Pattern Participation
11-05-2014, 05:14 AM
#26
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And the participation thread dies.
Exactly what is happening to participation.
Couple of new people expressed an interest, did all you veterans jump up and say "Hey welcome, how can we help you get involved?" "What can we do to help bring "Pattern" to your club?(We love guests and guest presentations at our club meetings)"
As a new person looking in, I get the feeling that your really not interested in having new people become involved.
Bill covered it pretty well. I plan on learning to fly the "Patterns" because I want to and I think that type of flying is cool. Will I be heading to any contests? Probably not.
Exactly what is happening to participation.
Couple of new people expressed an interest, did all you veterans jump up and say "Hey welcome, how can we help you get involved?" "What can we do to help bring "Pattern" to your club?(We love guests and guest presentations at our club meetings)"
As a new person looking in, I get the feeling that your really not interested in having new people become involved.
Bill covered it pretty well. I plan on learning to fly the "Patterns" because I want to and I think that type of flying is cool. Will I be heading to any contests? Probably not.
11-05-2014, 07:43 AM
#27
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And the participation thread dies.
Exactly what is happening to participation.
Couple of new people expressed an interest, did all you veterans jump up and say "Hey welcome, how can we help you get involved?" "What can we do to help bring "Pattern" to your club?(We love guests and guest presentations at our club meetings)"
As a new person looking in, I get the feeling that your really not interested in having new people become involved.
Bill covered it pretty well. I plan on learning to fly the "Patterns" because I want to and I think that type of flying is cool. Will I be heading to any contests? Probably not.
Exactly what is happening to participation.
Couple of new people expressed an interest, did all you veterans jump up and say "Hey welcome, how can we help you get involved?" "What can we do to help bring "Pattern" to your club?(We love guests and guest presentations at our club meetings)"
As a new person looking in, I get the feeling that your really not interested in having new people become involved.
Bill covered it pretty well. I plan on learning to fly the "Patterns" because I want to and I think that type of flying is cool. Will I be heading to any contests? Probably not.
11-05-2014, 08:35 AM
#28
There are plenty of Guys/Gals out there that help and mentor new people interested inflying precision type flying. I mentor/share information and help all sorts of people of all ages and interests. Mentoring two right now, one 14 and one 49.
However, you "will not" find an abundance of volunteers from the upper echelon of the hobby/sport, unless there is something in for them (the $)and not all of them. Getting knowledge from the top, becomes very selective unfortunately for the "Who's Who" of the hobby in the class of the rising stars (not all of them, a few share well, most don't). The important thing is...., you can get support from most anywhere, if you ask. The knowledge pool out there is very large from all the classes.
The best advice I ever received when I started asking for help with pattern flying set up's and some refining of my flying skills, flying FAI/F3A was this. Get a guy/gal you know and fly with and get them to study the maneuvers’, geometry, centering and the areas of common downgrades (understand the rules). Have this person call for you at first, both memorize the sequence and then, have him/her judge you every practice flight. I followed the advice and it helped tremendously, a friend of mine got interested in the hobby, hadn't even solo'd yet, but he studied the FAI/F3A power point presentations and the maneuvers with me.
Please don't be afraid to attend a contest, just about anyone you meet in the contest ranks will help you at a contest, especially as a new participant to pattern. I can say that's true at just about every contest I've flown.
The flip side of the coin is this, I've helped mentored and even given pattern planes away to those that had a passion for Pattern/Imac. The following year the shinny object distraction got them. Many guy's don't like to teach/mentor new people until an investment into the sport is made (usually time). To be very competitive you have to be dedicated to it and find the discipline at the field to practice precision flying week in and week out during the contest season. This is the key ingredient that causes most to drop out, the dedication to it, it's still fun,but it can also feel like a second job.
Everyone coming into pattern or Imac should set realistic goals to accomplish every season, whether it's to just fly and have fun, associate with friends or be the serious student that studies the game book for game day. I’ve been both,when it gets to serious..., I have to remind myself it’s a hobby, not my profession and just get out and have some fun.
The pattern district I fly in use to be pretty bad on judging with preference points going to the good ol'e "click" buddy! That has since stopped..., for the most part, so I hear. With peer judging you're going to have those hurdles or challenges from time to time. I didn't fly last season (once and felt snubbed) this season I didn't compete, but I practiced every weekend. Next year 2015, I'm going to fly both IMAC and Pattern, more pattern, because the district is smaller, but that's still under consideration...,lol.
JohnFH, Feel free to PM me anytime, if you have questions about getting in precision flying. I don't mind sharing knowledge..
