BJ CRAFT new plane Invitation...
04-20-2015, 11:24 PM
#77
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Valencia,
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Hi. BHolsten
Loing time no see! How are you been?
This Rapicon fuel is using high purity chemicals. it is main thing about good fuel.
and I just got 33% nitro, 9% oil fuel.
Alex W. Shim.
Loing time no see! How are you been?
This Rapicon fuel is using high purity chemicals. it is main thing about good fuel.
and I just got 33% nitro, 9% oil fuel.
Alex W. Shim.
04-20-2015, 11:31 PM
#78
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Valencia,
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Hello, Sungho
Looking good
Are you planning to use nose ring mounting for that gas engine?
Also, please up-date how to installing engine mount and piping.
thanks!
Alex W. Shim.
Looking good
Are you planning to use nose ring mounting for that gas engine?
Also, please up-date how to installing engine mount and piping.
thanks!
Alex W. Shim.
04-21-2015, 08:16 AM
#79
Senior Member
Sungho,
What does the hatori exhaust system weigh? I use ESComposites full pipe, #40G, on mine. Pipe weight is 110 grams. Header and extension at the same as you. Couplers are my own design ceramic cloth types
My rubber iso mounts for this size engine weigh about 75 grams ready to go. Yours at 140+ can shed quite a bit of weight. I outlined how I do mine in a different thread here on RCU.
What does the hatori exhaust system weigh? I use ESComposites full pipe, #40G, on mine. Pipe weight is 110 grams. Header and extension at the same as you. Couplers are my own design ceramic cloth types
My rubber iso mounts for this size engine weigh about 75 grams ready to go. Yours at 140+ can shed quite a bit of weight. I outlined how I do mine in a different thread here on RCU.
04-21-2015, 12:12 PM
#80
Hello Alex,
I've busy overseas and other things. I'm ready to return to flying competition again.
Hope all is well....
Bill
I've busy overseas and other things. I'm ready to return to flying competition again.
Hope all is well....
Bill
07-06-2015, 01:07 PM
#85
Alex,
How's the Invitation doing, any issues with the YS and air frame yet? I don't anticipate there will be, but I wanted to ask a fair question for a for answer. You don't have to post the answer, just PM me.
Thank's
Bill Holsten
How's the Invitation doing, any issues with the YS and air frame yet? I don't anticipate there will be, but I wanted to ask a fair question for a for answer. You don't have to post the answer, just PM me.
Thank's
Bill Holsten
08-04-2015, 04:58 AM
#86
I think I will be following in your footsteps when I finish my classic pattern project (EU1-A). The more I read about this motor and plane combination, the more it makes sense on many fronts. This would be my first gasser, and I'm happy to avoid electric if it's not neccessary to be competitive in the lower classes. I was a little surprised to see the YS 175/185's (w/o ignition) lighter than the OS. The G-5 glow plug would have been a nice addtition if it worked, saving 3-4 oz. on the ignition. Maybe it's worth another look?
Looking forward to your updates!
Looking forward to your updates!
Last edited by time907356; 08-04-2015 at 05:14 AM.
08-09-2015, 10:28 AM
#87
Anyone else using a YS in this plane? Some air frame's today don't seem to hold up to the vibration of the YS . I wanted to know how well they are holding up before I bite the bullet a order a couple.
Thank's
Bill Holsten
Thank's
Bill Holsten
08-10-2015, 08:22 AM
#89
My Feedback: (41)
Hi Bill I don't think there's a lot of feedback due to so few doing the YS/Gas option.
It's getting more and more scarce from all we have seen lately. Not that I'm saying anything wrong with it just going by the numbers at our contests lately there's not one person flying glow or gas in any plane in the midwest now.
Combined at the last 2 local contests between 60 entries. Plus at the Nationals in Masters not one Glow entry. Just based on the market it doesn't leave a lot of glow/gas info being circulated.
Mike
It's getting more and more scarce from all we have seen lately. Not that I'm saying anything wrong with it just going by the numbers at our contests lately there's not one person flying glow or gas in any plane in the midwest now.
Combined at the last 2 local contests between 60 entries. Plus at the Nationals in Masters not one Glow entry. Just based on the market it doesn't leave a lot of glow/gas info being circulated.
Mike
08-10-2015, 09:54 AM
#90
Hi Bill I don't think there's a lot of feedback due to so few doing the YS/Gas option.
