flightpack

Hi all, new to the group here, but have been away from flying (pattern). I am again bit by the "bug", and have a few questions...

Radios... I've been a JR flyer since the 80's, in fact used to work at Circus Hobbies. I've probably replaced an antennae or rebuilt a servo or two, way long ago when help was needed in the radio department, and or shipped a Webra, or kit or something!

I am looking at the JR XG11 -or- the Spektrum DX9. Possibly the Futaba 14. Some might know how "changing" brands is, and I don't want to jump back into the hobby with a radio that does not deliver. How would you view these radios so I can base my decision from a pattern flyers point of view?

I also am wondering what battery pack is needed for the plane if I'm running a glow engine? And could I run non-digital servos? I do plan on newer servos for newer builds, but have a slew of new analog servos from years ago...

I am completely amazed with the electric pattern motors, and I quit flying about the time it was only a mere rumor, around 2002.

Plane selection has gotten me too. I still have my E=MC2 from back then, I haven't flown in so long and I don't really trust a "conversion" module and transmitter. I would like to start fresh once again. I have a few designs to build on my mind. Planning on picking up intermediate, or just going into advanced class. Not sure, but I don't want to shoot myself in the foot! Looking forward to competing again.

All help would be much appreciated, and to ones that I remember or kinda know from D7.... Hello, and how are you all doing?

Thanks everyone,

Sean

jetmech43

My Feedback: (9)

Being a Futaba man im partial to them but they are all good so its a matter of personal choice. You could use non digital as long as they center well and have plenty of torque, not to many 2 stroke glow motors that are competitive, some guys use that big OS motor with success, the YS 160 to 180 size seems to be the engine of choice for pattern, electric for me is the way to go I switched about 4 years ago and never looked back, but then again its a matter of choice, hang out here in the forums thee will be plenty of people offering their advice. As far as batter pack I use a 900 MA Lipo pack 2s with a BEC regulator, again just my choice.

flightpack

Thanks jetmech!

I went ahead and ordered a JR XG14. I know it won't be compatible with rx's other than JR's, but I've been confident with their stuff for a long time.

I'm going to give my EMC2 a thorough lookover, (YS 140L) and see if I can remember how to do this flying bit..... I'll look at other planes and powerplants after I get back into it some more. I need batteries, chargers, and all the smaller stuff for now.... at least I can go out an wiggle the sticks.

MTK

Glow engines, particularly the YS 4 strokes such as 175 or 185 have terrific field manners. But if you don't know how to tune one, best to stay with electric. Their fuel and maintenance cost tend to be high

The newish gasoline 2 stroke from OS, the GT33, is a tremendous powerplant for 2 meter pattern particularly when piped. That's what I use. But it takes tuning to achieve simple and reliable results. This is by far the cheapest way to fly the same pattern (inclusive of initial cost, season feeding cost and maintenance cost).

But again, if tuning is not your thing, best to stay with electric. Sure it is much more expensive overall, especially considering the learning curve and the inevitable blown components, but this should be balanced against ease of use. Anymore, electric is plug and play.

drac1

My Feedback: (4)

The 185cdi is the best YS engine yet and I don't agree that they are expensive to run and maintain. I mix my own fuel, 30% nitro and 10% Coolpower MV and it costs $1.65 AUD (approx. $1.28 USD), per flight.

I have 400 flights on one of mine and I have replaced bearings once and 1 spark plug. It doesn't get much cheaper than that. Compare that to the cost of batteries, chargers and in some cases generators and IC is very cost effective.

But I do agree, you need to know what you are doing.

flightpack

I am going to fly my old trusty 1.40L for now, and when it is time to get another ship or two ready later on, I will decide then. I haven't really looked for fuel yet, and as one LHS told me, it's like pulling teeth to get it in stock.

I know the two fields here, North Las Vegas field, has fuel engine noise restrictions, and Bennett Field is getting similar complaints from the Wetlands Park patrons. Because of this, I'm thinking I will probably go electric later on, just to be able to keep flying without noise -or- fuel. Growing up with a screaming .60 or the pleasant growl of a 4 stroke is going to be hard to give up.... not to mention the smell of glow fuel!

drac1

My Feedback: (4)

The IC noise issue makes me laugh.

Some F3A electrics are noisier than glow.

flightpack

I did not know that... I've been away too long.

drac1

My Feedback: (4)

It's interesting when you start looking into IC versus electric noise. Most lump F3A IC planes in the same category as the gassers which are noisy.

But getting back to radios, I've been using JR for 19 years without one failure.

flightpack

I've used JR since 1981 (minus the years away). Just got my new JR XG14. Decent price, with 2 free receivers with their promo, that should get me back in the air effectively. Updating the plane with digital servos also. I'll use the analog servos I'm pulling out on a fun flier or something.

drac1

My Feedback: (4)

I've had my 12X for quite a few years. It's a great radio and have just got a 28X.
Never used the 14, but from what I've heard it's a very good radio and price.

flightpack

That 28x is a MONSTER! Very nice!

I wish, just once that any radio manufacturer would jam pack supreme features into a radio custom tailored to certain flying disciplines, without going over the
top with channels, and tons of other things that would be basically unused, and charge outrageous prices for it.

For instance 7 channels, metal chassis, ball bearing metal gimbals, with the high end resolution like that 28x, switches, mixes, curves etc., etc, for the price
if you added it up ala carte on a restaurant menu. For pattern... 28 channels?? Give me a high end 7 channel for 800 bucks, custom ordered to do exactly what I need it to do, and not helis, gliders, paper airplanes, etc. I've been out of the technological loop for a while, and not sure, but It seems like this kind of feature was only on the Kraft signature series radio long ago! And then time evolves, and radio companies are only in business to sell more radios....