Bill
And the participation thread dies.
Exactly what is happening to participation.
Couple of new people expressed an interest, did all you veterans jump up and say "Hey welcome, how can we help you get involved?" "What can we do to help bring "Pattern" to your club?(We love guests and guest presentations at our club meetings)"
As a new person looking in, I get the feeling that your really not interested in having new people become involved.
Bill covered it pretty well. I plan on learning to fly the "Patterns" because I want to and I think that type of flying is cool. Will I be heading to any contests? Probably not.
Exactly what is happening to participation.
Couple of new people expressed an interest, did all you veterans jump up and say "Hey welcome, how can we help you get involved?" "What can we do to help bring "Pattern" to your club?(We love guests and guest presentations at our club meetings)"
As a new person looking in, I get the feeling that your really not interested in having new people become involved.
Bill covered it pretty well. I plan on learning to fly the "Patterns" because I want to and I think that type of flying is cool. Will I be heading to any contests? Probably not.
Last edited by AmericanSpectre505; 11-05-2014 at 08:51 AM.
11-05-2014, 08:53 AM
#30
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http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/rc-p...rn-2014-a.html
Post #23 describes a person's first pattern contest. Individual experiences may vary, but it reads pretty positive. And I can say as a "relatively" new pattern flier (7 contests in 4 years) that I have never, ever, been to a contest where everyone wasn't welcoming, friendly, and willing to bend over backwards to help the new contestants.
One problem I'm finding is encouraging people to actually attend/participate in a contest. I think one thing that helps is the availability of a local contest, an hour or less from home. Avoids the long travel and logistics, just another weekend at the field for the new person. And if that local contest is a positive experience (like my first contest even though it was 3 hours away) it is a lot more fun to pack up for a weekend away from home, flying at a new field, and spending quality time with a variety of people who share a common hobby.
Post #23 describes a person's first pattern contest. Individual experiences may vary, but it reads pretty positive. And I can say as a "relatively" new pattern flier (7 contests in 4 years) that I have never, ever, been to a contest where everyone wasn't welcoming, friendly, and willing to bend over backwards to help the new contestants.
One problem I'm finding is encouraging people to actually attend/participate in a contest. I think one thing that helps is the availability of a local contest, an hour or less from home. Avoids the long travel and logistics, just another weekend at the field for the new person. And if that local contest is a positive experience (like my first contest even though it was 3 hours away) it is a lot more fun to pack up for a weekend away from home, flying at a new field, and spending quality time with a variety of people who share a common hobby.
11-05-2014, 08:54 AM
#31
My Feedback: (6)
Bill I appreciate the offer and when I have questions, I'll be sure to ask.
The bigger issue I'm running into, is the lack of events close enough to realistic for me to travel too. The majority looking, at past calenders, are 5 to 6 hours away. Doing a few of say larger events a year with mostly more local stuff is more pratical for me, but currently not an option based on the event schedule.
Which results in the "catch 22" of needing more local participation to be able to get people interested in local events.
The bigger issue I'm running into, is the lack of events close enough to realistic for me to travel too. The majority looking, at past calenders, are 5 to 6 hours away. Doing a few of say larger events a year with mostly more local stuff is more pratical for me, but currently not an option based on the event schedule.
Which results in the "catch 22" of needing more local participation to be able to get people interested in local events.
11-05-2014, 08:58 AM
#32
I know it's difficult, the Virginia contest are about 4-6 hours for me also. Archie Stafford usually hold two contests in MD.
Start you're own contest...., they will come!
Bill
Start you're own contest...., they will come!
Bill
Bill I appreciate the offer and when I have questions, I'll be sure to ask.
The bigger issue I'm running into, is the lack of events close enough to realistic for me to travel too. The majority looking, at past calenders, are 5 to 6 hours away. Doing a few of say larger events a year with mostly more local stuff is more pratical for me, but currently not an option based on the event schedule.
Which results in the "catch 22" of needing more local participation to be able to get people interested in local events.
The bigger issue I'm running into, is the lack of events close enough to realistic for me to travel too. The majority looking, at past calenders, are 5 to 6 hours away. Doing a few of say larger events a year with mostly more local stuff is more pratical for me, but currently not an option based on the event schedule.
Which results in the "catch 22" of needing more local participation to be able to get people interested in local events.
11-05-2014, 10:22 AM
#35
There are certainly great guys and great times to be had at events and yes, more contests in a smaller localized area is great. I've had fellow competitors offer me the use of a plane, if mine broke and like wise in return. The fellowship has never been the issue...............
