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  1. #101
    papaone's Avatar
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    RE: Let's gasify a Vanquish

    ello Matt

    Great video.
    I don't know if the header alone is available.
    Claude

  2. #102
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    RE: Let's gasify a Vanquish


    ORIGINAL: Jetstream

    Very nice! I am impressed on how smooth it seemed to run, judging by vibes on airframe....smooth indeed. Keep up the great work and thank you for posting all of your findings for people like me who love this type of experimenting.
    Thank you....The wood airframe definitely helps there. Just a little extra 3/32" wood was all I added to the front bay in the fuselage. I showed that earlier in one of the photos

    I don't have a nose ring in the cowlas yet. I haven't seen any issues yet with maintaining flight path. My mount is somewhat stiffer than usual on purpose, to see if I could get away without one, at least for now. As the mount's rubber breaks in, I may have to add a nose ring.

    The Mintor aluminum pipe is a little too noisy for my taste. I may change that pipe to the EScomposites 30G or a carbon canisterat some point. The exposed pipe doesn't help there either. I will probably stuff the stinger area with some steel wool to help attenuate some of that noise. The stingeris a bolt-on tube and easily comesoff the Mintor pipe.

    I'm looking for the mellow, low toned sound that my OS33GT/ESComposites 40G makes in my Aesthesis. That set-up is very subdued. We've taken some video of that also and hope to have it posted at some point.... I have to give credit to my friend Auggie for assisting with all the videotaking, editing and posting. Thanks Auggie!
    Regards,
    MattK
    (Rcmaster199@aol.com)

  3. #103
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    RE: Let's gasify a Vanquish


    ORIGINAL: vatechguy3

    nice video!

    not alot of vibes from the engine at all.

    is that with or without a nose ring?

    tony
    Tony,

    Thanks...No nose ring at least not yet. It isn't necessary at this point. Maybe next Spring....If I do that it will need to be a 2 piece affair for this engine. But not all engines need it to be a two piece.

    For example, the DLE35RA has the same diameter for the prop drive washer as the case front bearing boss. A 1-piece ring will simply slide in from the front..... Straight forward!!
    Regards,
    MattK
    (Rcmaster199@aol.com)

  4. #104

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    RE: Let's gasify a Vanquish

    would the nose ring need to attach to the mount, or just screw into the front of the cowl?

    tony

  5. #105
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    RE: Let's gasify a Vanquish


    ORIGINAL: vatechguy3

    would the nose ring need to attach to the mount, or just screw into the front of the cowl?

    tony
    The nose ring should attach to the cowl. Except the soft mounts may not need the rings.

    I will be flying the plane this year withthe DLE35RA up front. I have the set-up readyto go

    Tony your mount and coupler are ready too
    Regards,
    MattK
    (Rcmaster199@aol.com)

  6. #106
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    RE: Let's gasify a Vanquish

    Please share your experience with the DLE 35RA compared to the OS Max 33GT. I'm hoping to start a Jeff Carder F3A Lightning which I think will come out about 5 KG. Sure like the idea of a rear exhaust.

    Have you any experience with the Hatori #2301 header per http://www.hatori-models.co.jp/HP3/air-e.html ? Vertical offset is 25mm; I like the way they have a gusset bracing the down pipe. BTW, these can be acquired from Richard Sabin, Hatori USA, hatoriusa@aol.com .
    \"FLYING IS MY LIFE\"

  7. #107
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    RE: Let's gasify a Vanquish

    I use the #2301 header on the OS33 and add a 4 1/2" extension to it. I show the set-up somewhere in the photos

    The DLE35RA takes the same header FROMMACS PIPES (and not the hatori 2 piece unit), as used on the 140RX. They also show a new header for the 35; but I have and use the 140RX header on the 35, with opened up mounting holes to M5

    The 35RA has enough power for the Vanquish and most any current 2 meter pattern model. It's not as powerful as the OS but the extra power isn't necessary. Personally I prefer the OS but it's your call.
    Regards,
    MattK
    (Rcmaster199@aol.com)

  8. #108
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    RE: Let's gasify a Vanquish

    Ed Skorepa of ESComposites sent me several carbon canisters to test and report back. I've got two of them tested so far on the DLE35RA / Vanquish

    The last one was incredibly quiet turning an 18.5 x 9.5 wide blade APC. This size prop works pretty well on gas engines that have screwy screw installations. The hub is large enough to allow drilling
    Regards,
    MattK
    (Rcmaster199@aol.com)

  9. #109

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    RE: Let's gasify a Vanquish

    The prop hub conversion for the DLE35 is great, replacing the screwy screws from the prop shaft, making it a single prop nut assembly again.

