'm trying to make is if the temp readings are this high now and the summer season of pattern flying is coming, what can you expect? Just so you know, I document every flight including, duration, post flight voltage, milliamps restored following charging, length of charge time, post-flight pack temp, IR reading at end of charge cycle and post-flight motor temp. I do this because of what happened during the time I was transitioning from glow to electric 6 years ago. My mistake was to listen to people who "thought" they knew about electric flight, etc. It proved to be an expensive mistake. Basically, if possible, I leave nothing to chance. Over a period of time you can actually see the trend of the batteries as the age and slowly become unsuitable for my needs.
I am aware you can experience high amps with the Pletty Xtra 30-9 if you are not diligent. Personally, I don't use or trust the on board data log system. I guess it's OK if all you want is a "snap-shot". Now, if someone comes up with a true data log system that say stores the last 10-12 flights, I'd be excited about that. Bob, I know you know what your are doing. Just don't expect too much from this Pletty/esc/prop combination. Then and only then you run the risk of "smoking it"! Hope this helps you, Everette

cmoulder

The first day of flying (for the displayed log) it was cool outside, starting at 26F and rising to about 42F later.

However, yesterday it was 64F for the last few flights and the same component temps were observed. Maybe when it's 85F I'll start to notice some difference. The model does, however, have very good ventilation, with the spinner nose lopped off and an air scoop for the motor, and the ESC and batteries with very good airflow over them.

I love the power of this motor so if necessary I will get a 120HV when they become available.

I am light years behind you as far a log keeping but starting to appreciate the value of it. But I have always kept track of mAh's put back into the batteries and I always check the individual cell IRs as this is the easiest way to spot a battery that is going bad.

Jetdesign

My Feedback: (8)

Castle explicitly told me to not use any current limiting on the iceHV, that any high current draw is short duration in our application.

Bob, if you go to full throttle position and hold there before you arm the esc, you will hear beeps. Go back to mid throttle, more beeps, and data is now cleared so you can log a new set of flights.

cmoulder

Thank you, Joe.

Shame on me for not reading the instructions carefully. I'm sure the info is there.[]

Anthony-RCU

My Feedback: (2)

Ran my 30-09 at much higher power levels on an Ice 80hv light with no issues. Internal temps will be very telling. After over 100 flights internal temps started to get high in summer so I switched to a standard 80hv and never thought about it again.

For th op do check the motor. I had an Axi 5330 that ran perfect but would eat an esc in very few flights. Had an identical set up in another plane that went for hundreds of flights. Hobby Lobby replaced the motor without every saying why.

http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=35216

Very helpful

Dave Harmon

Bob.....I think your graph looks pretty normal except for that one current spike to 100A at 230 seconds.
Attached is one of my Masters flights picked at random last summer in 115 degree OK heat and humidity.
Note that the max current draw seems to be about 80A.
The motor is a Plet 30-10, the esc is a CC ICE HV 80....not the new version.
The airplane is a Valiant.
Here are my settings.

cmoulder

Thanks, Dave.

My settings are pretty much in line with what you are running, except that I have the LVC at 3.0v/cell, soft cut-off.

I will know more when I get some good data at a higher sampling rate with the other props, now that I've screwed up everything than can be screwed up. I was very impressed with a rare 20x13 Falcon that I bought from the MPI guy at the WRAM show. He told me they are going to expand their line into some of the smaller diameter and lower pitch props they don't currently make.

Is your 30-10 the Evo or Advance? They are both hard to find these days!

cmoulder

Well, I've got 26 flights on it thus far and it hasn't eaten anything yet!

Seems like a totally sweet set-up. I will recharge 1 or 2 of the batteries from the "contest" flights to see how many mAh's were used. At least that will be some useful data.

Dave Harmon

Bob....my motor is the EVO 30-10 and the prop is a Falcon 20.5x14.5.
I strongly suggest that you change the LVC to 32 soft cutoff because you want it to shut off before the battery gets so low it cannot restart. If the LVC is set to 30 the battery is just crowbarrred.