My post "For what it's worth" is a systemic problem that has plagues the competition circuit, especially the upper class schedules in general and the politics that go with it, drives people out of the sport eventually. I'm not saying the guy's at the top don't belong there, just saying that bias judging is harmful to the development of up and coming tallent. Seen it happen way to many times in my 20 plus years of doing this.
Example; You establish a name, reputation, a long list of sponsors, the little guy in the same class can't win, even if the little guy flies better that day. Who want's to deal with that every contest (fix it through honesty and follow the sporting code)? To become that guy with the team shirt on, you have to take the ***** whoop'in week in and week out for years (it's a personal choice to invest or not). My post is about retention and places to fix the special interests (competition) of the hobby. Refresh the image..............
Participation goes back to my first post, who what's to join a fraternity of men/women when the word on the street says.., it's political and corrupt and you can only get so far? That's over exaggerating it, but regardless, if that is the truth or not, it keeps people away for one and two, it drives people away who have experience it first hand over and over.
One experience I will share from 2009, first contest of the season. There are two of us in FAI/F3A, one a Team pilot for Futaba and me not a team pilot, but not without sponsors. I had been practicing most of the winter and spring with a new plane. The Team guy flew the schedule for the first time on Friday before the contest and showed up on Saturday. He flew first and should have no doubt zerored three manuevors for executing several 3/4 rolls for 3 of 4 point rolls, etc. I flew next and our general scores were about the same, but I got the three zero's instead. I asked the judges why and they said..., get this; they figured so- and so- flew it correctly and didn't question the manuevor. A half a dozen other pilots saw the samething and it came up after the round was over, was I pissed.....No, very disappointed with the Halo treatment! I went over and told my pattern friend/competitior about the mistakes in a very nice way, didn't have to.
Please don't think I'm bitter about judging, it happens to everyone in one way or another and if you can tollerate it, you can eventually find sucess. Bottom line..., (Generalized statement) Just be honest, know and understand what you are judging, if you don't ,........ Don't get in the chair.
That way you can provide intelligent feed back to the Halo pilot that come to argue the zero with you.
It's a great hobby and a great sport...dang it..., anyone seen my Team shirt anywhere?
My post "For what it's worth" is a systemic problem that has plagues the competition circuit, especially the upper class schedules in general and the politics that go with it, drives people out of the sport eventually. I'm not saying the guy's at the top don't belong there, just saying that bias judging is harmful to the development of up and coming tallent. Seen it happen way to many times in my 20 plus years of doing this.
Example; You establish a name, reputation, a long list of sponsors, the little guy in the same class can't win, even if the little guy flies better that day. Who want's to deal with that every contest (fix it through honesty and follow the sporting code)? To become that guy with the team shirt on, you have to take the ***** whoop'in week in and week out for years (it's a personal choice to invest or not). My post is about retention and places to fix the special interests (competition) of the hobby. Refresh the image..............
Participation goes back to my first post, who what's to join a fraternity of men/women when the word on the street says.., it's political and corrupt and you can only get so far? That's over exaggerating it, but regardless, if that is the truth or not, it keeps people away for one and two, it drives people away who have experience it first hand over and over.
One experience I will share from 2009, first contest of the season. There are two of us in FAI/F3A, one a Team pilot for Futaba and me not a team pilot, but not without sponsors. I had been practicing most of the winter and spring with a new plane. The Team guy flew the schedule for the first time on Friday before the contest and showed up on Saturday. He flew first and should have no doubt zerored three manuevors for executing several 3/4 rolls for 3 of 4 point rolls, etc. I flew next and our general scores were about the same, but I got the three zero's instead. I asked the judges why and they said..., get this; they figured so- and so- flew it correctly and didn't question the manuevor. A half a dozen other pilots saw the samething and it came up after the round was over, was I pissed.....No, very disappointed with the Halo treatment! I went over and told my pattern friend/competitior about the mistakes in a very nice way, didn't have to.
Please don't think I'm bitter about judging, it happens to everyone in one way or another and if you can tollerate it, you can eventually find sucess. Bottom line..., (Generalized statement) Just be honest, know and understand what you are judging, if you don't ,........ Don't get in the chair.
That way you can provide intelligent feed back to the Halo pilot that come to argue the zero with you. It's a great hobby and a great sport...dang it..., anyone seen my Team shirt anywhere?
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/rc-p...rn-2014-a.html
Post #23 describes a person's first pattern contest. Individual experiences may vary, but it reads pretty positive. And I can say as a "relatively" new pattern flier (7 contests in 4 years) that I have never, ever, been to a contest where everyone wasn't welcoming, friendly, and willing to bend over backwards to help the new contestants.
