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  1. #1
    Edge 540's Avatar
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    Am I the only one who flies pattern with no mixes in their plane ??

    I was just curious if there are more people out there that fly their planes through the sequence rather than using mixes. I know that it is kind of rare on my part, however I feel that it is more challenging and " fun " to fly the plane through the entire sequence than using a crutch such as mixes. I fly everything from Small electrics to Turbine Jets, and I can honestly say that I do not fly any mixes on my planes. Who's with me !!!!

    Happy Flying !!!!
    Pattern Flyers make the best Passes !
    Vanquish 2M
    Wind 110
    Olympus
    FMS Enthusiast

  2. #2

    RE: Am I the only one who flies pattern with no mixes in their plane ??

    Come wow us at E-jets tomorrow.
    Ryan Smith

    Team JR | Thunder Power RC
    F3A Unlimited | Castle Creations

  3. #3

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    RE: Am I the only one who flies pattern with no mixes in their plane ??

    I'm with you Ryan. I flew Pattern in the 70's when transmitters didn't have all the bells and whistles, TV screens and computer functionality. Now I fly pattern maneuvers just for my own enjoyment and not at contests. I have never used "mixes", or snap-roll buttons...I don't even use dual rates...just my fingers on the control sticks.
    Best Regards
    Regards
    JC

  4. #4
    rcpattern's Avatar
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    RE: Am I the only one who flies pattern with no mixes in their plane ??

    The issue is not that you do it, it is that you aren't completely trimming your plane. It is possible to have a plane completely trimmed and no mixes, but to not trim the plane is pointless. If you and someone else are identical in skill and he works less with a trimmed plane he will win everytime. It doesn't make you better, it just makes you work harder. I, just like most others spend countless flights getting a plane trimmed. Once it is trimmed then I can concentrate on the maneuver at hand, not trying to remember which way my plane will go when I add rudder. I will add that I prefer minimum mixes and do what I can to mechanically fix things first. I never run more than a couple % on anything , but it does make a huge difference.

    Arch
    Team Futaba, Aero-Model / Hacker, Tech Aero Designs, F3A Unlimited, Team BJ Craft, Thunder Power RC, Castle Creations

  5. #5

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    RE: Am I the only one who flies pattern with no mixes in their plane ??

    Hi Arch,
    I do take time to carefully trim my planes. I use the transmitter trims until my plane will fly straight and level hands off...then I make adjustments on the pushrods until the transmitter trims are at neutral for straight and level flight. Also, I do use Exponential and keep dialing it in until the model "feels" the way I like it....usually around 30%. I would sure welcome any plane trimming tricks or methods you might share.
    Best Regards
    JC
    Regards
    JC

  6. #6
    DaveL322's Avatar
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    RE: Am I the only one who flies pattern with no mixes in their plane ??

    "Trimming" happens at many levels.

    Straight and level hands off is always the starting point. And straight and level is even better when minimal trim and subtrim is used. Does the plane stay straight and level at different airspeeds and power settings - ie, fine adjustments to CG, thrust, and incidence can have a large effect.

    Trimming also includes finding the ideal CG - the one that is the best balance for control throw authority AND groove in turbulence and promotes good snaps / spins with minimal (if any) mix needed for downlines and KE flight.

    Trimming of control throws.....getting flying rates, snap rates, and spin rates (stand alone rates, or in Flight modes) tailored to make these maneuvers as easy and consistent as possible. Controls should feel balanced - having the exact same throw and expo alone will not work as it does not compensate for various offsets (right/left thrust, downthrust, torque, etc).

    Trimming for specific maneuvers/flight regimes......basic loop tracking inside/outside, large loops, square corners - the plane should not deviate in yaw or roll.

    Vertical lines.....the planes should not deviate in yaw, pitch, or roll.

    KE flight.....the plane should not roll or pitch with rudder input....even when doing KE loops.

    The more demanding the maneuvers, the harder it is get a plane to perform them without any electronic mixing (Pmix). Any Pmix that reduces pilot workload is a good Pmix....but.....if the same state of trim can be achieved without using a Pmix, that is preferrable.

    Regards,
    Regards,

    Dave Lockhart
    Team JR Americas, Thunder Power, Castle Creations, F3A Unlimited, NeuMotors, Team Contra, Central Hobbies, Tech Aero

  7. #7

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    RE: Am I the only one who flies pattern with no mixes in their plane ??

    Word!
    Good Flying! Dana
    4449NSRC AMA

  8. #8

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    RE: Am I the only one who flies pattern with no mixes in their plane ??

    Thank you Dave. Very much appreciated. One of the things I love about RC flying...there are always new things to learn.
    Best Regards
    JC
    Regards
    JC

  9. #9

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    RE: Am I the only one who flies pattern with no mixes in their plane ??

    ORIGINAL: Edge 540

    I was just curious if there are more people out there that fly their planes through the sequence rather than using mixes. I know that it is kind of rare on my part, however I feel that it is more challenging and '' fun '' to fly the plane through the entire sequence than using a crutch such as mixes. I fly everything from Small electrics to Turbine Jets, and I can honestly say that I do not fly any mixes on my planes. Who's with me !!!!

    Happy Flying !!!!
    Which sequence do you fly?

    The model I am flying now, the Caelestia, requires a few small mixes, but even flying the relaively simple Advanced sequence I think they are of benefit. Probably a much larger benefit for Masters and virtually mandatory for FAI sequences.

    If you see how well the top guys fly at the Nats - even in Intermediate - you will want any help you can get to keep the model flying the intended line without a lot of extraneous corrections.
    Bob

  10. #10
    can773's Avatar
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    RE: Am I the only one who flies pattern with no mixes in their plane ??

