post some pictures of your pattern plane!!
02-18-2014, 11:20 PM
#1005
Hello Malydinar
Il think this one is powered with electric motor. Are the others Arixtra will be with electric or engine ?
I sent pictures to Pascal Nowik. He is happy to see your plane.
Claude
Il think this one is powered with electric motor. Are the others Arixtra will be with electric or engine ?
I sent pictures to Pascal Nowik. He is happy to see your plane.
Claude
02-19-2014, 05:05 PM
#1007
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Papaone,
This one is electric and powered by neu motor. The next two fill be Ys, one 175 and the other 180 If I can find one in the states. The last arixtra isn't on the workbench yet but will most likely be electric
This one is electric and powered by neu motor. The next two fill be Ys, one 175 and the other 180 If I can find one in the states. The last arixtra isn't on the workbench yet but will most likely be electric
02-21-2014, 09:41 PM
#1008
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This is my new Shinden. Today's maiden was uneventful, couple clicks of aileron and a couple clicks of elevator. Knife edge went to the canopy so I'll slide the batteries aft tomorrow.
02-22-2014, 08:04 PM
#1010
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Yes, it's the electric version. I'm using the Hymax motor, Castle ESC, JR 8411's in the ailerons and rudder, and Futaba 9650 in the elevator halves. I see you are signed up for the Apache Junction Contest, Maybe I'll be there. The weather girl is calling for rain next weekend. Bummer
Here are a couple more pictures. Weight ? don't know, I'll never be good enough to go to the Nats so weight isn't a concern, BUT it's lighter than my Valiant.
03-01-2014, 12:44 AM
#1014
Hi,
Lovely work.
What weight veil did you use and what prep method then prior to the paint.
Do you have weights by any chance.
Brian
Lovely work.
What weight veil did you use and what prep method then prior to the paint.
Do you have weights by any chance.
Brian
Last edited by serious power; 03-01-2014 at 06:35 AM. Reason: Typo
03-01-2014, 09:17 AM
#1016
Brian,
I used Matt K's process just as he does. I know you are familiar with his methods. I used .2 oz. veil. I don't have weights of the components, but I will tell you it got heavier than I thought it would. I had the bottoms of the wings and stabs veiled and painted and wound up sanding it all off and used Ultracote on the bottoms to get the weight back down. I think what added a lot of weight is way too much primer and I am finding the House of Kolor UC35 clear is beautiful stuff, but very heavy. The whole plane is right at 5,000 with 5,000 packs and 4,900 with 4,500's. I really don't think weight is a major issue with bipes with their low wing loading. Even at 5,000 most bipes have a wing loading 20 to 30 percent under mono's. You get these bipes too light and they act like kites.
I used Matt K's process just as he does. I know you are familiar with his methods. I used .2 oz. veil. I don't have weights of the components, but I will tell you it got heavier than I thought it would. I had the bottoms of the wings and stabs veiled and painted and wound up sanding it all off and used Ultracote on the bottoms to get the weight back down. I think what added a lot of weight is way too much primer and I am finding the House of Kolor UC35 clear is beautiful stuff, but very heavy. The whole plane is right at 5,000 with 5,000 packs and 4,900 with 4,500's. I really don't think weight is a major issue with bipes with their low wing loading. Even at 5,000 most bipes have a wing loading 20 to 30 percent under mono's. You get these bipes too light and they act like kites.
03-01-2014, 12:51 PM
#1018
' but I will tell you it got heavier than I thought it would. I had the bottoms of the wings and stabs veiled and painted and wound up sanding it all off and used Ultracote on the bottoms to get the weight back down.'
Hi Patrick,
That's a pity and a little disappointing. Yes I've been following Matt's work with good interest.
You made some recovery though as it looks great. Primers can be very heavy - some anyway.
Yes, right up to 5050g is ok with these bipes.
Best of luck with it.
Thanks.
Brian
Hi Patrick,
That's a pity and a little disappointing. Yes I've been following Matt's work with good interest.
You made some recovery though as it looks great. Primers can be very heavy - some anyway.
Yes, right up to 5050g is ok with these bipes.
Best of luck with it.
Thanks.
Brian
03-03-2014, 10:36 AM
#1019
Senior Member
Brian,
I used Matt K's process just as he does. I know you are familiar with his methods. I used .2 oz. veil. I don't have weights of the components, but I will tell you it got heavier than I thought it would. I had the bottoms of the wings and stabs veiled and painted and wound up sanding it all off and used Ultracote on the bottoms to get the weight back down. I think what added a lot of weight is way too much primer and I am finding the House of Kolor UC35 clear is beautiful stuff, but very heavy. The whole plane is right at 5,000 with 5,000 packs and 4,900 with 4,500's. I really don't think weight is a major issue with bipes with their low wing loading. Even at 5,000 most bipes have a wing loading 20 to 30 percent under mono's. You get these bipes too light and they act like kites.
I used Matt K's process just as he does. I know you are familiar with his methods. I used .2 oz. veil. I don't have weights of the components, but I will tell you it got heavier than I thought it would. I had the bottoms of the wings and stabs veiled and painted and wound up sanding it all off and used Ultracote on the bottoms to get the weight back down. I think what added a lot of weight is way too much primer and I am finding the House of Kolor UC35 clear is beautiful stuff, but very heavy. The whole plane is right at 5,000 with 5,000 packs and 4,900 with 4,500's. I really don't think weight is a major issue with bipes with their low wing loading. Even at 5,000 most bipes have a wing loading 20 to 30 percent under mono's. You get these bipes too light and they act like kites.
