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Let's gasify a Vanquish

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Old 11-05-2012, 08:30 PM
  #51
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Default RE: Let's gasify a Vanquish



The front holes needed covering. A layer of medium silkspan works fine and adds practically no weight. The side hole is there for the ignition wire

The exhaust louvers on the bottom of the cowl are easy to cut and shape with some help from a monokote iron. Simply heat and bend. That should be all that's needed to get engine heat out of the cowl. A slight negative will be created by the raised flaps thuspulling the air out. A large amount of exiting area is not required; with this type of treatment the old 3:1 rule of thumb for exit to entry area is not necessary.

Talking of cutting, I re-discovered X-Acto saw blades. These make hinge slotting really simple. They are the same width and thickness as a #11 blade, just perfect for Radio South and other ca hinges. Of course they have other uses

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Old 11-05-2012, 08:34 PM
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Default RE: Let's gasify a Vanquish

Once the lines are drawn on the fuse side marking both wing and stab incidences, a layer of clear mylar is ironed on to protect the lines. Magic marker doesn't survive the sun long term so I hope to have the thing fully wrung out by the time they fade away. With firewall at 90 degrees (no downthrust), the tail needed to be raised 1/16" from my bench, hence the misalignment on the front stab locator. No biggie......
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Old 11-07-2012, 07:16 AM
  #53
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Default RE: Let's gasify a Vanquish

BTW- seeing how the wing location pins are carbon tubing which will ride inside aluminum plates, I opted to change the aluminum out in favor of phenolic sheet.

Carbon is great stuff but abrasion resistance is not one of its strengths. Carbon behaves itself better riding on plastic rather than a metallic surface. For anyone working through wing set-up of the VQ, let me suggest that you either apply a nylon shrink tube over the carbon and enlarge the aluminum hole, or do as I did, make new plates from phenolic sheet and leave the carbon alone

You know, I don't understand why so many guys complained about the wing adjusters (the afforementioned plates). The set-up was really simple to actually do, once the alignment lines were marked on the fuse sides.
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Old 11-08-2012, 09:28 PM
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Default RE: Let's gasify a Vanquish

Front and rear phenolic adjusters

Reshaped the gear legs as shown; right was the original shape and left is the reshaped leg. Shaved 1/3 the weight, down to 42 grams. The gear is very strong at 42 grams and overall shape and rear rake are attractive too, so I am making a new mold for these.

The original white pants an left are a bit on the heavy side at 26 grams each. The narrower pants on the right come out of my mold with hard points built in. Alignment is in the mold; weight is a tidy 14 grams ready for paint. Throw in the aluminum axles I've developed for the pant hard points and the weight savings really add up.....

BTW- don't you just hate wheel rattle after a few dozen flights? It seems no matter what you do, you just can't quiet the beasties. Well, I may have discovered a solution. Need a bunch more flights on the wheel set-up to make sure but it's looking good so far
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Old 11-08-2012, 09:31 PM
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Default RE: Let's gasify a Vanquish

The pipe tunnel and new engine mount box are painted, Klass Kote epoxy. Good stuff

The spark plug cap fits inside the cowl just right with about 1/8" clearance. Like it was made for the smaller gassies

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Old 11-09-2012, 03:23 PM
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Default RE: Let's gasify a Vanquish

good luck with the maiden!

tony
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Old 11-11-2012, 08:04 PM
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Default RE: Let's gasify a Vanquish

Oh yeah, nice job! cant wait to hear how it works out too!
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Old 11-11-2012, 09:39 PM
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: Shimano

Oh yeah, nice job! cant wait to hear how it works out too!
Thanks fellas....The maiden had to wait for the gear mold to be built. If weather holds, I should have the beastie flying next weekend. Other than gear install, it's ready...

Took wing measurements last night; the panels are a scant 420 square inches each. Adding the area covered by the fuse, I only get around 960 square all up. Mine is pretty light so it should be okay with the small wing.The stab is slightly heavier at 10 ozs RTF than I like to seebut not terribly so. CG should come out pretty close nevertheless

I've been keeping an eye out on the electric forum and been hearing some electric versions are coming out a bit porky. I'm not sure what the guys are doing....must be using heavy batteries I guess.
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Old 11-13-2012, 01:43 PM
  #59
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Default RE: Let's gasify a Vanquish

so when all is said and done, are you going to sell all of the modded pieces to those of us without your building skills???

everything you've done looks great!

tony
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Old 11-13-2012, 07:31 PM
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: vatechguy3

so when all is said and done, are you going to sell all of the modded pieces to those of us without your building skills???

everything you've done looks great!

tony
Tony,

Thanks again! I don't have plans to produce the phenolic wing adjusters, but these are straight forward to reproduce.

