What engine for Kaos 60 (oldtimers please look)
09-13-2003, 01:54 PM
#1
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Baton Rouge, LA
Posts: 603
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
What engine for Kaos 60 (oldtimers please look)
I've got a vintage Bridi Super Kaos 60 kit that was given to me by a dear friend. The box is falling apart, the plans are cracking and useless (bought a new set), but the wood is still in good shape. I've built two of the smaller 40 size, and want to get this classic in the air.
The question is: what engine to use? I realize it was designed for the light 60s of the day. I've gotten heavy into four strokes, and would like to use one. A YS 63 would be perfect; plenty of power and not too large or heavy- and it takes a 13" prop which would clear the nose wheel height. Maybe I'm being idiotic, but it just seems like a travesty to put a four stroke into a classic pattern plane of that era; and I'm not too keen on YS anyway, since both of the ones I had ended up being more trouble than they were worth. The other "mid-range" four strokes are really too big (and heavy) to shoe-horn into that cramped engine compartment.
I do know that I do NOT want to put a modern 61 two stroke in there. I had an OS 60 FP for it, but sold that some time back when another friend wanted it.
So, what to do? I have only a vague idea of what was "hot" back then, and no idea of how the market for those engines is now, or what kind of shape they are in, what's available, etc.
I'm open to whatever suggestions you might have. No tuned pipes, Perry pumps, etc., please. I just want a normally-aspirated engine with a muffler.
I appreciate your thoughts...
Steve
The question is: what engine to use? I realize it was designed for the light 60s of the day. I've gotten heavy into four strokes, and would like to use one. A YS 63 would be perfect; plenty of power and not too large or heavy- and it takes a 13" prop which would clear the nose wheel height. Maybe I'm being idiotic, but it just seems like a travesty to put a four stroke into a classic pattern plane of that era; and I'm not too keen on YS anyway, since both of the ones I had ended up being more trouble than they were worth. The other "mid-range" four strokes are really too big (and heavy) to shoe-horn into that cramped engine compartment.
I do know that I do NOT want to put a modern 61 two stroke in there. I had an OS 60 FP for it, but sold that some time back when another friend wanted it.
So, what to do? I have only a vague idea of what was "hot" back then, and no idea of how the market for those engines is now, or what kind of shape they are in, what's available, etc.
I'm open to whatever suggestions you might have. No tuned pipes, Perry pumps, etc., please. I just want a normally-aspirated engine with a muffler.
I appreciate your thoughts...
Steve
09-13-2003, 03:23 PM
#2
Senior Member
My Feedback: (1)
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Kelowna, BC, CANADA
Posts: 143
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: What engine for Kaos 60 (oldtimers please look)
you could try a K & B .61 or a Webra blackhead .61 - both were common in the KAOS of years ago, and bot are reasonably priced.
09-14-2003, 08:38 PM
#4
Member
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: cedar rapids,
IA
Posts: 83
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: What engine for Kaos 60 (oldtimers please look)
The Super tigre bluehead .60 or the webra black head . Many flights on that plane wore out a couple of engines great flying plane.
09-14-2003, 11:13 PM
#5
Member
My Feedback: (1)
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Pace, FL
Posts: 47
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: What engine for Kaos 60 (oldtimers please look)
Hi Steve,
You might consider an O.S. 61 FSR. That was a popular engine at the time for Pattern. Easy to handle, a nice idle and plenty of power with a Zinger 11 - 7, even with the standard muffler. They're often available on eBay and here on RCU. NIB ones cost about $135. I still have three 61 FSR's and love them.
The Kaos is a great airplane. Hope you enjoy it.
Tom
You might consider an O.S. 61 FSR. That was a popular engine at the time for Pattern. Easy to handle, a nice idle and plenty of power with a Zinger 11 - 7, even with the standard muffler. They're often available on eBay and here on RCU. NIB ones cost about $135. I still have three 61 FSR's and love them.
The Kaos is a great airplane. Hope you enjoy it.
Tom
09-15-2003, 07:11 AM
#6
RE: What engine for Kaos 60 (oldtimers please look)
Steve,
I most certainly agree that a 4 stroke doesn't belong on a Kaos. It is really amazing that everytime this design is mentioned quite a few people come out of the woodwork telling of the great flying abilities of this plane. Everybody should have at least one... I know I always do...As for an engine... I have flown them with everything from YS .60s to OS .61 FSR/ABCs and for an inexpensive (relatively) engine I would suggest you put a Kraft .61 on it. The engine has tons of power, is available from Mecoa...and is just about a perfect match of power/weight for a Kaos. Good luck w/your project.. it's always good to hear about another kit being put in the air... where they belong !