My covering lately has been a return to tried and true Esaki Tissue or Light Silkspan, doped down. Material thickness is the key here because the thinner the lesser paint it takes to seal. There is technique involved here that one needs to learn in handling the light coverings. The result is worth it since I beat the weight of plastic films (but a heck of lot more work goes into it). My typical wing panel is about 530 square inches and finished with servo and linkage it weighs around 410-430 grams without any foam removal. It can be built even lighter tho. Consider how Brian is working his panels in his Wing section/Bipe thread. Also consider that Contorl Line Stunt guys can build 700 square inch wings at 8 ozs all paint. Of course the weights of the respective models are alot different but still, it is doable and can be made strong enough for pattern.
I've written about that covering technique elsewhere but if anyone wants details, contact me directly.
03-03-2014, 11:04 AM
#1020
Matt,
I still believe the veil method has a lot of merit. I found it to be very easy to work with and gives a glass smooth finish. I don't think my excessive weight gain came from the veil rather the excess primer and clear coat. My question to you, is are you able to get as smooth a finish with the Tissue or Silkspan versus carbon? Do you prime them the same as carbon?
Thanks
I still believe the veil method has a lot of merit. I found it to be very easy to work with and gives a glass smooth finish. I don't think my excessive weight gain came from the veil rather the excess primer and clear coat. My question to you, is are you able to get as smooth a finish with the Tissue or Silkspan versus carbon? Do you prime them the same as carbon?
Thanks
03-03-2014, 03:20 PM
#1021
Senior Member
Matt,
I still believe the veil method has a lot of merit. I found it to be very easy to work with and gives a glass smooth finish. I don't think my excessive weight gain came from the veil rather the excess primer and clear coat. My question to you, is are you able to get as smooth a finish with the Tissue or Silkspan versus carbon? Do you prime them the same as carbon?
Thanks
I still believe the veil method has a lot of merit. I found it to be very easy to work with and gives a glass smooth finish. I don't think my excessive weight gain came from the veil rather the excess primer and clear coat. My question to you, is are you able to get as smooth a finish with the Tissue or Silkspan versus carbon? Do you prime them the same as carbon?
Thanks
The short answer is yes and it is lighter. A combination of carbon veil in and tissue out forms a really strong and stiff composite skin. Tissue is a little thinner to begin with than carbon veil and tends to seal and fill quicker. And It's a little more difficult to cut through this stuff (with sandpaper) compared to carbon. It has a smoother structure than carbon veil and a smoother surface texture. But applying it is a real pita. You can't wet it like you can thicker material like medium silkspan or thicker esaki. Once it touches itself wet, it sticks to itself making handling impossible.
I have never seen the technique I will discuss mentioned anywhere before. Maybe I invented it, who knows. I free hang the tissue on a frame with a couple pins and use a very light, fine spray of water on it. Not enough to get it wet but just enough to get it damp. A couple minutes later the fibers have loosed and the paper is ready to hang. I install it to the balsa smoothing it out a bit and tack the edges with a little dope. I let it fully dry first before I dope it down.
You see, damping the material with a fine water spray is adequate exposure to moisture which will loosen the material and expand it. (Steam probably would work, but it is a hassle.) Then as it dries, it shrinks and morphs into a very tight and exceedingly smooth (think grape skin) covering. Once it is dry, I dope it down with a brush on one hand and paper towel at the ready on the other to absorb any excess dope. I basically rub the tissue into the wood, but only after it has dried. This technique results in a crease and wrinkle free covering. Then a couple more coats to further seal and fully bed it. It is pretty much ready to prime at this point. I dry sand only at the primer stage. I don't wet sand in this technique untl after the color coats are applied. The dope is just too thin. Of course, more coats will water proof the tissue but it isn't necessary. The extra weight doesn't buy me anything.
Last edited by MTK; 03-03-2014 at 03:24 PM.
03-04-2014, 01:35 PM
#1023
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Hello Portlandflyer,
Very nice work. Do tell ... how much right-thrust is molded into the fuselage of the sensation?
The CL Stunt guys i know use 0.2 oz/sq-yd carbon veil and nitrate dope and get very light finishes.
After putting the veil down with nitrate they sand much of it off then prime/sand and paint.
Like they say, it ain't what you put on, it's what you sand off!
Regards,
Dean Pappas
Very nice work. Do tell ... how much right-thrust is molded into the fuselage of the sensation?
The CL Stunt guys i know use 0.2 oz/sq-yd carbon veil and nitrate dope and get very light finishes.
After putting the veil down with nitrate they sand much of it off then prime/sand and paint.
Like they say, it ain't what you put on, it's what you sand off!
Regards,
Dean Pappas
03-04-2014, 01:53 PM
#1024
Dean,
I don't know for sure how much right trust is in it, but I would guess no more than 1 1/2.
I know I picked up the weight at the primer stage and then just added more with too much heavy clear. All and all, it still came out fine and looks good...let's just hope it fly's well too.
I don't know for sure how much right trust is in it, but I would guess no more than 1 1/2.
I know I picked up the weight at the primer stage and then just added more with too much heavy clear. All and all, it still came out fine and looks good...let's just hope it fly's well too.