One problem I'm finding is encouraging people to actually attend/participate in a contest. I think one thing that helps is the availability of a local contest, an hour or less from home. Avoids the long travel and logistics, just another weekend at the field for the new person. And if that local contest is a positive experience (like my first contest even though it was 3 hours away) it is a lot more fun to pack up for a weekend away from home, flying at a new field, and spending quality time with a variety of people who share a common hobby.
Post #23 describes a person's first pattern contest. Individual experiences may vary, but it reads pretty positive. And I can say as a "relatively" new pattern flier (7 contests in 4 years) that I have never, ever, been to a contest where everyone wasn't welcoming, friendly, and willing to bend over backwards to help the new contestants.
One problem I'm finding is encouraging people to actually attend/participate in a contest. I think one thing that helps is the availability of a local contest, an hour or less from home. Avoids the long travel and logistics, just another weekend at the field for the new person. And if that local contest is a positive experience (like my first contest even though it was 3 hours away) it is a lot more fun to pack up for a weekend away from home, flying at a new field, and spending quality time with a variety of people who share a common hobby.
11-05-2014, 11:24 AM
#36
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What do you all think about combining IMAC and Pattern into a single event? Just have different classes/routines for the specific airframes but all part of the same competition. Right now it seems the 2 are fighting each other for market share if you will, but the two are so similar that they should combine forces and work as one. I wonder if that would help to bring up the numbers. Here in South Florida, we fly all year but rarely do we get a good precision contest.
11-05-2014, 11:49 AM
#37
What do you all think about combining IMAC and Pattern into a single event? Just have different classes/routines for the specific airframes but all part of the same competition. Right now it seems the 2 are fighting each other for market share if you will, but the two are so similar that they should combine forces and work as one. I wonder if that would help to bring up the numbers. Here in South Florida, we fly all year but rarely do we get a good precision contest.
11-05-2014, 12:07 PM
#38
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I agree with corch in reply #30 in this thread. That guy that wrote reply #23 in the St. Clairsville Pattern 2014, is one heck of a guy. While this was my first pattern contest, I've been to hundreds of sailplane contests back in the 70's, so I was not intimidated by the competitive atmosphere. My advice to a newbie to competition would be to realize that these are like minded people as far as modeling goes. Just like most local clubs some people are open to help you while others well, can't be bothered. My opinion is seek out those that want to share their knowledge and accept help from others if they offer. Also be willing to accept the suggestions of those more experienced than you. Imagine a 64 year old fart with 42 years of RCing under his belt taking suggestions from a 10 year old kid. Which I did gladly because that 10 year old young Man is more experienced than I.
While this was my first pattern contest, I've been to hundreds of sailplane contests back in the 70's, so I was not intimidated by the competitive atmosphere. My advice to a newbie to competition would be to realize that these are like minded people as far as modeling goes. Just like most local clubs some people are open to help you while others well, can't be bothered. My opinion is seek out those that want to share their knowledge and accept help from others if they offer. Also be willing to accept the suggestions of those more experienced than you. Imagine a 64 year old fart with 42 years of RCing under his belt taking suggestions from a 10 year old kid. Which I did gladly because that 10 year old young Man is more experienced than I.
11-05-2014, 01:25 PM
#40
Very much agree.....
Having flown both.., the judging system and the judging criteria (as stated) are way different, but similar. Having come from the IMAC world myself before pattern there is an adjustment in flying styles that are different from one to the other. The point deduction systems are different, pattern still flies a box and IMAC did away with it years ago (they should still use a center line). The schedule of maneuvers are even different. They compliment each other well enough, but the nuances between the two are not yet compatible enough to blend them.
I think having a 50cc-100cc pattern/IMAC Hybrid type air frame would give you the best of both worlds. I had even wanted to scratch build a 38% Black Magic VF3 variation (I couldn't secure plans for it) and put a 85cc or 100cc in it. That could provide the fascination of flying Pattern/IMAC blended schedules with characteristics of a pattern plane and the IMAC size to boot.
Food for thought.......Hummm.. A 50-60cc size Epic would be VERY KOOL!
The most controversial judging comes from snaps and spins and the die hard snap/spin NAZI's have there own judging criteria, different from the majority. I feel you're pain...LOL.
