RC Pattern Flying Discuss all topics pertaining to RC Pattern Flying in this forum.

BJ CRAFT new plane Invitation...

Reply

Old 02-09-2015, 02:26 AM
  #1  
Holystone
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: South Korea
Posts: 29
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default BJ CRAFT new plane Invitation...

I got a new F3A pattern model “Invitation” from BJ CRAFT last Friday.
Finally, I opened the box today.
Some of you maybe heard about the BJ Craft’s G2 concept (Generation 2)
They said, G2 is the second generation short for and not the BJ’s generation, but it will be
The 2[SUP]nd[/SUP] generation for whole F3A world.

There are two different versions “Essence” and “Invitation”.

The Essence is Electric version only, but The Invitation is available with Electric and Glow power. (You can have more detailed information about “Essence” follow the link below)

BJ Craft G2 Essence

My Invitation comes with the


- Wooden Engine & Electric motor mount kits.
- Conventional tapered wing and stabilizer (not full moving)
- Model fuel resistant clear coating on the fuselage.
- Balsa with film covering wings.
- Landing gear, wheels, wheel pants.
- Wing incidence JIG, and incidence adjuster X 2.
- Rib formed Canalizer.


Basically, Invitation is designed for GAS power, so it has more reinforcement with the bulkheads, and, engine room area.

My first impression is improved product quality.
I did some BJ’s planes before, comparing with them, this one a lot better, used the better painting material with good artwork. The covering coat job is also processed cleverly so it won’t peel off easily. At Sunday, many of my R/C friends stop by my house to see it.
Everybody agree with that.

And, the second impression is absolutely the huge side area of the fuselage. Not just like big.
It’s really super big. It looks like almost same area of the both wing. Or even larger..
According to BJ, Park, the wider side area helps a lot easier the slow roll and knife edge at the lower air speed. I really look forward to have the slow performance with it.

I’m considering DLE 35RA as the power source for my Invitation.

As you know, the Elect one, very troublesome with battery charging, especially for a lazy guy just like me. And shorten run time comparing with IC.

The YS-4C, OK with the powerful torque, but, frankly, it’s not that economical, when it comes to annual fuel cost, paid more than 1,200USD for the fuel cost for a year.)

So, this time I decide go with the Gasoline one,
Now a day, DLE 35RA is popularly used in the F3A full size area, already many F3A flyers are flying with it.

But, only the concerning is.. How I match this beautiful high performance Invitation with
my DLE35RA well with fitting on to typical F3A FRP fuselage.

The wooden mount with coming together is for glow engine only;
I have to make my own anti-Vibration mount system.

It will be very attractive if fly with DLE35RA

I will share with you guys about the plane from now on.
I really look forward to making and flying it.


Sungho
Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version

Name:	20150209_112231_resized.jpg
Views:	1806
Size:	103.3 KB
ID:	2071635   Click image for larger version

Name:	20150209_112241_resized.jpg
Views:	1618
Size:	130.6 KB
ID:	2071636   Click image for larger version

Name:	20150209_112216_resized.jpg
Views:	3060
Size:	140.8 KB
ID:	2071637   Click image for larger version

Name:	20150209_112145_resized.jpg
Views:	1739
Size:	152.0 KB
ID:	2071638   Click image for larger version

Name:	20150209_112103_resized.jpg
Views:	2051
Size:	144.0 KB
ID:	2071639   Click image for larger version

Name:	20150209_120028_resized.jpg
Views:	1606
Size:	95.6 KB
ID:	2071640   Click image for larger version

Name:	20150209_115952_resized.jpg
Views:	1846
Size:	98.9 KB
ID:	2071641   Click image for larger version

Name:	20150209_115820_resized.jpg
Views:	1640
Size:	76.7 KB
ID:	2071642  

Click image for larger version

Name:	20150209_112446_resized.jpg
Views:	1673
Size:	110.5 KB
ID:	2071643   Click image for larger version