    Do you drive your car with anti lock brakes and traction control turned off?
    Chad Northeast

    www.f3acanada.org

  11. #11

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    RE: Am I the only one who flies pattern with no mixes in their plane ??

    yes It didnt come as an option in 1968 Chad ...

  12. #12

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    RE: Am I the only one who flies pattern with no mixes in their plane ??

    Modern "computer radios', along with GPS guidance, and the various on-board self-correcting flight systems which are now available are blurring the line between R/C model planes and "UPVs" ...computer controlled automated drones. In my opinion, these things are contrary and detrimental to the enjoyment of FLYING a model airplane. I see no point in building a model which is going to be flown on autopilot. I greatly enjoy flying my plane. I want the controls to be in my hands...not in some computer program in the transmitter. I'm nearly 70 so by definition I'm old school. I'm not saying I'm right and everyone else is wrong...just saying how I like to fly. So now...I'll shut up.
    Best Regards to all
    Regards
    JC

  13. #13

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    RE: Am I the only one who flies pattern with no mixes in their plane ??

    No but Ifly my plane with the anti lock brakes and traction control off!
    ORIGINAL: can773

    Do you drive your car with anti lock brakes and traction control turned off?
    Intelligence is similar to a dress code. Dont attend a black tie affair wearing cutoffs and a tank top. Know your facts

  14. #14

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    RE: Am I the only one who flies pattern with no mixes in their plane ??

    What if your car pulled to the right when you stepped on the brakes? Would you be a better driver for compensating, or a better mechanic for fixing it?

    Kurt

  15. #15

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    RE: Am I the only one who flies pattern with no mixes in their plane ??

    I use two mixes: Down elevator on iddle and a little rudder when I add throttle. These are very small mixes though, in the 1-3% range
    Alex-D8

  16. #16

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    RE: Am I the only one who flies pattern with no mixes in their plane ??

    Do you mean the small amount of mix you are using is adequate or are you hesitant to use more?

    Kurt

  17. #17
    speedracerntrixie's Avatar
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    RE: Am I the only one who flies pattern with no mixes in their plane ??

    Usually when the subject of trimming comes up I find that most guys will trim and airplane to fly strait and level upright and at one airspeed. Anything the airplane does from there is considered a design flaw or just a bad charicteristic. You should see some of the looks I get when I tell someone that they can just trim the flaw out of the airplane. This applies not to just pattern airplanes, I use the same trimming methods on my pylon airplanes and yes that includes mixes.
    Of course it's true, I read it on the Internet.

  18. #18

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    RE: Am I the only one who flies pattern with no mixes in their plane ??

    Well put.

    Kurt

  19. #19

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    RE: Am I the only one who flies pattern with no mixes in their plane ??

    I would love to have a car without traction control and anti lock brakes.

  20. #20

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    RE: Am I the only one who flies pattern with no mixes in their plane ??

    Right on, me too. I learned how to fly in the 70's. No extra help then.

  21. #21
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    RE: Am I the only one who flies pattern with no mixes in their plane ??

    I see this as personal preferences, whether the correction is done through manual stick inputs or automated mix inputs.

    The important thing is though that with a good computer radio, minor imperfection of the plane can be easily fixed through mixing.
    Where facts are few, experts are many.
    Perfection is God\'\'\'\'s business.

  22. #22
    David Bathe's Avatar
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    RE: Am I the only one who flies pattern with no mixes in their plane ??

    I learned to fly in the early 70's also.
    Spent a great deal of time cutting wings, adding more or less dihedral, moving stabs and engine thrust lines up and down.
    Jez' it's a great deal easier now with comp' mixes.

    I'd guess. this is a Troll. 
    Best Regards: davidbathe.com
    Occasional Aircraft Illustrations.

  23. #23
    BHolsten's Avatar
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    RE: Am I the only one who flies pattern with no mixes in their plane ??

    I have been guilty over the years for the same thing. You just cannot fly competitively within your flight class and expect to finish first without a refined bird to fly. It really has nothing to do with raw ability to fly a plane without mixes. To me it's about having the confidence in the plane that you can fly it through any maneuver without thinking about major stick corrections,..been there done that,.. You don't want to fly a rolling loop with opposite rolls, fight the wind and the sun in your face and have to think to yourself "In practice,..I need to push more down elevator, because the plane pulls to the canopy with rudder (just an example).

    I flew pattern from 2006 to 2009, starting in Master and ending in FAI/F3A 2009. From 2006 to 2008 I never used mixes in my pattern planes, of course I flew junk. Anyway, in 2009 a friend of mine that flew a VF3 (Archie) helped me put the correct mixes in my 14MZ and it wasn't much. What a difference it made all across the board. Someone please explain creating conditions and assigning mixes to the condition, cause I am still confused and the book confuses me even more,..lol.


    Anyway,..if you are unsure of the mixing your plane may need,..seek some assistance, if your sure what you need "than gett'er done!" It's not cheating,..it's leveling up, if that makes sense.


    Anyway,..my two cents,...


    bholsten

  24. #24

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    RE: Am I the only one who flies pattern with no mixes in their plane ??


    ORIGINAL: BHolsten
    It's not cheating,.., if that makes sense.
    Yea but it should be. I'd love to see the rules amended to flat out ban any mixing in competition.

    rrragman
    \"Half a bee, philosophically, must ipso facto half not be. But half the bee has got to be, vis-*-vis its entity - d\'\'you see?

  25. #25

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    RE: Am I the only one who flies pattern with no mixes in their plane ??

    Your right however your also wrong. Most old school pattern fliers used the fingers not thumb method to fly. With the advent of computer radios the stick bangers joined the elite club of the pattern fraternity. What this caused was the crash of pattern flying. Without computer assistance how many people would be into large scale 3D? I at one tme flew pattern and still have one. Now I'm into scale and use mixing for quite a few functions.


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