vatechguy3

My Feedback: (11)

setting up my first pattern plane.
servos will be:
(2) bls 153s for elevators
(2) bls 551s for ailerons
(1) bls 451 for rudder

looking at running two small lipos with tec aero switched regulators at 6v. i would like to be able to get at least 8 flights without recharging.

my experiences are with 40% cardens with 8 bls 152s and 2 bls 451s and i use 2 5200 packs. don't think i need quite that much in a pattern application!

thanks
tony

danamania

For a dual-redundant regulator set-up, I am running 2x 2S 460 nano techs.  Something around that size should be a good compromise between weight and flights.  Usually swap one out for a charged batt before a big practice day, whichever is lowest on juice.  Redundancy rules!

rm

My Feedback: (27)

Depends on what type of power plant your running. This type setup doesn't work that well, at least it wasn't for me. Both paks draw down at different rates, thus you end up with one pak that gets to close to cutoff voltage while the other pak is still at a useable capacity. I've ended up using a bigger main pack and a smaller pack as a backup.

danamania

A true dual-redundant regulator set-up only draws down from one pack at a time, usually the one with the highest voltage, leaving the other pack as back-up should it be needed.  This is different from a parallel connection that draws upon both packs simultaneously, or two packs connected to one regulator that does not discriminate/switch between them (based on available voltage).  There are certainly many options for Rx power so it will be interesting to see what others are using in their pattern ships.  Now that the season is here and practice days can be long and rewarding, I check both battery voltages before loading the plane into the car for the day, and sometimes again at the field if I am getting a lot of flights in.  Good habit!

Portlandflyer

Dana,If both Tech Aero's are set to six volts, you are going to pull from both batteries. I ran that set up last year and didn't like it as I had to deal with two low batteries. I now run dual Tech Aero's in a Nuance and an Arixtra. Both are set up the same way with one regulator set .2 volts lower than the other. I run Thunder Power 350ma's on both regulators. The Arixtra has BLS's in it and pulls about 50 ma per flight. I fly four flights and replace the low pack. The other pack doesn't get drawn. Ever now and then I swap the unused pack as the one that is drawn from.

vatechguy3

My Feedback: (11)

wow those are small batts!!

what i see in my imac setups, is all the batteries draw down together when the regulators are matched properly.

so for 8 flights i need to look at 750mah packs?

tony

Silent-AV8R

I use the same servos the OP listed in my Abbra. I use on average 50 mAh of capacity per flight flying the Advanced sequence. I use a single 1,450 mAh Hyperion 2S LiFePO4 pack. I plan on using no more than 60% of the pack's capacity, or 870 mAh. That gives me about 17 flights. I round down to 15 for an added safety buffer.

If I wanted to go to dual packs I'd simply run two of the 850 LiFePO4 packs, no regulators.

BTW, I no longer use mechanical switches. I use magnetically actuated switches made by Emcotec.

http://shop.rc-electronic.com/e-vend...=6&c=541&p=541

THey have both regulated and non-regulated switches. These have proven to be bullet-proof in muse use on pattern planes, helis, IMAC, and gliders.

SAB

Tony,

Was mentioned above but it's important to know what type of power plant you are using - the 50mA per flight numbers mentioned above only relates to electric power. IC power is usualy significantly more, up to 250mA per flight (because the servo's working much harder fighting the engine vibration, even if soft mounted).