Regard's
Bill
Having flown both.., the judging system and the judging criteria (as stated) are way different, but similar. Having come from the IMAC world myself before pattern there is an adjustment in flying styles that are different from one to the other. The point deduction systems are different, pattern still flies a box and IMAC did away with it years ago (they should still use a center line). The schedule of maneuvers are even different. They compliment each other well enough, but the nuances between the two are not yet compatible enough to blend them.
I think having a 50cc-100cc pattern/IMAC Hybrid type air frame would give you the best of both worlds. I had even wanted to scratch build a 38% Black Magic VF3 variation (I couldn't secure plans for it) and put a 85cc or 100cc in it. That could provide the fascination of flying Pattern/IMAC blended schedules with characteristics of a pattern plane and the IMAC size to boot.
Food for thought.......Hummm.. A 50-60cc size Epic would be VERY KOOL!
The most controversial judging comes from snaps and spins and the die hard snap/spin NAZI's have there own judging criteria, different from the majority. I feel you're pain...LOL.
Regard's
Bill
The issue with combining the two is IMO there just is not enough day light in the day. I have been to IMAC contests where we had 50 pilots and that was really about the limit of what can be done in a single day. So if there was a combination contest that had both, getting through 2 rounds per day would be quite a task. I think the 2 formats would be really difficult on the CD as well. Judging would be a possible issue as in some cases the same maneuver is not judged the same between the two.There is the Halo effect. If anyone thinks they are going to show up as an unfamiliar face and win, the odds are against you. The familiar face gets the brownie point. Then there is the need for qualified judges. I wont say where and when but I once flew a pattern contest in advanced class. There were two snap rolls in the sequence. One round I was given an 8.5 and 9 from one judge and 2 and 2 from the other judge. At the end of the round I politely asked the judge what my deductions were. Several comments really stuck with me during that conversation " you did not stall the airplane during the snap ", " The snap was too slow" and the best one " When I saw you fly the morning round I thought to myself you should have been zeroed for your snaps ". That was my first pattern contest after flying IMAC for 12 years so obviously I was not a familiar face. To get more participation we need to demonstrate to perspective pilots that they will be scored fairly. The only way to do that is hold judging seminars in each region at the beginning of the season. Judges need to not only be on the same page but need to be judging according to the written criteria and have enough ethics to not be bias. As much as I hated to do it I have given several of my buddies zeroes when it was the right thing to do but if your not willing to put all things aside and judge fairly then don't get in the chair.
Last edited by AmericanSpectre505; 11-05-2014 at 01:29 PM.
11-05-2014, 01:40 PM
#41
Senior Member
One experience I will share from 2009, first contest of the season. There are two of us in FAI/F3A, one a Team pilot for Futaba and me not a team pilot, but not without sponsors. I had been practicing most of the winter and spring with a new plane. The Team guy flew the schedule for the first time on Friday before the contest and showed up on Saturday. He flew first and should have no doubt zerored three manuevors for executing several 3/4 rolls for 3 of 4 point rolls, etc. I flew next and our general scores were about the same, but I got the three zero's instead. I asked the judges why and they said..., get this; they figured so- and so- flew it correctly and didn't question the manuevor. A half a dozen other pilots saw the samething and it came up after the round was over, was I pissed.....No, very disappointed with the Halo treatment! I went over and told my pattern friend/competitior about the mistakes in a very nice way, didn't have to.
It's a great hobby and a great sport...dang it..., anyone seen my Team shirt anywhere?
It's a great hobby and a great sport...dang it..., anyone seen my Team shirt anywhere?
The general Judging requirements (found in the Judging section of the website) can't be gone over enough in my opinion. We do pay them some lip service in the Judging classes but how much of that sticks? Well, by Bill's viewpoint, not much... and a real shame, particulary since so many of us have put in a tremendous amount of time and effort to do justice to Judging.
Jim, apologies for diverting your thread a bit. Flying Pattern events and Judging Pattern events have always been Siamese twins. Always will be. And both require practice...
11-05-2014, 07:21 PM
#42
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The bigger issue I'm running into, is the lack of events close enough to realistic for me to travel too. The majority looking, at past calenders, are 5 to 6 hours away. Doing a few of say larger events a year with mostly more local stuff is more pratical for me, but currently not an option based on the event schedule.
John, in the spring I was googling and found the Hudson Valley Radio Control Club in Haverstraw, with a pattern event. I went down and shot a ton of pictures. See the note below, their annual event.
The people there were really really friendly - some guys were flying pattern with the $7k planes that were mentioned, some with Das Ugly Stik's...
Pattern is above my skill level right now, but I wonder if there is room for an Old Time Pattern movement, like the Old Time Stunt (OTS) in Control line which caused a revival.