It's getting more and more scarce from all we have seen lately. Not that I'm saying anything wrong with it just going by the numbers at our contests lately there's not one person flying glow or gas in any plane in the midwest now.
Combined at the last 2 local contests between 60 entries. Plus at the Nationals in Masters not one Glow entry. Just based on the market it doesn't leave a lot of glow/gas info being circulated.
Mike
It's getting more and more scarce from all we have seen lately. Not that I'm saying anything wrong with it just going by the numbers at our contests lately there's not one person flying glow or gas in any plane in the midwest now.
Combined at the last 2 local contests between 60 entries. Plus at the Nationals in Masters not one Glow entry. Just based on the market it doesn't leave a lot of glow/gas info being circulated.
Mike
-Tim
Last edited by time907356; 08-10-2015 at 09:59 AM.
08-10-2015, 02:17 PM
#91
Thank's Mike,
I'm on the fence about it. I love the pace of a YS 170DZ, cost of operation is higher. I started to see and hear some guy's switching back. The electric is fine too, had I purchased better batteries to fly FAI the past couple of years, I would have been happier with the over all performance. I purchased 4 sets of zippy 25C-5000 to practice with mostly "a few years ago" (and test, they died last year, lol), not even close to the performance of the F3A Unlimited packs or TP packs. Since I have two like new YS 170's sitting, I was going to use them. I don't want a one season air frame with a YS in it, expensive season and the reason I asked the question.
I like the new battery line you have. BTW, the F3A Unlimited pack is still going strong.
Now that I am back to work and living in VA. I can get serious about competition again, as soon as I find a permanent place to live.
Bill Holsten
I'm on the fence about it. I love the pace of a YS 170DZ, cost of operation is higher. I started to see and hear some guy's switching back. The electric is fine too, had I purchased better batteries to fly FAI the past couple of years, I would have been happier with the over all performance. I purchased 4 sets of zippy 25C-5000 to practice with mostly "a few years ago" (and test, they died last year, lol), not even close to the performance of the F3A Unlimited packs or TP packs. Since I have two like new YS 170's sitting, I was going to use them. I don't want a one season air frame with a YS in it, expensive season and the reason I asked the question.
I like the new battery line you have. BTW, the F3A Unlimited pack is still going strong.
Now that I am back to work and living in VA. I can get serious about competition again, as soon as I find a permanent place to live.
Bill Holsten
Hi Bill I don't think there's a lot of feedback due to so few doing the YS/Gas option.
It's getting more and more scarce from all we have seen lately. Not that I'm saying anything wrong with it just going by the numbers at our contests lately there's not one person flying glow or gas in any plane in the midwest now.
Combined at the last 2 local contests between 60 entries. Plus at the Nationals in Masters not one Glow entry. Just based on the market it doesn't leave a lot of glow/gas info being circulated.
Mike
It's getting more and more scarce from all we have seen lately. Not that I'm saying anything wrong with it just going by the numbers at our contests lately there's not one person flying glow or gas in any plane in the midwest now.
Combined at the last 2 local contests between 60 entries. Plus at the Nationals in Masters not one Glow entry. Just based on the market it doesn't leave a lot of glow/gas info being circulated.
Mike
08-10-2015, 02:23 PM
#92
Thank's
Bill Holsten
3 Time Don Lowe Masters competitor 2000/2001/2003,
2009-NSRCA FAI/F3A District 2 Champion.
Bill Holsten
3 Time Don Lowe Masters competitor 2000/2001/2003,
2009-NSRCA FAI/F3A District 2 Champion.
Mike- Glad you chimed in...I was just about to quote you here, but enough said. Thanks for the time this morning on the phone. Even with the current trends toward electric, the Invitation (glow/gas option) just grabs my attention. Beautiful airplane, even in electric! - I'll be in touch, hopefully sonner than later!
-Tim
-Tim
08-10-2015, 06:24 PM
#93
My Feedback: (41)
Hey Bill great to hear you'll be able to get back in the game.
Hey if you have 2 YS engines working that would be a compelling reason.
Airframes though are made so lightly that the shake and bake of a YS or Gas is problematic and detrimental to it's lifespan.
Tim great talking with you too. We're here when you need us.
Thanks, Mike
Hey if you have 2 YS engines working that would be a compelling reason.
Airframes though are made so lightly that the shake and bake of a YS or Gas is problematic and detrimental to it's lifespan.
Tim great talking with you too. We're here when you need us.