  10. #110
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    RE: Let's gasify a Vanquish


    ORIGINAL: MTK
    The 35RA has enough power for the Vanquish and most any current 2 meter pattern model. It's not as powerful as the OS but the extra power isn't necessary. Personally I prefer the OS but it's your call.
    Having flown a gallon through the DLE now, I am going to take that comment back.Extra power ofthe right typedoes matter....

    The DLE is being run with smaller props and tends to rev a bit more. It just doesn'tdevelop the torque of the OS so it can't turn larger props the way we need. The higher rpm in turn create a bit more speed than desired. That's a big deal in pattern if you want a nice slower, easier to show presentation....Higher speed is the wrong direction

    The Vanquish has rather small wings (400 squares each) so they don't help much in slowing the plane down.

    Throttle curve adjustments will continue until it feels more comfortable and possibly a bit slower. We'll see how it does after full break in, maybe another couple gallons. It should be able to turn a 20x8

    BTW- one of the canisters is working well on the engine.Good quietness with very good transition. I had a different canister on it last week, one intended for the Webra 160, and that one developed too much back pressure making the engine hard to tune. But it was so quiet it was almost whispering.
    Regards,
    MattK
    (Rcmaster199@aol.com)

  11. #111
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    RE: Let's gasify a Vanquish


    ORIGINAL: Shimano

    The prop hub conversion for the DLE35 is great, replacing the screwy screws from the prop shaft, making it a single prop nut assembly again.
    I looked at one of those adapters but sent it back whenI realized it weighed twice what the 4 screws did
    Regards,
    MattK
    (Rcmaster199@aol.com)

  12. #112
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    RE: Let's gasify a Vanquish

    Hello

    Yesterday I saw a pattern equiped with DLE35R with exhaust tuned pipe MVVS.
    It's very very powerfull, plane climbs indefinitely. Starting hand, no constraint number of flights or flight time, fuel cheap.
    It's awesome.
    Claude
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  13. #113

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    RE: Let's gasify a Vanquish


    ORIGINAL: MTK


    ORIGINAL: Shimano

    The prop hub conversion for the DLE35 is great, replacing the screwy screws from the prop shaft, making it a single prop nut assembly again.
    I looked at one of those adapters but sent it back whenI realized it weighed twice what the 4 screws did
    Ihadnt really considered the weight of it. Great point.

    So at the moment you feel the OS 33 would be a better choice for a pattern application?

    Iwonder, have you thought about installing Frank Bowman rings in the DLE 35? Maybe that might bump up the torque enough ot swing the bit larger props, and slow the speed down?
    Maybe you have, and Imissed reading it.


  14. #114
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    RE: Let's gasify a Vanquish

    The piped OS 33 GT isvery very close topar with the YS170 and 175 regarding torque. Same props, higher rpm on the top end (which means greater top end power than YSs) which we don't really need, but outstanding middle where the YSs have made their bones. Right now I think it is the only one with the right kind of power for top level Pattern. I have not tested RCGF32's but Ed has one and at some point he'll have to give itto me to play with. OS has gotten about everything right in that small package out of the gate. The only way it could be better is if it were rear exhaust.....

    I am running a Bowman ring in the DLE. It's a good ring, seals properly,but it can't create power. I am only running a canister on the DLE right now. A pipe is on its way so I'll get apples apples comparison at some point.

    Crashed the Vanquish today tho so it's gonna be a while before I get to the pipe experiment. I ran the fool thing outta gas having too much fun. DLE died on the downwind leg on landing and with the strong head wind we had today,VQ had little chance. Crashed it behind the tree line luckily or it would have been a total loss.

