RC Pattern Flying Discuss all topics pertaining to RC Pattern Flying in this forum.

Let's gasify a Vanquish

Reply
Old 11-20-2012, 09:09 PM
  #76
MTK
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Whippany, NJ
Posts: 5,386
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Let's gasify a Vanquish


Quote:
ORIGINAL: vatechguy3

Looks great.
Just need a flight report now!

Tony
Thank you.....4 flights today. No issues to report.....The model needed about 0.2 degrees positive on the stab to go along with the 0.3 degrees positive on the wing. CG is very close to ideal. Knife edge tracking was truly uneventful except I have a bit too much rudder authority and need to tone it down. It tracks dead true both in roll and pitch and both top rudders which was a surprise. It's been a long time since I flew one off the board that didn't need some sort of manipulation to get easy knife edges

I have too much throw in elevators and ailerons and will tone that down tomorrow. And will start to check for the essoteric flying envelope that pattern demands

The engine has more than enough beans on the Mintor 38cc pipe and 19x10 XOAR woodie. I didn't push it of course but it was terrific stuff to see this really cheap engine behave that way. Heck I think I paid around 265$ for the PTE36R. Not equal to the OS33GT but it doesn't have to be on a light plane likethis one

Landings were feather light. The gear mods are keepers. The light gear are much more flexible yet strong enough, at least until I realy dork a landing or take off. That damped flex, like shock absorbers, causes the plane to just glue itself to the ground when it touches. A positive result all around and another good experiment

Time to move back to my main project, completing the Delta.
MTK is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2012, 04:58 AM
  #77
J Lachowski
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Bridgewater, NJ
Posts: 931
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Let's gasify a Vanquish

Matt, next time you fly it, have Augie video it. The club has a video camera.
J Lachowski is online now  
Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2012, 05:40 AM
  #78
rcpattern
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Great Mills, MD
Posts: 2,860
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Let's gasify a Vanquish

Very nice Matt. I knew you would pull this off successfully. Glad to see it flies the same as the electric one I did the thread on.

Arch
rcpattern is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2012, 08:16 AM
  #79
MTK
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Whippany, NJ
Posts: 5,386
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Let's gasify a Vanquish

Thanks Arch,

It's going to be a good plane. Very capable. Just need to get the engine broken in and wring the plane out . So no time to waste....off to flying it

Joe, hopefully Augie can video it today. We'll see
MTK is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2012, 12:24 AM
  #80
papaone
 
papaone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Salon, FRANCE
Posts: 1,035
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Let's gasify a Vanquish

Hello Matt

Which quality oil and % volume do you put in the fuel ?
Claude
papaone is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2012, 01:09 AM
  #81
KenChoo
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 306
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Let's gasify a Vanquish

Hi Matt,

Just checking to see I'm reading this right...0.2 positive on stab and 0.3 positive on the wing is 0.1 positive relative from the wing to the stab? That's surprising as it's quite different from what others have on theirs in the electric version, and I'm just curious why that might be? Appreciate your thoughts on this... Cheers.

Ken
KenChoo is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2012, 11:48 AM
  #82
Jetdesign
 
Jetdesign's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Mason, OH
Posts: 7,050
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Let's gasify a Vanquish

Hi Matt,

Is the PTE, or even the OS, fairly user friendly for a first time gasser? Any kind of comparison to an OS 2-stroke glow? Just curious for now...
Jetdesign is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2012, 03:07 PM
  #83
MTK
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Whippany, NJ
Posts: 5,386
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Let's gasify a Vanquish


Quote:
ORIGINAL: papaone

Hello Matt

Which quality oil and % volume do you put in the fuel ?
Claude
Claude,

I've used the same mixture since I re-started flying petrol, just about 3 years ago. Early on I used regular 87 Octane auotomobile gasoline and chainsaw/weedwacker oil at 30:1. Oil was purchased at the local Home Depot. I did that for a couple gallons before switching. Hated the stench of autogas so I looked for an alternative petrol

I met up with long time noted modeler Jersey JimMartin 3 years ago and on his recommendation I switched the oil to BelRay MC-1 motorcycle racing synthetic. Jim is a long time motorcycle racing enthusiast and expert engine mechanic and in fact his son was a racing Champion years ago. Jim knows his engines and better yet, knows the oils that work best....MC-1 works absolutely great.

The DLE55's (2), SAP 30's (2), ZDZ 40, Mintor 38, OS33GT's (2), now the PTE 36R, and the BME58xtreme, have all used the same mixture on Jim's suggestions-Avgas 100LL and MC-1 at 50:1 ratio. The oil comes in 12.8 oz bottles which produce the desired 50:1 mix when mixed with 5 gallons petrol. It's likely that in Europe the packaging is different since you guys are dealing with liters, thereforemaking ratios easy .