As a note, discovering the revolution in electrics and foam got me back into the hobby/sport/obsession but I soon started yearning for a fuel fix. Now I am stocked up in electric, glow, diesel, and gas inventory - ha.
I like the elegance of the pattern planes, but doubt I will develop a program where I need 50cc and above.
COMING UP IN 2014!!
05/17/2014 - (AAA) Haverstraw Pattern Challenge
Category: RC Aerobatics
Come join us at our beautiful site for a one day pattern contest.
Sportsman demos and coaching for new pilots. Any AMA legal airplane that is
under 95db @ 25’ is allowed in sportsman.
CD: ANTHONY T ROMANO Phone: 914-373-4804 email: [email protected]
11-05-2014, 08:53 PM
#43
11-06-2014, 12:37 PM
#44
Thread Starter
And the participation thread dies.
Exactly what is happening to participation.
Couple of new people expressed an interest, did all you veterans jump up and say "Hey welcome, how can we help you get involved?" "What can we do to help bring "Pattern" to your club?(We love guests and guest presentations at our club meetings)"
As a new person looking in, I get the feeling that your really not interested in having new people become involved.
Bill covered it pretty well. I plan on learning to fly the "Patterns" because I want to and I think that type of flying is cool. Will I be heading to any contests? Probably not.
Exactly what is happening to participation.
Couple of new people expressed an interest, did all you veterans jump up and say "Hey welcome, how can we help you get involved?" "What can we do to help bring "Pattern" to your club?(We love guests and guest presentations at our club meetings)"
As a new person looking in, I get the feeling that your really not interested in having new people become involved.
Bill covered it pretty well. I plan on learning to fly the "Patterns" because I want to and I think that type of flying is cool. Will I be heading to any contests? Probably not.
John, you are exactly the type of guy I was thinking about when I brought this subject up. I am not making a case for increased attendance at pattern contests, I'm suggesting we need some non-contest events where people can have fun with other pilots with similar interests. We have Pattern Wednesday every week at our field in Arvin and there is usually 6 to 9 guys with a large range of talent just having fun. Only two or three are gung-ho contest pilots. I've only gone to one contest per year for the last three years but I still love pattern and the stuff it takes to get ready for a contest, but with no deadlines. One of the gun-ho guys right now is Steve Lampert who just won the District 7 Sportsman Championship. I don't know his complete history, but I know he has been building beautiful pattern planes for many years but was never involved with competition. But I'm convinced that after hanging out with some of us old guys who fly pattern but are not all about going to contests, he decided to give it a try. I believe there are many others out there who would love to fly for fun with guys like us and out of that group many would discover that competition is fun too and would give it a try. The idea is to get more people flying pattern airplanes, buying pattern motors, ESCs, batteries, etc., contributing to pattern in a variety of ways so it becomes more attractive to many more and everyone wins including those who want more contestants.
Jim O
11-06-2014, 02:40 PM
#45
I think if we can just get more people flying in general, and get some of them to fly sport planes in specific...we can by default generate more interest in pattern flying. I don't think you will get many non-competitive types to participate in contests..it's not their nature. If seasoned pilots can resist the urge to promote expensive composite planes and high dollar motors to prospective new pilots, and steer new folks to Sticks and Kaos type airplanes we will get good numbers.
11-06-2014, 02:51 PM
#46
I think that classic pattern has done a great job at gaining some new interest. The airplanes are very close to sport aircraft and the sequences are pretty obtainable. I would like to see more ARF classics available but not sure this is going to happen. It seems Horizon already gave up. There are a good number of reproduction short kits available but the guys who will build are already pattern addicts. I think it just boils down to the fact that the guys who want to compete whether it be pattern, IMAC, racing or whatever are going to do so. We are just at the point when fewer guys want to be competitive in their hobby.
11-06-2014, 06:52 PM
#47
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Hi Guys,
This thread touches on quite a few items that can affect participation in our special interest. The problems seem to be more or less the same the world over. Surprise, surprise....
Just looking at fresh blood for the moment, I had the thought last night that flying in front of judges is the same as sitting a final exam at school, college or university. Who likes sitting exams? Not many people I'll bet! One could also assume that all the practice we do outside pattern events is simply study for the exam.
So, it seems that people who are reluctant to have a go at pattern think they haven't studied (practiced) enough for the exam (event). They are keen but don't take the next step. Sometimes they even buy an F3A style model too. How can this problem be addressed? That is the million dollar question.... Perhaps some teachers or lecturers out there could comment on ways they prepare students for big exams? Possibly something can be applied to potential pattern pilots...
