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F3A Results - SPOILER

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Old 08-03-2012, 09:31 AM
  #26
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ORIGINAL: flyncajun

There is no doubt that Andrew had a advantage his advantage was hard work and,(preparation) and he knew his equipment. I bet he knew what to expect in Muncie and planned his setup for the possibility of any condition.
The guys who wins, is the guy who knows the limitations and advantages of whatever equipment he uses.

I can tell you this, there will be a mass migration back to Glow for the simple fact that Glow power has the advantage of throttle flexibility. there is no denying this . In FAI, Presentation, Grace and constant speed in all conditions play a major roll in putting up a top flight consistantly. The only time Brett even went to full power was on the last flight in the 30mph winds.Having said that, our speed did not change just the Energy we flew with.

Chip did a great job managing his setup in the conditions Better than anyone else could have, giving the same setup and conditions.
But there was no denying the direction he has to go to keep pace, I know he is already making plans

Power flexibilty and the ability to adapt to conditions without harming equipment is the key in a top set up,
Not the Cost, or what Joe blow is running. This ,takes a top pilot to determine. Being able to fly P with any set up is intended for
enclusive involvement of competitors. But,Seperation of the ''Top Guys'' takes a pattern that stretches the Equipment, Pilot, Caller, and challenges his preparation and skill, No matter what conditions or patterns are thrown your way.
Tha`st why they are innovators in the Hobby and set the direction of the sport when it comes to Equipment.

You can Bet Both Camps will be making adjustments to the Equipment after seeing whats involved in flying the new unknowns in any conditions. No top competitor likes surprises!

But only preparation and knowing the limitation of your equipment ,prepares you for the unknown..

Bryan

Hi Bryan,
I agree with most of the above.
But not with ;'I can tell you this, there will be a mass migration back to Glow for the simple fact that Glow power has the advantage of throttle flexibility. there is no denying this .'
I suppose only time will tell.
If it was possible to drive a contra with one I would agree.

Brian





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Old 08-03-2012, 10:19 AM
  #27
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you never know whats around the corner!
Bryan
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Old 08-03-2012, 10:55 AM
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Default RE: F3A Results - SPOILER

You can take away my batteries when you pry them from my cold dead....

Wait, that's something else. But I do like electric. For most of us I think it works very well. Maybe the top few percent of pilots might feel differently, but for me, I'll stay with electric. It suits my limited skill set very nicely.
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Old 08-03-2012, 11:08 AM
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Hi Silent ,
no doubt it works well I agree, it`s healthy to have more than one choice in the hobby. Competition is good for all.
However, generaly I`m speaking about the top FAI Class of pilots, we have to worry about the demands of the hardest manuevers.
and cannot be limited by the equipment.

Using all your God given abilities to judge,EI. sight ,sound, the beauty and musical note of a YS has a "flavor" thats hard to beat!
And a smoke trail that confirms perfection in the geomety is the icing on top .

Bryan
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Old 08-03-2012, 01:26 PM
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I'd be willing to bet a smoke trail will betray you more often than confirm your geometry.
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Old 08-03-2012, 01:32 PM
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Hi Doug

I`ll take that bet!
The only smoke that will betray you is the one showing the "spiral slip stream" or coming out of a speed controler!
Bryan
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Old 08-03-2012, 01:42 PM
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I'm just guessing that it helps with running the big YS engines if your flying skills can inspire the devotion of a dedicated mechanic to help keep them running in top shape.
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Old 08-03-2012, 02:05 PM
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LOL Well it don`t hurt Bill

But, Brett is quite capable to tune his own motors now he has to he lives 8 Hours away! LOL
But as always, a good piece of equipment looks better in great hands.
But don`t be decieved , the new 1.75 is a "***** cat" to tune.It`s the best motor since the 1.40L with, or with out the CDI.

The top class in FAI has become a team sport no doubt ,And ,we both have our strong points
he does his job, I do mine...
Bryan
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Old 08-03-2012, 02:17 PM
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Default RE: F3A Results - SPOILER

Bryan can lay a wax job like no one (poke poke).

I must say, I think Brett flying first with a smoke trail helped others with wind correction later!

Chuck
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Old 08-03-2012, 02:52 PM
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I'm having a hard time with this. The winner, who absolutely smoked 'em in the finals, was flying electric. And second place, who was distinctly ahead of the third place YS flier, was also flying electric. And now the top F3A pilots will have to switch to a YS? Just seems difficult for me to comprehend.
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Old 08-03-2012, 03:02 PM
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LOL ME Too Tony!
Bryan
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Old 08-03-2012, 03:21 PM
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: TonyF

I'm having a hard time with this. The winner, who absolutely smoked 'em in the finals, was flying electric. And second place, who was distinctly ahead of the third place YS flier, was also flying electric. And now the top F3A pilots will have to switch to a YS? Just seems difficult for me to comprehend.
Hi Tony,
It's a classic example of that marketing phrase ; 'Perception is reality'.