EDIT....forgot to mention that I use the same fuel for break in as well as after break in. Nobody has shown tangible data that one type of mix is better at break in over another. And since my engines simply run and run, there's nopoint in changing this process...
MTK is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2012, 03:31 PM
  #84
MTK
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Whippany, NJ
Posts: 5,386
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Let's gasify a Vanquish


Quote:
ORIGINAL: KenChoo

Hi Matt,

Just checking to see I'm reading this right...0.2 positive on stab and 0.3 positive on the wing is 0.1 positive relative from the wing to the stab? That's surprising as it's quite different from what others have on theirs in the electric version, and I'm just curious why that might be? Appreciate your thoughts on this... Cheers.

Ken
Ken,

Don't really know what others have done, sorry. I don't follow anyone's set-ups since I can't be certain of how they make their measurements. I make mine on agranite top with a height gauge and make my measurements in 0.001" increments. It's way overkill but in the end I know whatIhave, with precision and accuracy.

Electric, glow, gas, rubber bands,doesn't matter one bit. My Vanquish has zero down/up thrust, 2 degrees right and could use a bit more, +0.3 on wing (no offset between left and right panels) and +0.2 approximately on the stab. I say approximately because it was a quick reset of the adjusters at the field on the first day out. It's approximately15 thousandths positive at the stab LE (about 1/64") but I have not rechecked with the height gauge. One should understand that 0.015" on the LE is actually 0.03" over the root span of the stab which I think is 11". You may want to do the trig........

Inverted flight cleaned up nicely after the stab adjustment. With proper amount of toprudder there is hardly a hint of movement in knife edge. When lots of rudder was applied there was a slight tuck to belly but then again I was well into a knife edge loop
MTK is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2012, 03:58 PM
  #85
MTK
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Whippany, NJ
Posts: 5,386
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Let's gasify a Vanquish


Quote:
ORIGINAL: gaRCfield

Hi Matt,

Is the PTE, or even the OS, fairly user friendly for a first time gasser? Any kind of comparison to an OS 2-stroke glow? Just curious for now...
OS is the better choice by far but to make a transition from glow or other, a Dynatron or other really hi tork startermakes life simpler. I've run most glow set-ups, 2 stroke and4 stroke, for many many years before the switch to gas. Today's gas set-ups are simpler and more user friendly, much more reliable,much much more powerful than the 2 stroke glows we ran in the past and sound the same when soft mounted and propped properly on pipes. Weight is 20% higher on the engine/CDI only, all else is the same pretty much. The plane will be heavier by about6 ounces over an RX set-up for example, but is a wash over a YS175/CDI

In the case of the OS33, it puts out similar tork to the YS170-175 throughout the throttle curve. Top end favors the OS but we don't really care about that in pattern; they all have more than enough top end power and we just don't fly there. The PTE doesn't compare after 2 hours of operation, eventho it has the edge on cubes. To be fair I am still learning this powerplant and may not have it propped quite right yet.

Vibes to the airframe are about the same as any other well behaved 2 stroke and far less than the 170-175 4 strokes. In fact, I am quite pleased with how this super lightbalsa model is shaking at idle. It shakes far less than my glass/foam Aesthesis. But that's not saying much actually since the glass fuse I used was a Brio fuse. It wasn't that well made.....

That's about it on the important points.....
MTK is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2012, 09:28 AM
  #86
papaone
 
papaone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Salon, FRANCE
Posts: 1,035
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Let's gasify a Vanquish

Hello Matt

Which APC propeller do you advice for DLE 30 ?
It's for a pattern Passion as shown on this picture
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Zx72297.jpg
Views:	107
Size:	81.2 KB
ID:	1823365  
papaone is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2012, 11:55 AM
  #87
Jetdesign
 
Jetdesign's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Mason, OH
Posts: 7,050
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Let's gasify a Vanquish

Thanks Matt.
Jetdesign is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2012, 02:54 PM
  #88
KenChoo
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 306
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Let's gasify a Vanquish

Thanks for your explanation, Matt!

Cheers,
Ken
KenChoo is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2012, 10:24 PM
  #89
MTK
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Whippany, NJ
Posts: 5,386
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Let's gasify a Vanquish

You're both welcome!

Claude, I don't know what kind of load the DLE30 can haul....Everything I've read says to start with something like an 18x8 and break it in first. That's probably a good place to start.

On a canister I would expect the engine to be able to haul a 19x8, maybe a 19x10. You're going to have to experiment....

