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M14 and a Gaudius

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Old 02-03-2016, 07:44 AM
  #26
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Anything new on this plane? I am going to put mine together soon. Finally....
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Old 02-03-2016, 10:49 AM
  #27
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Hurry up and do it ! I lost the yellow one, and imidiately ordered a new white one. Same excellent quality in nr 2.
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Old 02-04-2016, 07:13 AM
  #28
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Hi Egger,

Sorry to hear that. I lost my Gaudious 1 too. Elevatormalfunction. Could you give me some information on setting up theplane? Everything you measure or change it will be beneficial. I amgoing to use a contra. I assume that you didn't change the incidence. Probably CG location is a good one and control throws and final mixing values if anywill be great information.

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Old 02-05-2016, 02:07 PM
  #29
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The Gaudius has survived, the yellow M14 did not, due to a bad anti spark female connector.

The new white color version is just finished........

I have, once again, raised the trailing edge of the top wing some 5 mm, and further trials is probably needed in the field, but nothing else has to be changed. It is laid out for slow flight
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Old 02-06-2016, 06:14 PM
  #30
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Looks great as usual from JM. Keep us updated. Thanks,
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Old 06-10-2016, 02:55 PM
  #31
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Hi Eggert,
I sent you an e-mail. I just would like to know the CG range you got. I estimated around the wing tube should be a good start.

Thanks,
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Old 06-11-2016, 10:51 AM
  #32
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Hi Vince ...i fly with a cg about 15 mm in front of the wing tube. The M14 is NOT so sensible when it comes to cg, so i just place my slightly different weighing batteries in the same place.
However, in very windy conditions i try to push the batteries to the front because the directional stability increases by doing so. JM recommends CG 192 mm from the leading edge measured at wing root, and that is about where i fly it. At this point,cg =192, i have no trim on ailerons and no trim on elevators and i like the performance ......
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Old 06-13-2016, 05:21 AM
  #33
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Hi Eggert,

I flew once. I agree with you. The plane is not sensitive to CG location. Still I was able to improve the tracking moving the battery forward. This actually is better when using the contra. I will report a little more when I complete the trimming process. The contra version V-4 is incredible powerfull for sure.

Thanks,
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Old 06-13-2016, 07:04 AM
  #34
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Hi Eggert and Vince,

After 60 flights on mine my CG IS about 235 mm from the leading edge, at This point my stab is near to 0 trim, I tried the 195 location but I needed a lot of up elevator trim. With this cg location mine still pulls to the canopy on knife edge. I decreased the right thrust too, about 1 degree, because I have a big tendency to the right on verticals.

How is your knife edge performance with the CG at 195?

Thank's

Jordi
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Old 06-14-2016, 05:46 AM
  #35
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Hi Jordi,

I know that I am in front of the wing tube. I think somewhat close to the 192 mm. As Eggert mentioned the elevator trim didn't change that much when moving the CG. I am not sure you got different experience. For sure the plane didn't track well when getting close to the wing tube or 235 mm. I discovered small issue in the engine mount that I need to resolve. I will fly more and report back on trimming process after fixing the engine mount. What is your experience on knife edge with that CG location?

Let's keep contact.

Thanks,
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Old 06-17-2016, 09:33 AM
  #36
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Hi Vince,

First of all I agree with you and Eggert, I had the same feelling on the plane, and it is not very sensitive to CG location.

In my case with the CG at 195:

-The plane tracks perfect
-I was carring a little up trim elevator ( about 1 mm).
-The plane was pulling to the canopy on down lines.
-The plane was pulling to the canopy on the right and left rudder knife edge ( same amount).
-The plane tends to roll at the same side as the rudder on knife edge.
-On up verticals the plane tends to the right.

As the plane don't have incidence adjusters i decided to go rear with the CG to get 0 trim on the elevators.

At first i felt the plane was tracking worst, but I reduced the throws and put more expo to get the same feelling (this part is very important on rudder , I use very little travel).

What I get at 235 ( assuming the center of the wing tube is at 220) :

-The plane tracks well (maybe needs more ailerons work to fly level, slow fly style)
-I have 0 trim on my elevators.
-The plane still pulls to the canopy on down lines, but less mix ( i have 3% thr-elev down mix)
-The plane still pulls to the canopy on right and left knife, but less mix ( 2,5 % right and left rud-down elev.)
-On up verticals the plane still goes to the right.

I tried more rear but i didn't like the plane and the mixes still there only 1% less.

I decided to decrease the engine right thrust about 1 degree, and now the up verticals are close to perfect ( I did this last Saturday and I need to re-do mixes).

I fly at 235 on calm days, on windy days I do the same as Eggert, I move the batery pack forward about 20 mm.

I'm running a Q80 14xs with a RS 21x14W M2 and this plane is capable to fly very slow.

I think this is an awesome plane for it's price and quality (pictures don't do justice)

As always this is a matter of flying preference but don't be afraid to go rear.

Jordi

Last edited by Jordia9; 06-17-2016 at 09:52 AM.
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Old 06-17-2016, 10:14 AM
  #37
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Hi Jordi,

Excellent report. I flew 4 times the day before yesterday. You are correct on rudder sensitivity and conclusions with CG forward. With the contra the rudder is even more sensitive. I will try your suggestions next time I fly moving CG back. In my case with the contra looks like I need to install fences in the stab. However I am going to try your suggestions first. I notice that canalizer is not that rigid. I am planing to do something so does not move that easily. Have you notice that?