Brian
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Old 08-03-2012, 03:36 PM
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Brian, you're right. The only thing I can draw from it is if you go to the Nats/Team Trials with an overweight electric model that has to use too small of a battery pack to make weight, you're going to have trouble flying the ridiculously difficult Unknowns in bad conditions. Not much of a surprise to me. But if you go with a nicely designed, lightweight electric model with battery packs that have tons of capacity, you can kick everyone's butt. Even in terrible conditions.

My hats off to Andrew. He is not only a very talented pilot, but he works harder at it then anyone I have ever known. But I do like reminding him I beat him in 2005! Just goes to show again how much he has worked at it to get to the level he is at now.

Now after looking at the Unknowns flown, I'm going to start flying Masters again!
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Old 08-03-2012, 03:53 PM
  #39
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Default RE: F3A Results - SPOILER





I guess, there is someone also saying he beat Michael Phelps when they were swiming in high scool.

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Old 08-03-2012, 04:15 PM
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Default RE: F3A Results - SPOILER

I do not think the idea is to tell people that everyone has to change, but rather to expose the fact that unless you have the right and very best equipment , in very bad conditions there is a chance to run out of battery like it happened in the Nats and now at European Championships.

And electric is not as perfect as most electric pilots advertise as well as YS can have its issues, it is balanced in certain way.
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Old 08-03-2012, 04:18 PM
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Hey Tony
All in Good Fun, we are excited to have been counted in the top three!

We could always raise the weight limit! so your airplanes make weight with the HEAVY packs.

I wish you could have caught a ride to the Nats this year to see a beautiful YS-Bipe set up in action! your oppinion might change.
I agree, Andrew deserves where he placed no doubt, read my earlier post. But by your example posted, we should all be flying YS
since it has been 1-3`rd so many times in all the previous WC.( Where it counts)

Did you switch back to regular electric when Rick beat you flying your contra? Nope,
you went back made adjustements and So did Rick
The winner does not always have the best setup. The best setup is determined by the indavidual pilot ,what he can afford, Get through his sponsors,and actually make work for his situation.it`s a personal choice some guys have todo just what they can afford , theyhave no sponsors. SOe guys just flywhat they feel is the Best period regardless of their sponsors.

But a real competitor can see the future and make adjustments to get there first.This is sometimes called the bleeding edge .sometimes called the" Edge"
I know Pride will keep many from switching back But trust me eventually Many will. Sarting at the Top!


To Each his own But, I Want my Cudo`s when you see a bunch of guys switch back to YS. As it is now, the only advantage to electric is conveniance,and sponsorship!
not equipment (i`m talking FAI) not AMA.

Bryan
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Old 08-03-2012, 04:30 PM
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: RC_Pattern_Flyer

Bryan can lay a wax job like no one (poke poke).

I must say, I think Brett flying first with a smoke trail helped others with wind correction later!

Chuck
LOL.

Also, the trail could imply the need to adjust the ESC for a lower cut-off setting.
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Old 08-03-2012, 05:27 PM
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: flyncajun

Hi Doug

I`ll take that bet!
The only smoke that will betray you is the one showing the ''spiral slip stream'' or coming out of a speed controler!
Bryan
It can create the appearance of non-axial rolls as well Bryan.

The whole Electric vs Glow argument is so Chevy vs Ford it's laughable. Clearly, viable options are there for both.
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Old 08-03-2012, 05:30 PM
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: TonyF

I'm having a hard time with this. The winner, who absolutely smoked 'em in the finals, was flying electric. And second place, who was distinctly ahead of the third place YS flier, was also flying electric. And now the top F3A pilots will have to switch to a YS? Just seems difficult for me to comprehend.
Yep, and that 2nd place guy was flying a very non-overweight biplane too. Hmmm.
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Old 08-03-2012, 07:05 PM
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Default RE: F3A Results - SPOILER


Quote:
ORIGINAL: Doug Cronkhite


Quote:
ORIGINAL: TonyF

I'm having a hard time with this. The winner, who absolutely smoked 'em in the finals, was flying electric. And second place, who was distinctly ahead of the third place YS flier, was also flying electric. And now the top F3A pilots will have to switch to a YS? Just seems difficult for me to comprehend.
Yep, and that 2nd place guy was flying a very non-overweight biplane too. Hmmm.
Hey Doug all this talk about weight problems has me a little self conscious now lol. Just to set the record straight even with the contra and TP5000's I had room to spare, lol I tipped the scales at 5049, every time we weighed it.

As for the electric vs glow the race is probably as tight as its been since probably 2006 and that is just my opinioun from being there. I know how hard Andrew worked and I know how hard I did. I flew almost everyday for two weeks and in that time I think I had about 8-10 flights of P in before the contest started. However in that sequence I was winning and Andrew and I split our lines. So in theory the contra set up must be making something easier or look a little better in that pattern wouldn't you agree.

As for the F and unknown as an outsider watching those guys it just looked like Brett had the ability to relax a little more. (I am not saying he flew better) Honestly I have not thought even for a moment in the past 7 years that maybe the glow engines could have an advantage. However for some reason, some how, I think it hit a few of us at about the same time.

The bottom line is Andrew and CPLR can win with anything because they work the hardest and fly the best. My thought was simply what could I do to lesson the work load while I am flying. Anyway it motivated me to get off my butt and design a couple new planes. Not to mention want to get back out and practice. I just need to locate a starter and some liquid stuff.