You may buy an engine specific mount from Hyde. I don't plan to build these for guys, but maybe I should. Hyde's patent has run out so the concept is in the public domain. I know my price would be half of his.....I could be coaxed into that; a definite maybe.....

I've done some gear and pants for guys in the past. Also cowlings and canopies. BUT, I probably will not mold the cowl and canopy of the VQ; I don't need any more weight savings.....I know the stock parts are a bit on the heavy side and we can reduce weight there by a third, but again, I don't have the need and don't want to overexpose myself.

One thing I've given some thought to is an improved exhaust louver set-up for the cowling.IF I redo the finish in silkspan and dope this winter, I will mold the improved louvers too and add them to the cowl

The modified gear and pants will be availableon a limited basis based on guys' need. The wheel and axle set-up will be identical to the one I've described elsewhere. It's my own design and it's the best. I'll post photos when ready, especially the RTF weight.

BTW- I heard that you may be getting aused electrified VQ and may be doing a gas conversion too. I hear very good things on the DLE35RA. The PTE which is what I'm going to use, is a hit or miss proposition....some have had good luck but most have not. The OS33GT is likely the most powerful set-up, but let me say up front that that much power is completely unnecessary in the gassified version. The plane is less than 10 pounds afterall.....

PM me please...maybe I can help with some things
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Old 11-14-2012, 03:20 PM
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Default RE: Let's gasify a Vanquish

pms are down

yeah i was talking with danamania about buying his VQ, but he never got back to me with a price.

do you know of another one for sale? i have thought of trying pattern, but the only was for me is gas! don't want to mess with big battries.
i would appreciate any and all the help!

tony
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Old 11-17-2012, 03:18 AM
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Default RE: Let's gasify a Vanquish


Quote:
ORIGINAL: vatechguy3

pms are down

yeah i was talking with danamania about buying his VQ, but he never got back to me with a price.

do you know of another one for sale? i have thought of trying pattern, but the only was for me is gas! don't want to mess with big battries.
i would appreciate any and all the help!

tony
Hi Tony, sorry for the delay. I PM'ed you with prices. Let me know if you have any questions. Thank you.

Hi Matt, are you going to maiden today or tomorrow? Please let me know as I would love to join you for that. Good luck if I miss out!


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Old 11-17-2012, 06:41 AM
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pm'd you back dana.

hopefully the maiden will go off without a hitch.

good luck!

tony
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Old 11-17-2012, 11:52 AM
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Default RE: Let's gasify a Vanquish

matt, are you using an ignition battery or are you using a y off the flight pack?

tony
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Old 11-17-2012, 07:19 PM
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Default RE: Let's gasify a Vanquish

also, what throttle servo are you using?

tony
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Old 11-17-2012, 11:02 PM
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: vatechguy3

matt, are you using an ignition battery or are you using a y off the flight pack?

tony
Tony,

I suppose you can call it Y off the flight pack of sorts. I use Ed Alt's IBECs. Tech Aero is the company. It eliminates need for a second orignition battery unless you want to use a second battery as back up for the radio. The IBEC is basically a remote switch that connects the CDI to the RX buss. You simply plug it into a spare channel such as retracts. The CDI is then armed remotely by flipping a lever on the TX. Very handy; highly recommended.

I ran into a snafu tonight trying the get the equipment centered and ready. Probably rushing a bit to get it done so I need to back off. I probably will not maiden it tomorrow.

The landing gear came in a little lighter than I expected. 56 grams each side complete with pants and axles installed, or a hair under 2 ounces each side. Should be strong enough and if it ain't, well I have a good mold and can make another

Throttle servo is an old JR 4031 analog servo. Plenty good enough....
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Old 11-18-2012, 04:57 AM
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how much trouble did you have getting the header/pipe inside the fuse but under the landing gear mount?

tony
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Old 11-18-2012, 02:43 PM
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If you look at the early photo shots you will see how that was done. It was much much easier to just open the belly up and create a tunnel for the pipe. The header fits nicely inside the fuse belly. The pipe and header are assembled off the plane and then slipped into position from the tunnel as an assembled unit. The header needed a little bending to accommodate the right thrust but again not a big deal. A little coaxing with a torch and it was back on center.

The pipe tunnel required cutting the belly side of the fuse formers down to the cross bracing but didn't cut the cross bracing. The Mintor pipe is about 2 1/4" in diameter so about 3/8" isn't fully enclosed. There's ample room under the gear mounting block to slide the header in place.

I played with the PTE this afternoon. I got it going quickly enough coaxing it with the Dynatronand immediately encountered some of the issues I've read about this engine. The plastic reed housing was leaking against the crankcase. The engine ran somewhat erratically so that may have been one problem contibuting to the erratic run.....Only ran 5 ozs gas through it but I could tell the 19x10 XOAR will work fine on the piped set-up. Good break in prop at least......