Deadstik....[8D]
I most certainly agree that a 4 stroke doesn't belong on a Kaos. It is really amazing that everytime this design is mentioned quite a few people come out of the woodwork telling of the great flying abilities of this plane. Everybody should have at least one... I know I always do...As for an engine... I have flown them with everything from YS .60s to OS .61 FSR/ABCs and for an inexpensive (relatively) engine I would suggest you put a Kraft .61 on it. The engine has tons of power, is available from Mecoa...and is just about a perfect match of power/weight for a Kaos. Good luck w/your project.. it's always good to hear about another kit being put in the air... where they belong !
Deadstik....[8D]
09-15-2003, 01:08 PM
#7
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Baton Rouge, LA
Posts: 603
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: What engine for Kaos 60 (oldtimers please look)
Deadstik,
I looked at the Mecoa site; didn't see anything regarding Kraft engines.
I would indeed like to find a vintage ST BlueHead 61 or something similar. I want nothing to do with anything that has K&B or Fox on the side of the crankcase. I'm leaning away from OS because of their weight. Good engines, I know, but I want to avoid having to add tail weight. The skinny, narrow fuse on this bird gives you NO leeway for moving gear around to get the CG right.
Not having any luck finding much used stuff that looks promising. I've perused the classifieds on three other boards, after giving up wading through all the disorganization on the "new" classifieds here. I saw a couple on the message board on the Mecoa site, but couldn't get registered to make an inquiry.
Are there any other places to look that I'm missing?
Steve
I looked at the Mecoa site; didn't see anything regarding Kraft engines.
I would indeed like to find a vintage ST BlueHead 61 or something similar. I want nothing to do with anything that has K&B or Fox on the side of the crankcase. I'm leaning away from OS because of their weight. Good engines, I know, but I want to avoid having to add tail weight. The skinny, narrow fuse on this bird gives you NO leeway for moving gear around to get the CG right.
Not having any luck finding much used stuff that looks promising. I've perused the classifieds on three other boards, after giving up wading through all the disorganization on the "new" classifieds here. I saw a couple on the message board on the Mecoa site, but couldn't get registered to make an inquiry.
Are there any other places to look that I'm missing?
Steve
09-15-2003, 05:05 PM
#9
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Baton Rouge, LA
Posts: 603
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: What engine for Kaos 60 (oldtimers please look)
The originals came out of this box...
RCM Plan Service still has 'em. Sorry, don't recall the number right now, and they are currently under a sheet of weighted plywood, getting the wrinkles out.
You really need a jig to do the wing right, BTW. The plans only show one wing half, and the top fuse view is superimposed over some other stuff; bad karma for those of us who like to cut up plans and work with one section at a time...
RCM Plan Service still has 'em. Sorry, don't recall the number right now, and they are currently under a sheet of weighted plywood, getting the wrinkles out.
You really need a jig to do the wing right, BTW. The plans only show one wing half, and the top fuse view is superimposed over some other stuff; bad karma for those of us who like to cut up plans and work with one section at a time...
09-15-2003, 10:08 PM
#10
Senior Member
My Feedback: (1)
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Kelowna, BC, CANADA
Posts: 143
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: What engine for Kaos 60 (oldtimers please look)
Steve:
There's an ST .60 Bluehead posted for sale today in the RCU classifieds. If you want new: check out MECOA.com - they have the HP .61, HB .61 and RJL (Ktraft) .61 all at reasonable prices. the HP engine is lighter than most and may be closer to what you are lookin for.
Brian
There's an ST .60 Bluehead posted for sale today in the RCU classifieds. If you want new: check out MECOA.com - they have the HP .61, HB .61 and RJL (Ktraft) .61 all at reasonable prices. the HP engine is lighter than most and may be closer to what you are lookin for.
Brian
09-16-2003, 08:49 AM
#12
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Baton Rouge, LA
Posts: 603
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: What engine for Kaos 60 (oldtimers please look)
Thanks, Brian; I'll check it out. Deadstik clued me in on the RJL/Kraft engines; I'm goping to give them another look.
Steve
Steve