Thanks,

VB
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Old 06-22-2016, 06:26 AM
  #38
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I have the chance to fly yesterday. I did the following. Hard mounted the rear support of the contra V5 as suggested in the contra RCU page. Also improved the canalizer support to avoid flexing. Very simple fixes. I will post a picture later. For sure hard mounting the rear support fixed all trimming issues I was having earlier. Also moving the CG back helped to eliminate the rudder coupling to the canopy as Jordi suggested. When flying knife edge holding right rudder there is almost not mix required. Just a little down. With left rudder there is rolling tendency to left. I still working on this. The usual 2% down elevator down mix at lotthrottle was need it too. For now would like to fix that rolling tendency with left rudder. I was surprised to see the plane tracking so well moving the CG back. I know that I need some more trimming flights but it is getting closer. I think I am going to try more rear CG following Jordi lead. Interesting is that the plane tracks extremely well with contra and moving the CG back. I don't think I need stab fences so JM did something without adding fin area. I think the larger anhedral stab is doing the trick combined with rudder shape.

Last edited by vbortone; 06-22-2016 at 06:30 AM.
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Old 06-22-2016, 08:26 AM
  #39
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Hi Vince,

Nice to hear that we are close on trimming.

-About the canalizer, what I did on mine was to glue the rear fuse canopy metallic pins (they are screwed to the fuselage and tends to screw off with flights), I use a screw on the front part because I only have a 2mm gap with the Hacker Q80 14xs (I did a lot of snaps and it is rock solid).

-About rolling tendency:

At the beginning I was carrying about 5 clicks of left aileron trim, The knife edge was close to perfect on one side and with 2% mix to the other.
I decided to check the incidences and I found a small misalignment on wings and stabs. I could solve the wing difference sanding a little bit the wing pins and the fuse holes. I decided not to touch the stab incidence because it was a very small difference and it is so difficult.

Now I have 0 trim on my ailerons, but still have the rolling tendency.

But..., If you try a knife edge loop with full rudder you will see that the mix decreses a lot at the 30% of the travel, you only need it for the very first part of the rudder travel and then remains flat (it isn't linear mix). As I said on the last post I need to check it again, because now, I have my engine thrust close to perfect and improved the flight performance a lot. I think this is a normal mix on most F3A planes ( but as you, I don't understand why one side is perfect and the other no)
If you can solve it please let me Know.

I post some pictures of my plane, you will see where I have my battery pack now ( 980 gr.)
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Last edited by Jordia9; 06-22-2016 at 12:04 PM.
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Old 06-23-2016, 04:37 AM
  #40
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Hi Jordi,

- About canalizer. See attached picture. I wanted to say that the canalizer support flex over the canopy. I glued a piece to improve the support. It is much better now.
- About rolling tendency with left rudder. We need to try to figure it out. I know that will be difficult. My plane aileron trim is at zero. It is perfectly aligned. I checked with digital meter and could not be better. I agree that mixing is notl inear. Also agree that there is almost not mixing with left rudder.
- Pictures are perfect. Very nice detailed work. I am attaching some too.
- Battery. Your battery is very light. Mine are around 1150 gr. They are 5000 mah. Where you got those?

Thanks,
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Last edited by vbortone; 06-23-2016 at 08:33 AM.
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Old 08-01-2016, 10:37 AM
  #41
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Hi Jordi,

Have you try to fly it withou canalizer. Try it and let me know. I still trimming but I really liked the results.

Best,
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Old 05-14-2017, 01:27 AM
  #42
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Hello Guys,

has anyone flown both Gaudius and M14? How are they compared in the air?
I imagine there would be a significant difference in snap rolls because it seems that M14 has bigger ailerons and more swept wings.

Thank you,
Yannis
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Old 05-15-2017, 01:28 PM
  #43
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I flew both with the contra power. With the contra, I concluded that the M-14 is better without the canalizer.It is just for me and when flying AMA Masters.I think the canalizer is good for extreme knife-edge maneuvers like FAI-F and unknowns.The rudder mixes are practically zero in the M-14 without canalizer.With canalizer the mixes are higher but goes to almost zero when doing knife edge loop for example.I would like JM to build a canopy with not canalizer and save some reinforcing weight.I need to contact him again.
In this conditions snaps in both planes are similar.
This is my opinion and could change a lot between different pilots.
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Old 05-16-2017, 12:16 PM
  #44
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Hi, guys !
I have now many flights on my white M 14. I still prefer CG in front of wingtube .....I have flown with the Falcon 19,5 x 13 , 3 blade and i like the presentation in the air. Compared to the yellow M 14, JM has certainly changed a couple of things. The rolling tendency on knife edge has disappeared, meaning that the dihedral in the wings has been picked just right for endless knife edge. The slight up trim on elevator needed for level flight has also been taken out with the new model, so i am still amazed just before takeoff to have a model with no visible trimming needed.
To support the topving i have a whole bulkhead inside the canopy and after trimming the "best" angle i simply epoxy the topwing to the canopy!! It works.
JM tests and adjusts his models untill perfection and that is what has been done between the 2 M 14 i have flown.
Why should contra not work on this model ?
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Old 05-16-2017, 02:55 PM
  #45
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Probably I confused some. The contra works extremely well for me. I forgot to mention that I added fences in the stabs in both the Gadious and M-14. This I think this is related with contra. Just my opinion.
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