With regards to existing pattern pilot participation, most issues touched on in this thread are within our control. Poor judging really gets down to education and management/discipline. This is where the national body plays a big part. There could also be other factors like health issues etc but that would be up to the CD of the event to manage appropriately.
Cheers,
Jason.
This thread touches on quite a few items that can affect participation in our special interest. The problems seem to be more or less the same the world over. Surprise, surprise....
Just looking at fresh blood for the moment, I had the thought last night that flying in front of judges is the same as sitting a final exam at school, college or university. Who likes sitting exams? Not many people I'll bet! One could also assume that all the practice we do outside pattern events is simply study for the exam.
So, it seems that people who are reluctant to have a go at pattern think they haven't studied (practiced) enough for the exam (event). They are keen but don't take the next step. Sometimes they even buy an F3A style model too. How can this problem be addressed? That is the million dollar question.... Perhaps some teachers or lecturers out there could comment on ways they prepare students for big exams? Possibly something can be applied to potential pattern pilots...
With regards to existing pattern pilot participation, most issues touched on in this thread are within our control. Poor judging really gets down to education and management/discipline. This is where the national body plays a big part. There could also be other factors like health issues etc but that would be up to the CD of the event to manage appropriately.
Cheers,
Jason.
11-07-2014, 06:37 PM
#48
Hi Guys,
This thread touches on quite a few items that can affect participation in our special interest. The problems seem to be more or less the same the world over. Surprise, surprise....
Just looking at fresh blood for the moment, I had the thought last night that flying in front of judges is the same as sitting a final exam at school, college or university. Who likes sitting exams? Not many people I'll bet! One could also assume that all the practice we do outside pattern events is simply study for the exam.
So, it seems that people who are reluctant to have a go at pattern think they haven't studied (practiced) enough for the exam (event). They are keen but don't take the next step. Sometimes they even buy an F3A style model too. How can this problem be addressed? That is the million dollar question.... Perhaps some teachers or lecturers out there could comment on ways they prepare students for big exams? Possibly something can be applied to potential pattern pilots...
Cheers,
Jason.
This thread touches on quite a few items that can affect participation in our special interest. The problems seem to be more or less the same the world over. Surprise, surprise....
Just looking at fresh blood for the moment, I had the thought last night that flying in front of judges is the same as sitting a final exam at school, college or university. Who likes sitting exams? Not many people I'll bet! One could also assume that all the practice we do outside pattern events is simply study for the exam.
So, it seems that people who are reluctant to have a go at pattern think they haven't studied (practiced) enough for the exam (event). They are keen but don't take the next step. Sometimes they even buy an F3A style model too. How can this problem be addressed? That is the million dollar question.... Perhaps some teachers or lecturers out there could comment on ways they prepare students for big exams? Possibly something can be applied to potential pattern pilots...
Cheers,
Jason.
So what does this have to do with pattern? Only that you never know what can happen in a contest. My first DLG contest and I got a second place. What a way to start out!! I'll try it again, no doubt. So to get to the moral of the story.... Try a pattern contest. You never know what might happen... But I feel I'm preaching to the choir here.
Ken
11-07-2014, 07:08 PM
#49
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Hudson Valley. New York. USA
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The world changed and model aircraft are not alone in the changing lifestyles. It used to be in many cases the man of the house would have his personal time on the weekend, be it golf, sailing, poker, whatever. Then, in the last decade, golf and sailing clubs couldn't GIVE their memberships away. The yacht club where i lived had dropped their membership from $25,000 to - get this - $2,000. Golf clubs are closing regularly. They turn the courses in Florida into more condos and townhouses. Many golf courses near me had companies like the Toll Brothers salivating to get their full-size Tonka toys to work, building $1,000,000 homes. These days things are a lot more family oriented - just look at how many activities kids are in these days. Their schedules are filled with sports, extracurricular activities, summer camps the whole summer through. Or, else, bumming around in the basement with video games has superceded getting out and doing something more productive. At most, kids, and I mean guys, trick out a computer these days where we used to be under the hood of a car. Golf clubs and sailing clubs have had the same challenges - there weren't young entrants. In the case of sailing, I was part of a circuit of one-designs (all same design, about equal boats - many restrictions on altering the boat to compete) and we had a gent who is virtually the Derek Jeter of sailing. He shared so willingly that he was this great, positive force everywhere he went. He wasn't obstructed by ego in the least. In fact, he took dinghy sailing breakthroughs up-market into larger boats and took international championships by sailing those bigger boats like they were dinghies (innovation). We can rebuild the ranks of RC and C/L again if we are aware what it takes. Guys like me getting back into the sport/hobby/obsession are big market. Real shepherding of ANYONE who shows interest. Letting non-flyers try it out, get them hooked. Have more open houses that are better publicized. In general, raise the awareness quotient internally to be promoting externally. Near me, Haverstraw has done an amazing job of bringing the public into the hobby. They have Haverstraw Days or something like that where 500 people show up.