    The landing gear mounting block snapped into two pieces. Hell, the mounting block is not poorly designed or constructed, as sooo many of the electric guys haveyelled and screamedabout....the problem was me; I'm not supposed to run it outta gas low and slow



    ORIGINAL: Shimano


    So at the moment you feel the OS 33 would be a better choice for a pattern application?

    Iwonder, have you thought about installing Frank Bowman rings in the DLE 35? Maybe that might bump up the torque enough ot swing the bit larger props, and slow the speed down?
    Maybe you have, and Imissed reading it.

    Regards,
    MattK
    (Rcmaster199@aol.com)

  15. #115

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    RE: Let's gasify a Vanquish

    Hi Matt,
    Would you be kind enough to re-post a link to the thread where you detailed the making of your mount.
    I know you put up a link some time ago but I cannot find it and a friend is anxious to look it up.
    Thank you.

    Brian

  16. #116
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    RE: Let's gasify a Vanquish


    ORIGINAL: serious power

    Hi Matt,
    Would you be kind enough to re-post a link to the thread where you detailed the making of your mount.
    I know you put up a link some time ago but I cannot find it and a friend is anxious to look it up.
    Thank you.

    Brian
    Hi Brian,

    Take a look here http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_62..._3/key_/tm.htm. Since I wrote this, the main improvements are that I don't use or need the blind nuts to secure the studs any longer. I just add a small ply block behind the studs, thread and epoxy the studs directly to the wood.I use flat heads as studs and chamfer the screw holes to accept the heads for a flush result.

    Used to add small pieces of rubber between the fron and back rings to keep the faces from slapping at idle. I started using one of the two velcro sides between the faces and I think it work a little better.

    When prepping the rubber I remove rubber surface glaze with a dremmel sanding drum exposing fresh rubber. It really adds to the joint strength between rubber and ply.

    Ialso add carbon cloth to both front and back faces, but that's mostly for looks

    Good luck and if your friend needs further details, tell him to contact me direct to my address
    Regards,
    MattK
    (Rcmaster199@aol.com)

  17. #117

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    RE: Let's gasify a Vanquish

    Hi Matt,
    Again thank you.
    Yes I/he/we may have one or two questions.

    Brian

  18. #118
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    RE: Let's gasify a Vanquish


    ORIGINAL: papaone

    Hello

    Yesterday I saw a pattern equiped with DLE35R with exhaust tuned pipe MVVS.
    It's very very powerfull, plane climbs indefinitely. Starting hand, no constraint number of flights or flight time, fuel cheap.
    It's awesome.
    Claude
    Clade,

    Which propeller was being run, have you any information?

    As far as the right kind of power, the benchmark FORME has always been the YS170-175. Ability to turn YS sized props in mid range with good torque is what I am measuring and comparing against. The only 2 stroke in the size range I am looking in so far with the power curve required is the OS...The OS can be flown slow or fast....that's the bottom line for me. I also have my latest model which will be powered with a DLE55 2 stroke. Now that's power to burn at any throttle setting, but is probably not practical foreveryone and doesn't count as a 2 stroke example......

    I don't deny that other two strokes in the 30cc class have the necessary power to go vertical. Point is at what throttle setting and with how much lead? Heck,a couple years ago I proved it with my SAP180 powered model.... was terrific but was missing the low end torque for grunt work and required leading the throttle to get the model vertical with authority. And I definitely made it work

    Regards,
    MattK
    (Rcmaster199@aol.com)

  19. #119
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    RE: Let's gasify a Vanquish

    Hello Matt

    Friend of mine uses APC 18,1 x 11.
    He told me, DLE35RA is more powerfull than his 170 CDI.
    Claude

  20. #120
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    RE: Let's gasify a Vanquish


    ORIGINAL: papaone

    Hello Matt

    Friend of mine uses APC 18,1 x 11.
    He told me, DLE35RA is more powerfull than his 170 CDI.
    Claude
    Claude most if not all the current 30-35cc gas engines will turn this prop well. That should be a good prop for breaking in the 35, but keep in mindthe engine will turn more load especially on pipe. As far as more power than the YS170, I'm not so sure. I will put a pipe on mine soon and see how it behaves, turning the same props as the YS170 does

    To me, high revving is not what we want. My SAP180 HP was high revving and it turned this size prop too but it wasn't as easy to fly well, spooling up to well over 8000....