Thanks, Mike
08-11-2015, 06:20 AM
#94
So being a nitro guy, wanting to be a gas guy, you've now talked me into electric. I can't see dumping that amount of coin into an airframe and shaking it apart with an ICE. The 1.75M I'm flying now has that issue with a 120 2s; keeping bolt in and glass from cracking (further).
I still heavily doubt the power/weight ratio favors electric, but that's clearly not the only equation to figure out. Getting a 2M under 11lb. means we have to shed somewhere. Electric is much easier on what remains.
I still heavily doubt the power/weight ratio favors electric, but that's clearly not the only equation to figure out. Getting a 2M under 11lb. means we have to shed somewhere. Electric is much easier on what remains.
08-11-2015, 10:25 AM
#95
Senior Member
Nearly all Pattern airframes available today are for electric set-ups. All of these are plenty strong for IC but will require some mods to install the engine set-up. It's not much of a problem if one knows what he's doing with building. Many models no longer come with chins or pipe tunnels which makes fitting the IC a little more difficult but again, if you know what you are doing it's no biggie. I'm setting up a Griffin from F3AU this way, designed for E-power but converted to 2 stroke gas with a full tuned pipe. The conversion is very similar to the conversion I made for the Vanquish electric, 3-4 years ago here in RCU. About the only differentiator is building a removable chin cowl and setting up the canopy in a more conventional way to provide better strength up front.
What I've done successfully is add 3/32" soft balsa sides, from the FW to the gear, glued with gorilla. The fuse is properly reinforced with carbon at key locations such as gear mounts and FW bulkhead. I also add a fuse former just aft of the canopy. This is usually either 1/4" blue fan-fold foam or 3/32" balsa. Weight and resiliency are about the same. The balsa is slightly stiffer. The pipe floor is 1/8" foam and is not load bearing since the pipe is mounted to the fuse shell and not the floor.
All this stuff plus the FW adds maybe 3 1/2 ounces. The Gas engine/pipe/header/heavy apc prop and associated plumbing is at least 12 ounces lighter than a typical electric with batteries. Planes have typically run 10# 4 to 10# 8 RTF w/o gas in the tank.
What I've done successfully is add 3/32" soft balsa sides, from the FW to the gear, glued with gorilla. The fuse is properly reinforced with carbon at key locations such as gear mounts and FW bulkhead. I also add a fuse former just aft of the canopy. This is usually either 1/4" blue fan-fold foam or 3/32" balsa. Weight and resiliency are about the same. The balsa is slightly stiffer. The pipe floor is 1/8" foam and is not load bearing since the pipe is mounted to the fuse shell and not the floor.
All this stuff plus the FW adds maybe 3 1/2 ounces. The Gas engine/pipe/header/heavy apc prop and associated plumbing is at least 12 ounces lighter than a typical electric with batteries. Planes have typically run 10# 4 to 10# 8 RTF w/o gas in the tank.
08-11-2015, 01:21 PM
#96
Hey Mike, I'm staying electric! I have my big planes for the trill of things. I will get with you here soon about an "Invitation," motors, new charges and some better batteries to boot. I will try Pletty this time, more ESC choices. The only thing I would like to change on the standard scheme is changing the white to yellow and that's it (I don't see white well).PM me if you can and let me know what additional's that would incur? Thank's,Bill Holsten
Hey Bill great to hear you'll be able to get back in the game. Hey if you have 2 YS engines working that would be a compelling reason. Airframes though are made so lightly that the shake and bake of a YS or Gas is problematic and detrimental to it's lifespan. Tim great talking with you too. We're here when you need us. Thanks, Mike
08-11-2015, 01:44 PM
#97
time907356,
Getting a 2M plane under the 11Lb mark isn't difficult these days. MY Epic was 10.45 lbs with batteries and I did extras to it. Don't be afraid to go that route, plenty of great air frame's out there these days.
Bill
Getting a 2M plane under the 11Lb mark isn't difficult these days. MY Epic was 10.45 lbs with batteries and I did extras to it. Don't be afraid to go that route, plenty of great air frame's out there these days.
Bill
So being a nitro guy, wanting to be a gas guy, you've now talked me into electric. I can't see dumping that amount of coin into an airframe and shaking it apart with an ICE. The 1.75M I'm flying now has that issue with a 120 2s; keeping bolt in and glass from cracking (further).
I still heavily doubt the power/weight ratio favors electric, but that's clearly not the only equation to figure out. Getting a 2M under 11lb. means we have to shed somewhere. Electric is much easier on what remains.