Most importantly, the fuse didn't experience any abnormal stresses or vibes eventhough it's very lightly built. I was pleasantly surprised to see the engine not shake that muchalthough it wasn't running optimally. It idled with minimal shake too. As the engine breaks in everything should improve
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Old 11-18-2012, 05:48 PM
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thats good to hear. whats the fix for the leaking reed block? a little sanding with a block to even out the surface?

was looking around for exhaust setups this afternoon. looked at a KS canister (model 79-5, 235mm X 55mm and 165g), a KS tuned pipe (model 1030-5 B, 625mm X 55mm and 230g) and an ES composite tuned pipe (es40g, 610mm X 51 and 110g).

opinions on those possiblities and performance envelope? what prop sizes should i be looking at? biggest question, how important is the mid-range in a pattern application? the KS canister is a 1/4 wave tune, so it has a much more smooth mid-range.

also, what spinner size do i need? will probably get a pete's model carbon fiber spinner. i used them on my 40% planes and i've always been happy with them. unless you have a lighter option?

thanks
tony
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Old 11-19-2012, 12:17 AM
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Default RE: Let's gasify a Vanquish

Hello Matt

Very happy to have informations about PTE36.
Friend of mine fitted a new canister with KS 55 pipe exhaust. We are waiting good wheather to try it.
Is your engine fixed in front of ?
Claude
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Old 11-19-2012, 07:27 AM
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I have a piece of plate glass I use for polishing surfaces flat. I lay a piece of 320 to 400 stock on it with a few drops oil and work the surfaces flat. I also did the same to the crankcase, reed cageand carb body. The inside face of the reed cage is the only area I couldn't get to. If I remember and have my camera handy, I'll take a few photos and post....

It should seal completely but we'll see. I'll run it again tomorrow and report. I should be able to lean the needles properly.

I hope to do the maiden tomorrow if engine works right. It will be very interesting to fly a VQ at10 lbs. Both of the other VQs I've flown were 11 pounds give or take
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Old 11-19-2012, 07:48 AM
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Hi Claude,

I haven't decided which direction to take for fixing the nose of the engine. There are acouple options I'm considering so itwill float for the time being. But having run that way before I know it is not the best way. It affects the flight envelope considerably....

I have never run any small gas engine in an airplane that was hard mounted. I soft mount all of them but since each has its own mounting footprint, a custom mount is made for each set-up. That's why I stated early on that one should learn to make his own soft mounts such that he may accommodate which ever engine he wants to use. But I'm sure Merle Hyde would love to sell custom mounts for the emerging small gassie applications.

The only time I hard mounted one of these was for some bench running which I do on my back yard deck. Well, the transmitted vibration was severe enough through the deck floor to buzz my feet so I decided right then never to hard mount one of these again especially in a light plane. So even my bench running now is done on the soft mounts I make......That's been my experience but your experience may be different

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Old 11-19-2012, 09:38 PM
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Some of the last photos of the conversion....

The white coloration on the wing tube is microballoons/epoxy to achieve the right fit in the wing sockets. Original fit was juuuust too loose for my liking....

I added a set of screws to hold the canopy down and keep it from vibrating too badly. Canopies make a racket when they are bouncing all over the place.....

The ally stand offs on the mount are McMaster Carr issue, 2" long for 8-32 bolts. I go smaller on the mounting bolts than is typical for these gassies because the soft mount allows that.

The tank is only 8 ozs. It holds enough gas for about 10 minutes. The yellow loop around the tank cap is plastic tubing that's easily formed with some heat from a monokote heat gun. It's a convenient place to locate the vent control which keeps gas from spilling on the plane. Tank and fittings are things I sell along with the PolyU fuel line. Weight savings on the tank set-up is considerable over other types.......

The spinner is too large for this plane but I had the holes drilled already and didn't feel like screwing around with the stock VQ spinner.............

The engine close up at the spark plug shows how I treat the plug caps to keep them from coming off. I lose the spring clip in favor of a thin walled silicone tube. It's been working great.

A relief loop on the plug cable is a good idea if you have the room. It worked nicely in this plane..............

Note the mounting tabs on the CH ignition module. Simple, effective gromets already built in..........

I think the little platform that EF puts into the VQ right over the wingtube makes a perfect spot for the RX and battery. I have to have access to the battery because it is lipo and I don't charge lipos in the plane. I velcroRX and battery in and add a second strip of velcro around the battery. All in all, a nice and tidy set-up, don't you agree?

Final weight came in at a porky 10# 5ozs.

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Old 11-20-2012, 09:15 AM
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Looks great.
Just need a flight report now!

Tony
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Old 11-20-2012, 10:47 AM
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Hello Matt

Great job !
May be a video, please ?
Claude
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