Name:	20150209_112315_resized.jpg
Views:	1698
Size:	113.9 KB
ID:	2071644  

Last edited by Holystone; 02-09-2015 at 07:24 AM.
Holystone is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2015, 05:57 AM
  #2  
rm
My Feedback: (27)
 
rm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: ohio
Posts: 538
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default

Look forward to seeing what you come up with.
rm is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 02-10-2015, 07:31 AM
  #3  
Holystone
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: South Korea
Posts: 29
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default

Thanks, I.'m still considering how to set up the floating mount for DLE35RA. it's not the beam mount type. so have to fix the front bearing case,
but the ignition magnet sensor is in the way. I have to modify it.
Holystone is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 02-10-2015, 09:52 AM
  #4  
MTK
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Whippany, NJ
Posts: 5,386
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default

I have run the DLE35 rear exhaust on both pipe and canister. Its positives are very very easy starting engine; it's a rear exhaust so it fits easily in a pattern plane; good idle. Negatives: it turns smaller props (eg. 19x10 XOAR laminated). The reed cage needed some work on my engine to get it working properly.

You should definitely run a Hyde style soft mount. Thenose ring will require a clearance notch to fit around the Hall sensor. It's not a problem; I've been doing exactly that for 5 years.

If you have not purchased the 35RA yet, consider the OS GT33. It is a more powerful engine turning larger props on pipe. Plus you can use APC props which are much better than the wood available today. Look at my sticky on the top of the Patern Forum page for details.

Good luck any way you choose
MTK is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2015, 10:12 AM
  #5  
Holystone
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: South Korea
Posts: 29
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default

Thanks Matt

I really appreciate your reply.
Yes, I trust your tip that GT33 is more powerful than 35RA.
So, today, even though I already have a 35RA but, I order the GT33 additionally, luckily, one of my local dear has one last stock. I get it just before.

I fully agree with you, GT33 has more advantage against 35RA. Most attractive thing is…
Run with the APC prop. They are already good reason to buy GT33 without any hesitation.

I’m eagle to build up my Invitation with GT33 very soon. Please give me tips once I set up my GT33 on the plane.

Sungho

mystic48@naver.com
Holystone is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2015, 10:05 PM
  #6  
Holystone
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: South Korea
Posts: 29
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default

Matt

I got a brand new GT33 last week. Looks great! The OS Engine, No doubt about it.
While I search for more information about GT33, I got good information from BJ Craft.
I talked BJ Park on the phone, He said, last Oct. New Gasoline glow plug for GT33 from OS Engine has been launched.

Actually, GT33 can run with this Gasoline glow plug without spark ignition devices. But, it runs pretty good.
Do you have any idea with this glow plug? Have you already used it before?
If you did it already, please share with me.

BJ quote me that OS engineer Mr. Miura san told him, the new GAS glow plug for GT33 has no output and idling difference with spark ignition one.

It's good news to me like F3A pattern flyer, I can lose the weight of ignition devices around 150g~180g at least. As you know, the lighter the better performance.

I will try to fit this new GAS glow plug on my GT33, if it works with my Invitation, it couldn't be better.

In this case, I assume like, In F3A, GT33 is much more benefit comparing with 35RA as you advise me. So in result, GT33 is…

1. Basically more power .
2. Run without spark ignition plug (lighter and no bad spark noise to Radio )
3. Putting APC prop. (more efficient trust)
4. Hattory silencer

Now I estimate the total weight of my Invitation with the above is around 4,600g~4,700g around.
Not that bad I guess. I will compare both the glow and spark ignition and normal muffler and Hattory silencer. will share the estimation here.

Now, I have to order the glow plug first…. I’m really excited about it.

Sungho

Last edited by Holystone; 02-16-2015 at 11:00 PM.
Holystone is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2015, 10:27 AM
  #7  
MTK
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Whippany, NJ
Posts: 5,386
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default

Sungho,

Please make certain that you use a pipe on the GT33. The ES Composites 35G carbon pipe is highly recommended. It's the lightest pipe (around 100 grams) available. You will also need a return to center header from Hatori, # 2301 (also used on other 30cc engines).