I still heavily doubt the power/weight ratio favors electric, but that's clearly not the only equation to figure out. Getting a 2M under 11lb. means we have to shed somewhere. Electric is much easier on what remains.
08-11-2015, 01:52 PM
#98
I agree with that Matt,
However, you have- to -have the knowledge to do that. The air frame is not the primary issue, it's the wings and stabs that catch the brunt of the shake and bake, as you know from a YS. Gas or a good 2 stroke like an OS-160 on a pipe, which I ran for several years works great too. I haven't run a gas motor in one yet, but I follow you're threads. Keep doing what your doing, because it's great for the sport.
Bill
However, you have- to -have the knowledge to do that. The air frame is not the primary issue, it's the wings and stabs that catch the brunt of the shake and bake, as you know from a YS. Gas or a good 2 stroke like an OS-160 on a pipe, which I ran for several years works great too. I haven't run a gas motor in one yet, but I follow you're threads. Keep doing what your doing, because it's great for the sport.
Bill
Nearly all Pattern airframes available today are for electric set-ups. All of these are plenty strong for IC but will require some mods to install the engine set-up. It's not much of a problem if one knows what he's doing with building. Many models no longer come with chins or pipe tunnels which makes fitting the IC a little more difficult but again, if you know what you are doing it's no biggie. I'm setting up a Griffin from F3AU this way, designed for E-power but converted to 2 stroke gas with a full tuned pipe. The conversion is very similar to the conversion I made for the Vanquish electric, 3-4 years ago here in RCU. About the only differentiator is building a removable chin cowl and setting up the canopy in a more conventional way to provide better strength up front.
What I've done successfully is add 3/32" soft balsa sides, from the FW to the gear, glued with gorilla. The fuse is properly reinforced with carbon at key locations such as gear mounts and FW bulkhead. I also add a fuse former just aft of the canopy. This is usually either 1/4" blue fan-fold foam or 3/32" balsa. Weight and resiliency are about the same. The balsa is slightly stiffer. The pipe floor is 1/8" foam and is not load bearing since the pipe is mounted to the fuse shell and not the floor.
All this stuff plus the FW adds maybe 3 1/2 ounces. The Gas engine/pipe/header/heavy apc prop and associated plumbing is at least 12 ounces lighter than a typical electric with batteries. Planes have typically run 10# 4 to 10# 8 RTF w/o gas in the tank.
What I've done successfully is add 3/32" soft balsa sides, from the FW to the gear, glued with gorilla. The fuse is properly reinforced with carbon at key locations such as gear mounts and FW bulkhead. I also add a fuse former just aft of the canopy. This is usually either 1/4" blue fan-fold foam or 3/32" balsa. Weight and resiliency are about the same. The balsa is slightly stiffer. The pipe floor is 1/8" foam and is not load bearing since the pipe is mounted to the fuse shell and not the floor.
All this stuff plus the FW adds maybe 3 1/2 ounces. The Gas engine/pipe/header/heavy apc prop and associated plumbing is at least 12 ounces lighter than a typical electric with batteries. Planes have typically run 10# 4 to 10# 8 RTF w/o gas in the tank.
09-04-2015, 03:46 AM
#99
Been a while...Anyone have new information on the Invitation? Just a few short contest weeks left this year!
I'm still a couple of months away from ordering one (Nov.?) but it's still squarely in my radar. I took a breif daliance with a Splendor, but need to focus on flying just one plane, and until I finish building my EU1-A. Once those endeavors are behind, the Invitation is next, again, in E-power.
I'm still a couple of months away from ordering one (Nov.?) but it's still squarely in my radar. I took a breif daliance with a Splendor, but need to focus on flying just one plane, and until I finish building my EU1-A. Once those endeavors are behind, the Invitation is next, again, in E-power.
09-10-2015, 04:34 PM
#100
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Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Smithfield, VA
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I would love to see an invitation done with gas.
I think this would open pattern up to alot of people who do not want to get setup with electric.
Exactly what mods are required?
Need a plane like the invitation that comes with the firewall, pipe tunnel, iso mount and strengthening mods already done. Just ready to bolt in the motor, pipe, servo and go fly.
Tony
I think this would open pattern up to alot of people who do not want to get setup with electric.
Exactly what mods are required?
Need a plane like the invitation that comes with the firewall, pipe tunnel, iso mount and strengthening mods already done. Just ready to bolt in the motor, pipe, servo and go fly.
Tony