I have an interest in pattern because I know it will make things more interesting and I will be a better flyer. I am not intimidated by competition because I am mainly competing against myself. There is an esprit de cours about participating. In sailing, guys would scramble to help someone get their boat in shape to sail the next weekend if something happened - there was just an innate feeling that the more, the merrier. Winter sailing, called frostbiting, had dwindled to 5-6 boats on the line (a little sadistic, sailing through the winter in Rochester, NY in the river that rarely froze over due to the current. Or, all those Kodak chemicals in the water, I am not exactly sure which). By shear promotion the starting line was built to 25-30, me included. Ever take a tumble out of a boat into 28 degree water? How did they get that many people on the line, renewing that much interest? Mostly by one-to-one invitations to try it out. In sailing, I advanced far more quickly in that setting (friendly competition) than if I just sailed around on my own.
Come on, you gotta admit, RC is cool - spread the love(!)
I have an interest in pattern because I know it will make things more interesting and I will be a better flyer. I am not intimidated by competition because I am mainly competing against myself. There is an esprit de cours about participating. In sailing, guys would scramble to help someone get their boat in shape to sail the next weekend if something happened - there was just an innate feeling that the more, the merrier. Winter sailing, called frostbiting, had dwindled to 5-6 boats on the line (a little sadistic, sailing through the winter in Rochester, NY in the river that rarely froze over due to the current. Or, all those Kodak chemicals in the water, I am not exactly sure which). By shear promotion the starting line was built to 25-30, me included. Ever take a tumble out of a boat into 28 degree water? How did they get that many people on the line, renewing that much interest? Mostly by one-to-one invitations to try it out. In sailing, I advanced far more quickly in that setting (friendly competition) than if I just sailed around on my own.
Come on, you gotta admit, RC is cool - spread the love(!)
Last edited by BrightGarden; 11-07-2014 at 07:13 PM.
11-08-2014, 04:54 PM
#50
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: West Haverstraw,
NY
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As president of HVRCC (Hudson Valley Radio Control Club), or "The Haverstraw club," I can tell you that we try really hard to engage the public. For the last five years we have hosted the "Town of Haverstraw Air Show." With the help of the Town, we have been very successful in introducing the public to model aviation. This year the Town gave out over 750 hot dogs and we buddy boxed over 100 kids of all ages on a separate flightline. Those that just come to watch get to see everything from ugly stiks to 42% planes with an occasional jet thrown in. Needless to say the show has been a big success and the Town is very pleased! This is what we as a club bring to the community and I'm proud of our people for all that they do to make us who we are.
Now as for the Pattern participation, two years ago club member Anthony Romano expressed interest in having a Pattern primer. As club president, I have always encouraged members to promote their interests. The primer went very well and this year we hosted our first Pattern event. Having 5 or 6 Pattern guys in the club made having this event a no brainer. I think we had 17 pilots that day and we ran the Sportsman class. A few club members came out just for that alone. They were given all of the help that they wanted, and the guys in the upper classes were great coaches and judges. I competed in Sportsman and was happy to have people correct my mistakes. I learned the proper way to do manuevers that I fly all of the time.
With that being said, we plan on doing another event in the Spring and I plan on going to some more as well. Some of the events are a bit of a drive, but I feel it's worth the effort to go. As with anything that's worth it, you have to give to gain.
Now as for the Pattern participation, two years ago club member Anthony Romano expressed interest in having a Pattern primer. As club president, I have always encouraged members to promote their interests. The primer went very well and this year we hosted our first Pattern event. Having 5 or 6 Pattern guys in the club made having this event a no brainer. I think we had 17 pilots that day and we ran the Sportsman class. A few club members came out just for that alone. They were given all of the help that they wanted, and the guys in the upper classes were great coaches and judges. I competed in Sportsman and was happy to have people correct my mistakes. I learned the proper way to do manuevers that I fly all of the time.
With that being said, we plan on doing another event in the Spring and I plan on going to some more as well. Some of the events are a bit of a drive, but I feel it's worth the effort to go. As with anything that's worth it, you have to give to gain.