    What I've been looking for is a moderate rpm engine with lots of low end tork turning large disc areas and creating lots of thrust at lower rpm. The OS has that.....that's what I'm saying.

    But it's great that more and more people are giving this type of powerplant a good look. It's worth a really good look. Just yesterday I saw the price of Cool Power 30% heli blend; $40 US per gallon would make anyone cringe. Pricing elsewhere (OUS) has to be even greater. That'sabout twice asexpensive than running electric batteries on a per flight basis (assume 100 flights per $200 F3AU battery set)

    Regards,
    MattK
    (Rcmaster199@aol.com)

  21. #121

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    I am definitely enjoying my SAP on my Venus. .
    I just don't have a desire to go electric. I can run 4 back to back 18 minute flights, stopping to charge the flight pack and that only takes 8 minutes and do it again. I just don't have the resources to go electric anyway. And, the price of glow fuel. It just makes sense for me.
    I am currently looking for a new airframe for next year that will accept a gas engine.
    \"He who makes the least inputs... wins!\"

    Patrick

  22. #122

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    Dear Matt
    I show your gasified VQ in you tube. It was great.
    You might remember I had Smaragd with OS 33GT, which I lost due to radio failure.
    Then I am flying Extra 330 with OS 33, but I am not satisfied.
    It is difficult to find 2x2 F3A plane for OS 33. So I decide to gasify my VQ with OS 33 engine. Your thread and You tube encourage me much to mod it.
    I have been out on my work, and also involved in a Forum about Chinese new Tx, Taranis in RC Group.
    I will proceed soon to prepare materials for a soft mount. This time I'll make it by myself with friend's help here.
    The first Hyde mount was lost with Smaragd in a river. And I'll just use the OS stock muffler which make simple to mod.
    Thanks for your this thread on 'Let's gasify a VQ'.

  23. #123
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    Choihjin,

    I remember the Smaragd but didn't realized you had lost it. Sorry to hear that. These things are real set backs sometimes for those of us that don't have a team working with them.

    The rubber stock I use is from a motorcycle inner tube. The engine mount diameter is around 9cm so the rubber needs to have an unstretched diameter of around 8.5 cm. It works better when it is stretched a little to fit. Maybe a better way to state it is that the mount has a circumference of about 27 1/2 cm while the rubber tube should have something around 25 1/2 cm to 26 cm.

    BTW- I have a different thread in RCU that shows how to build a soft rubber iso mount....Good luck. The OS 33GT is terrific power for the VQ. Half throttle everywhere for anything we need in Pattern

    The glue is regular thin or medium ca. BUT you have got to make sure that the rubber is scrubbed clean and then sanded to remove any gloss. It will stick great to aircraft plywood
    Regards,
    MattK
    (Rcmaster199@aol.com)

  24. #124

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    Matt, Thanks for quick response.
    Actually I have searched all your thread about the soft mount, and organized all your writing.
    I'll look at it again and will search whether a suitable tire tube is available here, Korea.
    Actually I'll work withone of my club members to make soft mounts, who is very good machanic and experienced, but not able to understand English. I should direct him how to do.
    I am not sure when it will be done, but I'll be here when it is ready to fly in the sky.
    Thanks again
    Thanks, you look good in health, seeing from you tube.

  25. #125

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    Dear Matt;
    I just made a ring, front plate and back plate.
    Diameter of the ring are 88 mm inner diameter and 107 mm, so 9.5 mm thickness.
    Thickness of Front plate is 5.5 mm (2x3/32'' +GF), and that of back plate is 4.5 mm (2/32"+1/16" +GF). Diameter are both 111 mm.
    Four holes in the front plate (in the picture) are for engine mount of OS GT33.
    However, I can not find proper inner tube. One that I have is from a small plow trackter with a circumference of 34 cm, which just fit on the ring without stretch.
    I am considering to cut the rubber, and make a tight rubber ring by overlapping two ends pasting with gorilla super glue.
    Please, suggest any comment. Thanks Matt.
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