Steve

klhoard

My Feedback: (10)

I am running two Tech Aero regulators, one set to 5.9V output, and the other set to 5.7V output.
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The 5.9V regulator is powered off the balance plug of one of the 5S-5000 motor batteries by tapping the first two cells for power with a male XH plug.
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The 5.7V regulator is powered by a 2S-350Mah LiPo for backup power in case something catastrophic happens to the 5.9V regulator (main battery ejection?). I flew my Osiris without the backup battery, just a regulator powered off the motor battery.
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Both regulators outputs are plugged into the receiver power bus.
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When the 5.9V regulator is powered up by the motor battery, it turns off the 5.7V regulator, so the 2S-350Mah LiPo is never drained. Since I charge the motor batteries every flight, there is no separate receiver battery to charge. For peace of mind, I charge the 2S-350 LiPo at the start of every flying session, but it is always at 99%.
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I don't use switches anywhere in this setup, just simply plug in both batteries to their regulators since you have to open the cowl to replace the motor batteries anyway.
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Simple, (mostly) maintenance free, and redundant.
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jgg215

Like Keith I use two cells of the motor battery as my primary source and set that to 6.2 volts. My 350 lipo is set to 5.75
I also use tech-aero regulators but use the version with the fail-safe switch and mount the switches externally. The switches are there so reduncancy can be checked prior to every flight. Turn on one power system and check for radio operation, turn on second system, turn off first and recheck radio operation, then turn first system back on.
If you don't perform this check prior to each flight, you cannot be sure that both sides are operational prior to takeoff, thereby eliminating some of your redundancy.
John

Portlandflyer

I agree completely. I lost a plane last year using a redundant system that had one switch. The problem is, you don’t know if both sides are working. I now run separate regulators that have their own switch. I do the same thing. Turn on one side…turn it off…turn on the other…then the first back on. That’s how you check the magnetos on a full size.

Silent-AV8R

The Emcotec switches are solid state with no physical contacts in them like a conventional switch. The dual pack switches have a cool feature that tells you if a pack is below nominal voltage and which one is it. The LED flashes to tell you this. The LED is also very handy to remind you that the radio is still powered. The switches are designed to fail "on" as well. So far I have not had one fail, nor ever heard of one failing.

Another company in Europe makes a smaller more compact switch that is actuated by a magnet as well. I use his switches in my gliders. He has also come out with a higher amp rated switch (15 amps)

http://zepsus.com/magnetic-switch/

http://zepsus.com/magnetic-switch-15a/

These are also a great product.

I have not used a physical switch in years.

danamania

Hi Tony, FWIW, when I first brought my then new Vanquish (Himax 210, Ice2 HV80) around to contests, I was flying it with two 2S 800 NanoTechs. These were identified for me as weight to reduce, amongst other things LOL, and it took me a while, but I did go with the flow and replace those with the 2S 430s and have not looked back since. The Vanquish is not the lighest 2m ARF and every little bit of weight saved will go to performance. That said, I could fly all day and then some with both of the little lipos starting on a full charge. The 800's? All weekend or more! The problem there, aside from carrying too much weight on each flight, was that it was too easy to get out of the habit of checking the Rx packs on a regular basis. Since going down to the 400's, they last just the right amount of flights for voltage checking to be rewarding, without being too frequent a chore. "Just right!" as the fairy tail line goes LOL! YMMV but 800s are not necessary IMO for pattern in an electric powered Vanquish. Say, did you decide to forego the gas conversion? And if so, WELCOME TO THE DARK SIDE! Cheers.

bjr_93tz

+1

Using about 250mA per flight (two schedules back to back + a few minutes more) in my CDI equiped Aries with 3 x S9650's, 2 x BLS154's and a S9255. These days you need to read between the lines because what an electric flyer calls a "flight" might not be the same duration as what an IC flyer calls a "flight".

Just as over on the Goldwing forums you need to step back when an American and Canadian start arguing over how many MPG they're getting out of their bikes, which usually starts when the American calls BS over the Canadian's seemingly much too good to be true fuel economy, which is oddly consistant with what British and Aussie riders are achieving

I run a single 1300mAh Li-po (and charge it in the plane [X(]) split off to two regulators (one for cdi and one fore the RX) and feel safe to get 3 x 12 minute flights..

