Pattern Biplane
11-06-2017, 08:27 PM
#176
Not too hard to tell the weight. Measure a few square inches and throw it on a gram scale and do the math. Give some thought to a rotisserie to paint on, a little more work but it lets you paint the entire fuselage with no contact.
11-06-2017, 08:38 PM
#177
Yep, that's why I simply asked him to snip some off the roll and bring it to work. I have the painting stand sorted out, I just have to buy the stuff. I will be adding a 1" thick disk to the nose ring that is drilled 1.5" for PVC pipe. That will drop into a Christmas tree stand type arrangement. Of course after the primer application, it will have to be left alone for 3 days while the primer dries/shrinks. Sanding too soon just ends up showing the glass weave through the paint and then scratches start showing through as well.
11-07-2017, 08:32 PM
#178
It seems like having a solid color on anything just transforms the whole project into something real..... or creates more work 'cause now you can see all your mistakes! haha
Ken
11-07-2017, 08:46 PM
#179
I'm certain that first coat of primer will bring some things out that I can't see right now. That's one of the great things about using Klass Kote. Being an epoxy base means that the flaws that need filling can be done with a mix of epoxy, micro balloons right on top of the primer. For this type of work I won't use any of the lacquer or polyester based spot putty. They tend to either soften when overcoated or shrink and become visible under the topcoat. I think I have enough time to get the plug ready. The Idea is to take Tuesday and Wednesday prior to Thanksgiving off to get the plug into a parting flange and do one side of the mold that weekend. The other side of the mold the following week. I'm hopeful I will be able to mold up a fuselage during my 2 week Christmas vacation.
11-11-2017, 04:37 PM
#180
New update and a new name........
The fuse and wheel pant plug is ready for primer which will happen tomorrow. I have the fuse in the living room on the stand I fabricated. I tried to convince my wife that I could leave it there and we would not need to buy a Christmas tree this year. I suppose it won't be too difficult to guess her reply.
Back to the name thing, I really want something that worked with the airplane and fit the philosophy behind the design. The airplane is a bit different from other F3A biplanes I have seen. I have seen either the top wing placed directly through the canopy or on front. I have not seen any other airplane that has the canopy halfway onto the wing. Not to mention the use of plug in wings at all. While surfing through Net Flix the other night looking for a movie to watch with the wife, it hit me square in the face. " Divergent ". It not only fits the different approach to the outline but also IMO is perfect for a biplane. Now the next decision.......do I mold the name into the side of the fuselage? I haven't seen it done before, wouldmit be worth doing?
The fuse and wheel pant plug is ready for primer which will happen tomorrow. I have the fuse in the living room on the stand I fabricated. I tried to convince my wife that I could leave it there and we would not need to buy a Christmas tree this year. I suppose it won't be too difficult to guess her reply.
Back to the name thing, I really want something that worked with the airplane and fit the philosophy behind the design. The airplane is a bit different from other F3A biplanes I have seen. I have seen either the top wing placed directly through the canopy or on front. I have not seen any other airplane that has the canopy halfway onto the wing. Not to mention the use of plug in wings at all. While surfing through Net Flix the other night looking for a movie to watch with the wife, it hit me square in the face. " Divergent ". It not only fits the different approach to the outline but also IMO is perfect for a biplane. Now the next decision.......do I mold the name into the side of the fuselage? I haven't seen it done before, wouldmit be worth doing?
11-11-2017, 05:45 PM
#181
One other thing I plan to do tomorrow is a sample lay up. I brought out an old Dalotel cowl mold and when I prime the Divergent plug I will pre prime the mold. When the primer tacks up I will do a sample lay up using the same resin system, cloth and core material ( 1/32 balsa ) that I plan to use on the Divergent layup. This will give me a good idea of the strength of the planned layup.
11-12-2017, 10:22 AM
#182
First coat of primer sprayed, How can anyone call this airplane ugly? Of course all the flaws are showing now, mostly fabric weave and pin holes. Will have to mix up a paste of epoxy and microballoons and hit the really bad areas, by the time the 3rd primer coat hits it should be almost show car pretty. The 4th coat will get wet sanded with 800 and 1500 wet. Then it's off to fabricate a parting flange.
11-12-2017, 01:21 PM
#183
Simple, that airplane is ugly. Primer didn't help. Just so you know, your wife said that both of us are banished to the kids table. See what you have done!!!!!
Primer thickened with microballons can be applied by hand to fill pin holes since it will get another coat of primer sprayed over it after sanding. The base coat of primer must be sanded or scuffed with scotchbrite first.
Scott
Primer thickened with microballons can be applied by hand to fill pin holes since it will get another coat of primer sprayed over it after sanding. The base coat of primer must be sanded or scuffed with scotchbrite first.
Scott
11-12-2017, 05:18 PM
#185
Shawn, I do my best to be amusing. You are correct in that it is not my type of plane, but you are my friend and a true craftsman so I will still give any advice I can. You are doing a fine job on your plane, it is still ugly, but you are doing a fine job on it. Who knows, I may just want to fly it once. I will do my best not to step on it on my way to the "Kids Table".
Scott
Scott
11-16-2017, 06:05 PM
#188
LOL..... I can't make up my mind about it now. The primer brings out details that are hidden before.... I can't say it is ugly but I can't say it is beautiful either. Time will tell on how it flies. I think that is where the beauty lies.
Ken
Ken
11-16-2017, 08:22 PM
#189
Ken, we know it will fly well. Shawn and I discussed the design and fabrication at length well before the building began. I just have to give him a bad time about it because I can. I don't find any modern pattern plane attractive, but that is a personal opinion. Form indeed follows function, and they look like they do in order to fly like they have too. To me all pattern planes look like flying pregnant fish, but if you study aerodynamics you understand why.