BTW- I decided to get a DLE35RA and see for myself if that engine is equal to the OS.I believe the rear exhaust header I have on the PTE will be a drop in fit. I will probably fit it into the Vanquish. But that's likely one of next year's projects. Winter is upon us and we actually had snow today...just a dusting but maybe a portend of things to come??
MTK is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-2012, 06:48 AM
  #90
vatechguy3
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Yorktown, VA
Posts: 1,000
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Let's gasify a Vanquish

What length header did you end up with?

Tony
vatechguy3 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-2012, 07:15 AM
  #91
griff7166
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Weaver, AL
Posts: 92
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Let's gasify a Vanquish

Hello I am Matt Griffitt

I am a custom Motorcycle builder and ama Pattern flyer . I should be able to build a alum header pipe for less than 20 bucks and a thin walled expansion chamber cheap as well. check out my work at KMF-Industy.com


Matt G
griff7166 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-2012, 09:09 AM
  #92
Jetdesign
 
Jetdesign's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Mason, OH
Posts: 7,050
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Let's gasify a Vanquish

I was trying to figure out what my next (non-pattern) plane would be and haven't found it yet, but now I am thinking it will be about the gas experience and am pretty psyched! Will be after I get the Integral up and running of course Thanks again Matt!
Jetdesign is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-2012, 02:42 PM
  #93
prophecypilot
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Kenly, NC
Posts: 115
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Let's gasify a Vanquish

I'm running a DLE 30 on a Focus 2 with the OS RX pipe and the APC 18.1x10 performs better than the plane did with the RX in it.
prophecypilot is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 11-29-2012, 09:02 PM
  #94
MTK
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Whippany, NJ
Posts: 5,386
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Let's gasify a Vanquish

A couple shots of the revised landing gear. 158 grams RTF, painted. Compares pretty wellto any other gear I believe. I have this molded so if anyone is interested in shedding some weight, I am making them available on a limited basis. PM me
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Sq47590.jpg
Views:	28
Size:	231.1 KB
ID:	1825081   Click image for larger version

Name:	To44866.jpg
Views:	35
Size:	253.8 KB
ID:	1825082  
MTK is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2012, 06:07 PM
  #95
MTK
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Whippany, NJ
Posts: 5,386
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Let's gasify a Vanquish

Claude, BTW, where did you get that back-to-center header? It looks very compact and will work fine with the OS33GT. Same exhaust dimensions
MTK is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2012, 07:12 PM
  #96
edwarda10pilot
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Seguin, TX
Posts: 485
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Let's gasify a Vanquish

Matt:

Try this site

http://www.f3alorenz.de/index-motoren.htm

I used to get my headers (as well as wing adjusters, control horns, etc) from them for the OS 160's. The quality is very good and I think the performance of the 160 headers was better than the Hatori.

Ed
edwarda10pilot is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2012, 02:06 AM
  #97
papaone
 
papaone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Salon, FRANCE
Posts: 1,035
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Let's gasify a Vanquish

Hello Matt

I asked my friend but I think this is this piece :
http://www.sdshobby.net/New-Designed...l#.ULsm8tXYyWo

Claude
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Vt56775.jpg
Views:	57
Size:	89.5 KB
ID:	1825693   Click image for larger version

Name:	Ez82770.jpg
Views:	53
Size:	89.2 KB
ID:	1825694   Click image for larger version

Name:	Hn25341.jpg
Views:	55
Size:	154.7 KB
ID:	1825695  
papaone is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2012, 04:01 PM
  #98
MTK
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Whippany, NJ
Posts: 5,386
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Let's gasify a Vanquish


Quote:
ORIGINAL: papaone

Hello Matt

I asked my friend but I think this is this piece :
http://www.sdshobby.net/New-Designed...l#.ULsm8tXYyWo

Claude
Thanks Claude.

I couldn't see if the header alone was available. Do you know if it is?

BTW- we finally put a video together of the gassified Vanquish, http://youtu.be/NvzPkbHACzM
The Mintor aluminum pipe is abit louder than the ESComposites but it appears to work well enoug in developing fair amount of HP. In the video I gave credit to the wrong enginemanufacturer. No the engine is a PTE 36R not an SPE. Apologies for any confusion
MTK is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2012, 08:20 PM
  #99
Jetstream
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Peachtree City, GA
Posts: 39
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Let's gasify a Vanquish

Very nice! I am impressed on how smooth it seemed to run, judging by vibes on airframe....smooth indeed. Keep up the great work and thank you for posting all of your findings for people like me who love this type of experimenting.
Jetstream is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2012, 04:02 AM
  #100
vatechguy3
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Yorktown, VA
Posts: 1,000
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Let's gasify a Vanquish

nice video!

not alot of vibes from the engine at all.

is that with or without a nose ring?

tony
vatechguy3 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 01:29 PM.