Sorry for the rant, but this has bugged me since at least 1982 when I purchased my first JR Century 7.

drac1

My Feedback: (4)

Everyone might not use all the features, but depending on what type of flying individuals do, they will use different ones and the 28X had something for everyone. If JR made a speccy radio for each discipline, they would sell less of each and therefore the price would be more expensive anyway. And if you flew more than one discipline you would need multiple radios which would be just as expensive if not more so. One radio to cover evening is smart.

It's easy. Don't buy it. We all have a choice.

drac1

My Feedback: (4)

Double.

flightpack

Yeah, I know.
I remember when "end point adjustment" was the ultimate in radio control!

It was decisions like this that made it somewhat confusing on which radio to get, what price, etc. So many options, user configurations etc, and always leaves you thinking "did I buy the right one?" Oh well, its all subjective. I am happy with what I got, and will be happier when I take to the skies once again.

I stuck with JR, I know 'em, and have always trusted them.

MTK

Not to confuse the OP, Let's make the distinction between gas engines for IMAC and gas engines I use in Pattern. Huge difference in the noise generated. My set-ups are on par to some YS and better than most. It's all in the set-up of the 33cc gas engine.

As far as cost per flight (let's assume an 8 minute flight since that's the electric standard), the YS's will run you about 1$ per 8 minutes (assumes 20% nitro glow). Electrics will run you about 2$ for 8 minutes for good batteries and about 3$ per flight for top of the heap batteries. Gasoline will run you about 10 cents per 8 minutes. Excludes any maintenance for motors/engines.

The Saturn will operate just fine on the YS140 which is less expensive to run than the larger YS's.

The battery comparison considers good and best batteries only which will last about 80 flights on average for the good to about 120 flights for the best. Certainly there are cheaper batteries but their longevity and safety is questionable. BUT for most guys running E-power, cost is not an issue and it isn't unusual for many to have a dozen sets of batteris ready for service.

To me, keeping tabs on all of these takes the fun out of it. I'd much rather take my plane to the field, gas it up, fly the heck out of it (when I am able to) and take it home. The gas engines have proven nearly maintenance free; no plug changes, no rust in the bearings, squeeky clean inside after a 100 hours of operation.

big_G

Matt, you are going to make me choose a gas GT33 for my next 2 meter plane...I like the ease of electric on my current 2 meter plane, but when practicing I would rather stay in the air for 2 or 3 sequences. Now to find a suitable gently used 2 meter plane.

MTK

If you set-up the 33 as I have outlined in the sticky, you will have terrific success. BTW, the cost per flight is for Aviation Gasoline not regular autogas. Avgas is about 3$ a gallon at current prices plus the oil which will run about 1.50$ per gallon for 50:1 mix. The gallon will fill the tank (11 oz tank) 12 times and each flight will run 20 minutes (3 Mast schedules plus 3 maneuvers). Nothing even comes close.

I've retired my Temptress last year but she's a perfectly good flier and is very light. She has some cosmetic surface dings and scratches but she's of sound body. She's set-up already for the 33. I am also thinking of retiring my Aesthesis design of about 5 years ago. A little larger model and heavier than Temptress but also a terrifc flier and also set-up for the 33. If interested, send me an email directly.

I need the room. I'm in process of outlining a Big Chaos at present. 88" span, 86" length, 1250 squares, retracts, all balsa and ply, for a piped 40cc twin cylinder, should be 13 pounds all up.

drac1

My Feedback: (4)

Yes Matt, I meant IMAC type planes when I mentioned gassers and included pattern gas planes in with pattern IC. Thanks for the clarification.
The YS cdi engines use less fuel than the glow versions. My 185.cdi uses around half as much as the 140L.

Cost doesn't bother me, it is what it is. The electric guys started the fuel cost thing using it as a justification for going electric.
My 185cdi set up is cheaper than the top end electrics and much cheaper than the contras.

airraptor

My Feedback: (66)

has the OS 33 ever one a contest? YS 185's have many wins under their belt.

drac1

My Feedback: (4)

YS POWWEERRR.

Sorry, I couldn't help myself

MTK

SO??

jetmech43

My Feedback: (9)

I would say not many because most guys choose not to use it, im sure the OS 33 in capable hands could certainly finds its way in the winners circle

apereira

My 185's cost $0.27 a minute of fuel because I run them rich, same with the 175 and with Cool Power 30% Nitro.

Flightpack,

The thing is the F3A airplanes a limited in noise, usually they run between 94 and 96 dB, this is something the standard IMAC muffler is way far off, that's one of the reasons the IMAC guys are using canisters (pipe like mufflers), they are quieter and have more power. You should not have any problems with noise restrictions most likely.

When coming back to pattern, keep it simple, just use what you want and can get, once you get comfortable then move to other options, there are to many, some sound cheap but are nightmares or impractical, so it is better just to fly, have fun then figure some details later.

Most of today radios will work fine, I also remember when I first had a radio that said "Expo" on it......... now I don't think I could snap without Flight Conditions Hysteresis, hehehe.

Good luck.

drac1

My Feedback: (4)

I run mine on the rich side as well. That's the way to look after the engine.

Alot of guys try to set them too lean, which is the main reason why most have trouble. YS's will run quite happily on the rich side.

Lean = Bad.