The plane is still ugly............................
Scott
The plane is still ugly............................
Scott
11-18-2017, 09:14 AM
#190
Ken, we know it will fly well. Shawn and I discussed the design and fabrication at length well before the building began. I just have to give him a bad time about it because I can. I don't find any modern pattern plane attractive, but that is a personal opinion. Form indeed follows function, and they look like they do in order to fly like they have too. To me all pattern planes look like flying pregnant fish, but if you study aerodynamics you understand why.
The plane is still ugly............................
Scott
The plane is still ugly............................
Scott
Ken
11-18-2017, 10:50 AM
#191
You are correct about that. I like the look of my Hydeaway but after a few contests flying against the more modern designs it became very obvious that I was at too much of a dis advantage. The newer airplanes work so much better on speed management and rolling. The pilot workload just seems to be much less. With that in mind there was lots of thought put into this design before construction began. I wanted a biplane for the added wing area. I did not want to put the upper wing onto a set of cabanes or pylon because that would mean moving the canopy back. In theory the more forward canopy will perform better but with a Bipe it need not be as far forward as with a mono. For simplicity of fabricating the tooling and fuselages I wanted a single hatch. At that point it was decided that the upper wing needed to be plug it. The fuselage sides needed good flat area. This helps with rolling and knife edge. The wings need the correct area, taper and thickness. Here is where some original thinking comes in. From the root to the intermediate section, the cord is reduced but the thickness is the same. The result is that the intermediate thickness is a thicker section. The same goes for the tip. The tip is not only a thicker percentage airfoil but as the wing progresses from the intermediate section the TE gets thicker. I am hoping that this will yield better tracking and slow speed handling. The stabs are rather thick as well. The templates used for cutting the stab cores are the same as the wing intermediate section and the tip section, although the tip template was dropped some on the CL yielding a slightly thinner airfoil. The lower wing is set to .7 degrees and the top to zero. My thoughts here is that while in level flight, the bottom wing is doing the majority of the work. This lesson was gained from sailplane experience where an airplane with higher wing loading will penetrate better. Any change in AOA however will bring the upper wing into play and the advantage of more wing area will come into play.
This is pretty much how I came to what you see to this point. Eventually we will find out if all my theory is correct or not.
This is pretty much how I came to what you see to this point. Eventually we will find out if all my theory is correct or not.
11-18-2017, 07:25 PM
#193
Looking good. I was hoping you knew to use a guide coat. Since it will be sitting until next weekend I now have a target, I will be there Friday. Before you get any smart ideas, your wife invited my wife and I. So, you can either deal with it or sleep on the couch..............................
Scott
Scott
11-19-2017, 07:17 AM
#195
It was style 7781 which is an 8.8 oz cloth which would have been a good weight for mold making but it also has a very tight weave which makes it wet out poorly. When doing multiple layers, it's almost impossible to not get air bubbles unless bagging. Obviously bagging my plug with a parting flange is not possible. When ready to make the mold I will just have to run down to Tap or try to find something on sale on line. If anyone knows of a good price on 8 to 10 oz plain weave cloth please let me know.
11-19-2017, 12:50 PM
#196
Ok, call me a liar........I got bored and broke out the sanding blocks. One thing for sure, guide coat does not lie. Still some low spots that need to be filled. Looks worse then what it really does. Most of the low spots can hardly be felt when I rub across them with my hand. If this were not a plug I Gould easily feather 80% of this out and it would be near impossible to see.
11-19-2017, 04:19 PM
#198
Thanks, I keep telling myself that getting it perfect now will pay off later. The fuselage sides are being blocked out with a 24" T bar so I was expecting every little flaw to show. One of the most difficult things to do I have ever encountered is to sand a wavy surface perfectly flat. I knew that was going to be a time consuming chore.
11-24-2017, 09:26 AM
#199
Obviously not much happening this week with the holiday. I did manage another coat of primer on Wednesday. Right now I have to say I am 95% done with getting it perfect straight. I have been blocking it out with 150 grit and a 24" block. I think I have one more round of that bot only on the flat area of the fuselage. The rest will be hit with 220 on a semi rigid sanding block. The next coat of primer should be the second to last and it will all be blocked with 320. Then a more reduced coat will be applied with a guide coat and blocked out with 400 grit wet. The next decision to make is to paint the plug or not. I am leaning towards yes as having a gloss finish will alert me to any flaws I may have missed. I remember that I have some Klass Kote silver left over from when I painted the wheels on my SUV ( can you tell I like Klass Kote ) so that will end up being used. I see the light at the end of the tunnel.
As a side note, I have to give a thumbs up to Hacker USA. I ordered a prop drive washer on Monday and it showed up on Wednesday. Not only did the drive washer fit perfectly but the finish on it is show quality. It came with a double jam nut and some G-10 spacers that should come in handy.
So now comes another decision...........T can??? With the layout of the main wings, putting a T can behind the canopy will actually place it above the upper wing. If nothing else I think it looks really good. Being that I plan to fly the airplane initially in primer, if it does not work out I can always remove it.
As a side note, I have to give a thumbs up to Hacker USA. I ordered a prop drive washer on Monday and it showed up on Wednesday. Not only did the drive washer fit perfectly but the finish on it is show quality. It came with a double jam nut and some G-10 spacers that should come in handy.
So now comes another decision...........T can??? With the layout of the main wings, putting a T can behind the canopy will actually place it above the upper wing. If nothing else I think it looks really good. Being that I plan to fly the airplane initially in primer, if it does not work out I can always remove it.