I have not used the new OS glow plug for gasoline. I have seen the GT15 engine run on the new glow plug and it seemed to run and idle well, with minimal transition issues. There are several key unknowns with the new glow plug, key amongthem how long it will last, how it transitions longer term, etc.

The ignition module and spark plug is well known and well wrung out. I am still using the original CM6 plug on my number 1 GT33 after some 130 hours of operation. The extra 4 ounces for the module and plug is not a problem on the current crop of models. They are light enough. The other thing that is a known with ignition, the engine can be tuned perfectly to sip gasoline. I fly with a 330 cc tank for 20 minutes (pisses off the electric guys so I tend to tone that down occasionally). A 200 cc tank will easily fly a single schedule

Sure the GT33 is a bit more powerful than the DLE35RA but the 35RA has plenty of power for an 11 pound airplane. It doesn't turn as large a prop though. The GT33 easily turns an apc 20.5x10 at just over 7000 rpm. The best prop to date that I've used is a wood/carbon hybrid (only 90 grams), sized 20.25 x 12, of my own design. The engine has about 10% longer stroke than the other 30cc class engines available today. That's what gives it it's edge, particularly at the extended vertical maneuvers we fly in F3A.

Good luck
MTK is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2015, 10:14 AM
  #8  
rm
My Feedback: (27)
 
rm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: ohio
Posts: 538
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default

I think it would be worth trying the gas glow plug, can always go back to the ignition. I also think its a good idea to try and keep these planes as light as possible. We spend $100's to save an ounce some times, $13 seems worth a try.

The 33 with the hatori canister turns the 20.5x10 apc at 68-6900. Gives pretty good down line braking also which surprised me. Canister weights a couple ounces more then the pipe. Teflon couplers and steel clamps are heavy also. Vertical is pretty good, would get a little slow in long upline maneuvers pushing, pulling the radius at the top, especially on hotter days. I'm flying the masters maneuvers, fai it would be a bit tougher. Cooler days wasn't much of a problem.

My wood/foam pentathlon, weighted in at 4900g. I've got it down to 4840 now, with the plug would be in the 4730g range. Could make a difference.

It's really fun flying 2 sequences and shooting 10-15 landings. Hard to believe how long 2.5 gallons will last. I'm gonna try some different things this summer, the pipe, 3 blade, added a longer throttle arm to see if I can get better throttle response. Looking forward to it.

Last edited by rm; 02-18-2015 at 10:16 AM.
rm is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2015, 10:14 AM
  #9  
rm
My Feedback: (27)
 
rm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: ohio
Posts: 538
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default

double post
rm is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 02-19-2015, 02:17 AM
  #10  
Holystone
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: South Korea
Posts: 29
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default

Matt

That's good point. the durability of the glow plug. how long it will last..
Seeing is believing. Let's check the life time . How long it will last. I will put the glow plug . and
I can monitor the durability. thanks for pointing out the durability issue which I never ever concerned it seriously before.

Sungho

Last edited by Holystone; 02-19-2015 at 06:35 AM.
Holystone is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 02-19-2015, 02:33 AM
  #11  
Holystone
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: South Korea
Posts: 29
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default

Yes, making lighter plane is always never ending story for the F3A flyers, and we know how it's different with the 100 g.
Putting glow plug job's also basically from this concerning. I look forward to hearing from you the difference of 3 blades. and pipes.
and what's the meaning of longer throttle arm? what makes it different?

Sungho
Holystone is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 02-19-2015, 09:13 AM
  #12  
svrcp
Senior Member
My Feedback: (1)
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Bridgewater, VA
Posts: 197
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default

Is the t-can mounted on the canopy like the Episole or behind on the fuse?
svrcp is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 02-19-2015, 09:48 AM
  #13  
rcpattern
My Feedback: (45)
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Great Mills, MD
Posts: 2,861
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default

JR,

It's behind the canopy. On the other thread Steve Hannah started you can see it more clearly.