C
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Old 08-03-2012, 11:31 PM
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Default RE: F3A Results - SPOILER

I don't believe the new unknowns are going to make people switch to electric, specifically. Tony is right. The difference between Andrew and everyone else in the unknowns was astounding. After the first unknown I turned to Bryan and said, "well, there's no way I can beat that". He had no issue with power, no issue with getting through the unknown, and certainly didn't seem to ever be in any sort of predicament because of his choice of equipment.

I don't fly YS because I wouldn't be able to get through the pattern otherwise. Both options are viable, and both options can win, but flying YS gives me the best chance of winning. There are a number of factors at play.

Let's start with presentation. First and foremost: the sound. The sound of a YS is the sort of thing that gets overlooked by most and undervalued by the rest. I don't believe I have ever run into someone that has told me they prefer to listen to the high pitched squeal of an electric over the low rumbling tune that a YS produces. "But," you say, "judges are impartial to the power plant and the airplane". Yeah, right. Like I said, no has ever told me they don't enjoy the sound of a YS. There's nothing impartial about that. Second, the flexibility. The YS has more flexibility with presentation for two reasons: prop choice and low end torque. The two most successful pilots with the slowest presentation at the worlds (also, the two who placed 1st and 2nd!) were flying glow! Indeed, Gerhard Mayr did fly slower than both, however as we all know he's now experimenting with a slimer. Flying slow is not a fad, we are simply at the early stages of figuring out how to fly slow with authority, that is the key. Slow and close is more impressive, more impressive means more points (wait, I thought we avoided "impression judging"?). The YS motor gives me the ability to fly slow because I can prop the airplane for airspeed when I need it (into a strong headwind) but maintain throttle resolution and authority in low airspeed situations (because of the low end torque).

That flexibility with speed also means Bryan and I can have more flexibility with the airframe. A YS setup is lighter than your equivalent electric setup as well, so we can use that weight in the airframe to make it better.

On top of all that, when I'm practicing I can easily make it through 2 full sequences in a single flight which is a fantastic advantage when that horizontal eight with 4 rolls in each loop is kicking your butt. I think most people can personally attest to the fact that there is no bigger productivity killer than an interruption. I can't think of a much bigger interruption than having to land.

It's true that electrics are easier and more convenient. It's true that at times, I miss out on a day of practice because I'm trouble shooting a bad module or a broken valve spring (that was a new one this year!). Sometimes the "Allure" of electric is pretty strong; but, it never lasts long. I get that YS going again, start practicing those horizontal eights (and there's a lot more of that left, trust me), and it's like nothing else in the world exists. It's me against myself, with a soundtrack playing better than any Mozart or Beethoven I've ever heard. After all, I don't fly pattern because it's easy or convenient. I fly pattern because I love to. I assume that CPLR and Onda probably feel pretty similar.

I suppose most pattern pilots don't have that sort of passion, and that's OK. However, for me, there's no choice about it. YS, for now, is the only way to go.
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Old 08-04-2012, 01:03 AM
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Default RE: F3A Results - SPOILER

Wow i liked the way you said it.... YS is the only way to go even CPLR says this i think.... & also the people who are returning back to the YS say it..
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Old 08-04-2012, 02:19 AM
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Default RE: F3A Results - SPOILER

Hi Brett,
You may be giving the judges credit based on your own belief system.
I would advise you to be careful with that.
In truth they do their job at a fairly basic level ,for the most part.

To win you need a very very high level of technical perfection and add to that a 'style factor'.
If you get the style factor right the judges may be a little more tolerant of technical errors.
I must emphasise the 'little' in a little more tolerant.
Both are absolutely required to win

The YS on glow is a pleasant sound ,no more than that (I loved it myself), the CDI is just like any other Honda 50.
It is just another single cylinder 4 stroke engine.

The geared inrunners do have a high pitched 'whine'.

However the Neu has as much low end torque as any YS and it wont bog down if you get it a little too low down so there is never any lag. Electrics self govern to some extent.

Brenner's contra when powered by the Neu takes low end torque to a whole new level.
This aspect is what really strikes people when they see it for the first time.

As for the reduced work-load aspect.
With the contra , 'spiral slip stream' aside, P-factor is gone as is almost all the precession and 90% of the motor torque that would normally go into the airframe.

Again 'perception is reality'.

Brian

PS; So far Mayr has used the electric only at the EC's, that's after using the YS at multiple World cup events, for the slower speed capability apparently.
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Old 08-04-2012, 03:49 AM
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Default RE: F3A Results - SPOILER


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ORIGINAL: highfly3D

Wow i liked the way you said it.... YS is the only way to go even CPLR says this i think.... & also the people who are returning back to the YS say it..
However, when using an outrunner or 1:1 inrunner (Pletty Advance), the ability to do 500 flights with virtually zero maintenance and very little airframe or servo wear does have its charms.

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Old 08-04-2012, 04:18 AM
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Default RE: F3A Results - SPOILER

For those interested. Here are the unknowns from the NATS.

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