Ekvien

In my Synergy equiped with OS 140 RX I use 2cells LiFe 1100 mAh and from last charging its seems to use about 135 mAh pr flight in average. My flight time is set to 8 minutes but if you include start up - carry out and all time used for 1 fligh the real time pr flight is about 10 minutes. So I have 5 - 6 flights on one package and feel pretty much safte with that.

klhoard

My Feedback: (10)

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John,

I forgot to mention that I am collecting a $0.05 royalty per flight from guys using this system.
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My redundancy check is to plug in the main battery first, then the backup. Then after landing unplug the main first, then the backup. We do this in full scale; some equipment is checked at the end of the flight (or only once in a 24 hour period) in anticipation of the next. Of all the equipment in my plane, those two regulators are the least of my worries.
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Maybe we can convince Ed Alt to install an LED that is isolated from the other regulator on the output side that indicates power output.
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jgg215

Keith,
Since we agreed at the Nats two years ago that we independantly developed this system at the same time, I assume you are holding half the money in escrow for me. When can I expect a check??

Understand your point about redundancy checks. Just want to make sure everyone using a dual system checks both sources on a regular basis particularly for the first flight of the day. I will say that for a critical system like this, I like to know that both sources are functional prior to takeoff, not after shutdown. Either way is much better than just turning on both systems and flying.

John

klhoard

My Feedback: (10)

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I thought we also agreed it would be capped at 40% your NSRCA officer paycheck . . .
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Jimbo952

Keith,

Im putting together my first elec. patten plane (wind S bought used) and I like your idea using the motor battery to power primary regulator. I am unclear as to how to wire the input to the reg using two cell out puts and the common ground. Can you clarify this?
Thanks
Jim

klhoard

My Feedback: (10)

Jim,

Search Digi-Key website for 6-pin XH connectors. They will be around $0.26 each, so order at least 10. Shipping will be more than the connectors.
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Once you get your XH connector, solder the ground input wire from the regulator to the pin that will insert into the ground balance pin on your motor pack. Skip one pin, and solder the red wire to this pin. That should feed 8.2V to the regulator off your main motor pack. Snip off all other pins and insulate so you don't get inadvertent shorts when plugging into the balance connector. I paint the pins with Liquid Electrical Tape from Home Depot.
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When soldering to the pins on the male XH connector, don't leave the heat on too long. The plastic around the pin is not very substantial and it will melt easily. If you have a female balance plug that you have snipped off of a battery, then you can plug it into that to hold the wire (trust me, don't fall to the temptation to use your live battery). If you can rig up some sort of heat sink to protect the pin, then do it. That is also why I told you to order 10 from the start. I ruined about four before figuring it out.
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Anthony-RCU

My Feedback: (2)

I am too heavy handed to solder directly to the connectors without melting them. I had some extra HK balance adapters that worked well. Pull out the wires you don't need then solder to the wire without destroying the connector. Also, pot the pins well with some thick Ca or a tiny bit of epoxy because the will loosen over time. Check this regularly since this is a high use item.

[link]http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__9922__Female_JST_XH_gt_Male_Thunderpower_5S_5cm_ 5pcs_bag_.html[/link]

klhoard

My Feedback: (10)

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Good idea. . . I guess you could pull the pins out of the connector, solder them, then slide them back in also.
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Jetdesign

My Feedback: (8)

Two 450mah packs in parallel will do you fine.

Jimbo952

Thanks for clearing that up. I found a ready made adapter at f3a unlimited

http://www.f3aunlimited.com/webstore...roducts_id=567

klhoard

My Feedback: (10)

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Yes, but you have to continuously charge / monitor one or both packs. If you're tapping power off of your motor batteries, then your "receiver" pack is always charged. The backup 2S-350 is only discharged while you are checking redundancy of the system.
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If you're using the F3A Unlimited adapter, make sure you are using a regulator to feed power into your radio. The raw voltage ripples off of the two motor cells while you're running the motor due to ESC switching. The regulator clips off the voltage below the ripple level and feeds smooth power to your radio.