I have already lost an airplane this way....and I was warned several times to never....like ever....to fly more manouvers than the pattern.
Just get up there, fly em' and land immediately.
Well I didnt and I had what looked like a normal landing off the runway and the fuse buckled right behnd the gear plate.
Make sure to set the current limiting to 140A to prevent a shutdown caused by a spike.

I use the same setup on my Gaudius but that airplane does not require the higher throttle settings.

cmoulder

Some data from the recharged main batteries. All discharged in the course of doing my best to fly the Advanced sequence as close as I could to contest ability (in a 15-20mph crosswind) and then landing promptly. I tried to keep it out past 150 meters and fly big and not skimp on the verticals.

PT 20x12 used 2986/3011mAh (2x5S) with Nanotech 4500 35C and 2966/3004 with Sky 4400 40C, recharge time 41:07 and 37:41 respectively with Cellpro 10XP @ 2C.

Falcon 20x13 used 2893/2928 with Sky 4400 40C and 2916/2967 with the Nanotech 4500 35C, recharge time 44:29 and 42:40 respectively.

The Sky 4400s are some impressive batteries. The Falcon 20x13 felt like it had really good thrust.

I hope the Ice2 80HV will hold up because this combo is not lacking for power with 3500 watts and 6700 rpm.

cmoulder

I have my timer set very conservatively so that I land with battery packs at a no-load voltage of ~3.7v/cell, and the first thing I do with new batteries is to adjust flight time according to capacity as indicated by recharge values. Sometimes I fly a few extra maneuvers, but always with the assurance that there is plenty of buffer to do so.

I don't remember who suggested setting the LVC at 3.0v/cell, but when looking at the CC data logs it is clear that at higher throttle settings later in a flight it is not at all uncommon for the voltage under load to drop to 3.3v/cell. One can see how this might lead to a false indication that something is amiss if the LVC is set higher.

So that I don't forget to set my timer, it is triggered by the throttle stick, and it stops at idle. So when the model is sitting on the runway before take-off, and during a downline with no throttle, the timer stops. Accordingly, I have found that a timer setting of 5min20sec is appropriate for the way I fly.

This seems to be working well so far. In addition to the other batteries I am trying out, I am still using my original two sets each of cheap Zippy and Rhino 20C's with more than 100 cycles each and they are doing just fine. Who knows how long they'll last? I doubt I'll get more than 300 cycles as some claim with the expensive TPs, but already I have gotten my money's worth by treating them well.

NJRCFLYER2

My Feedback: (42)

Bob:

With a whopping total of 10 e-flights under my belt now, I can relate to your need to manage the logging buffer contents more easily. The feature that you want to ask them for isa circular buffer with time stamps at the start and end of a session, or at least with a unique session ID to discern what you have left in the buffer. A circular buffer simply wraps around when it becomes full and startsoverwritingthe oldest data, so you always have the most recent data that will fit the buffer memory that is available. A snake eating it's tail, if you will. The other handy thing would be an LED code/beep code to tell you that you're approaching, or are already into a wrap around condition, thus alerting you to grabthe datafrom the controller before you lose thehistory that you may want.

cmoulder

Ed, I know that sometimes we complain too much, given the riches of information available as a built-in feature that used to be an expensive add-on not all that long ago.

More of a "Don't you wish they would also..." kind of musing. And while I'm musing about "Why don't they...?" kinds of things, it would also be nice if the Data Connect circuit (the one that lets you download ESC data logging without unplugging the ESC signal wire from the receiver) was also contained on the ESC circuit board instead of an add-on, in-line accessory which introduces more weight and another point of failure. I'm sure that's on CC's to-do list.

OK, so what model and electrical bits are you flying? Enquiring minds want to know!

nonstoprc

My Feedback: (90)

You could clear the data buffer on CC ESC at the field via the following instructions.

"Clearing Phoenix ICE & ICE hV data log
Power your controller up with your TX & RX on and set to full throttle. The controller will chime the normal power up chimes. Leave your TX at full throttle for 6 seconds after power up. The controller will emit a short tone after 1 second and then a long tone 5 seconds later. The controller will then erase the data log. You must then move the throttle stick to lowest power to arm the controller."

It is still desirable to down load the content immediately after a flight, say to a smart-phone, and to annotate.