Arch
rcpattern is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 02-19-2015, 07:45 PM
  #14  
MTK
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Whippany, NJ
Posts: 5,386
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default

Originally Posted by MTK View Post
Sungho,

Please make certain that you use a pipe on the GT33. The ES Composites 35G carbon pipe is highly recommended. It's the lightest pipe (around 100 grams) available. You will also need a return to center header from Hatori, # 2301 (also used on other 30cc engines).

I have not used the new OS glow plug for gasoline. I have seen the GT15 engine run on the new glow plug and it seemed to run and idle well, with minimal transition issues. There are several key unknowns with the new glow plug, key amongthem how long it will last, how it transitions longer term, etc.

The ignition module and spark plug is well known and well wrung out. I am still using the original CM6 plug on my number 1 GT33 after some 130 hours of operation. The extra 4 ounces for the module and plug is not a problem on the current crop of models. They are light enough. The other thing that is a known with ignition, the engine can be tuned perfectly to sip gasoline. I fly with a 330 cc tank for 20 minutes (pisses off the electric guys so I tend to tone that down occasionally). A 200 cc tank will easily fly a single schedule

Sure the GT33 is a bit more powerful than the DLE35RA but the 35RA has plenty of power for an 11 pound airplane. It doesn't turn as large a prop though. The GT33 easily turns an apc 20.5x10 at just over 7000 rpm. The best prop to date that I've used is a wood/carbon hybrid (only 90 grams), sized 20.25 x 12, of my own design. The engine has about 10% longer stroke than the other 30cc class engines available today. That's what gives it it's edge, particularly at the extended vertical maneuvers we fly in F3A.

Good luck
The larger props work well on the 33 in terms of downline brakes. I wondered if Hatori made a can for this engine and you confirmed it. Based on your performance numbers it seems that it is a tuned canister. Curious, which gasoline type are you using?

I tried several ESC canisters on the DLE35RA and got no real boost in output. These were prototype units that Ed Skorepa just sent me to play with. He has no plans to commercialize anything at this time.

I'm not sure how the engine compares to the YS185 on 20% nitro. Adrian and Bryan are reporting good numbers on the 20.5x10 apc (on par with the GT33) except the YS probably performs a little better in the middle of the curve.

BTW guys, anyone wanting to try gasoline pattern with the stock ignition module, don't forget Ed Alt's IBEC. This well filtered gizmo practically eliminates noise getting back to the RX. Every one of my set ups has used the IBEC from its inception 5 years ago. Look at the Tech Aero website for the many positives the IBEC results in.
MTK is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 02-19-2015, 11:33 PM
  #15  
papaone
 
papaone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Salon, FRANCE
Posts: 1,168
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default

Hello Sungho

"GT33 can run with this Gasoline glow plug without spark ignition"

Have you a link about this new engine ?
Is it gazoline or methanol ? How much oil is necessary ?
Claude
papaone is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2015, 04:29 AM
  #16  
rm
My Feedback: (27)
 
rm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: ohio
Posts: 538
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default

I don't know if this canister was specifically designed for this motor, they label it for 26-33cc 360mm x 47mm, about 6 oz. Comes with a 4" extension that can be resized to whatever works for you, so I doubt its a true tuned system, but it does work well. I ran a "recreation blend" fuel one of the local stations supplied, think it was 90 octane.

You can find info here: http://www.hatori-models.co.jp/HP3/air-e.html

Sadly that motor lost the c ring clip off the piston retaining pin and seized the motor. What a bear to get that apart as it got lodged between the piston and liner. Had approx. 250 flights on it.

I've only got a couple gallons on my new motor, and was running a 19.5 x 11.5 last I flew it, which was last fall. It was turning 71-7200.


Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_1478_2265x741.jpg
Views:	1250
Size:	428.5 KB
ID:	2074894  
rm is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2015, 04:36 AM
  #17  
rm
My Feedback: (27)
 
rm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: ohio
Posts: 538
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default

Papaone,

this plug was designed for the OS GGT15.
OS recommends regular gas and a high quality 2 stroke oil at its regular ratio.
We're hoping it can be used in the GT33 which has been out a few years.

Last edited by rm; 02-20-2015 at 04:58 AM.
rm is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2015, 04:58 AM
  #18  
papaone
 
papaone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Salon, FRANCE
Posts: 1,168
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default

Hello

But he said without spark ignition. Or GT 15 has this system.
Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version

Name:	0471423_big.jpg
Views:	1147
Size:	217.9 KB
ID:	2074898  
papaone is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2015, 05:35 AM
  #19  
Jetdesign
Senior Member
My Feedback: (8)
 
Jetdesign's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Mason, OH
Posts: 7,054
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default

Congratulations, Sungho! It is a beautiful looking airplane and I really like the paint scheme. I'm excited to see how the OS works out for you.
Jetdesign is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2015, 06:07 AM
  #20  
rm
My Feedback: (27)
 
rm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: ohio
Posts: 538
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default

http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...&I=LXEJRK&P=SM
rm is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2015, 06:57 AM
  #21  
drac1
My Feedback: (4)
 
drac1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Romaine, Tasmania, AUSTRALIA
Posts: 1,521
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default

Originally Posted by rm View Post
I don't know if this canister was specifically designed for this motor, they label it for 26-33cc 360mm x 47mm, about 6 oz. Comes with a 4" extension that can be resized to whatever works for you, so I doubt its a true tuned system, but it does work well. I ran a "recreation blend" fuel one of the local stations supplied, think it was 90 octane.

You can find info here: http://www.hatori-models.co.jp/HP3/air-e.html

Sadly that motor lost the c ring clip off the piston retaining pin and seized the motor. What a bear to get that apart as it got lodged between the piston and liner. Had approx. 250 flights on it.

I've only got a couple gallons on my new motor, and was running a 19.5 x 11.5 last I flew it, which was last fall. It was turning 71-7200.


That's the muffler I bought for my GT33 and I don't think it was designed for the OS in particular, but I decided to give it a go.

Have you tried the 20.5 X 10? That's the prop I'm gong to try. I'm thinking it should give around the same RPM as the 19.5 X 11.5?

I'm getting that RPM with a 20.5 X 10 on my 185cdi, so if the 33 can get close to it using that muffler, it should be OK.
drac1 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2015, 07:44 AM
  #22  
papaone
 
papaone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Salon, FRANCE
Posts: 1,168
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default

Thank RM

I mixed OS and OS GT15 GGT 15
papaone is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2015, 01:25 PM
  #23  
rm
My Feedback: (27)
 
rm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: ohio
Posts: 538
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default

I was getting around 68-6900 with the 20.5x10 and the hatori.
rm is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2015, 03:49 AM
  #24  
drac1
My Feedback: (4)
 
drac1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Romaine, Tasmania, AUSTRALIA
Posts: 1,521
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default

Originally Posted by rm View Post
I was getting around 68-6900 with the 20.5x10 and the hatori.

Thanks. Worth a shot.
drac1 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2015, 08:09 PM
  #25  
Holystone
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: South Korea
Posts: 29
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default

Claude

Hi~
Sorry I got you misunderstanding.
The OS GT-33 is not the glow engine with fuel of Methanol.
it's typical Gasoline Engine used the fuel of Petrol. but the ignition system can be replaced with glow plug.

The Gasoline is ignited by glow plug not the spark ignition plug. this new glow plug for Gasoline GT33 has been launched from OCt. 2015.

Sungho
Holystone is offline  
Reply With Quote

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us Archive Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service