Comp ARF Valiant
09-30-2009, 08:10 PM
#1
Comp ARF Valiant
My Valiant arrived today. I thought I would start a new thread with component pictures. Perhaps a build thread depending on how quick I get to it.
Everything came in 1 box 75 x 21 x 12 inches in size. Heavy cardboard. No manual was included.
The fuse is 4 pieces the main fuse, belly pan, canopy and rudder. The belly pan has the mounting hardware installed, the canopy doesn't? Included are 4 carbon fiber balsa formers, what I believe are 2 carbon fiber ply firewalls and a fiberglass laminated balsa piece meant as a battery floor based on Jason's pictures.
The main fuse is 735 gms, canopy 155 gms, belly pan 77 gms, rudder 68 gms. The carbon fiber formers are 54 gms and the electric firewall is 41gms. The solid firewall is 59 gms. Batter floor is 36gms.
The wheelpants are white unpainted and weigh 36gms. The gear are unpainted carbon fiber and weigh 126 gms for the pair. They are undrilled. There is no slot for the landing gear cut in the fuse. Not sure if they go on top of the landing gear plate or under it yet
There is also a bag of accessories which weighs 87 gms. (accessories for wing stabs and fuse)
Everything came in 1 box 75 x 21 x 12 inches in size. Heavy cardboard. No manual was included.
The fuse is 4 pieces the main fuse, belly pan, canopy and rudder. The belly pan has the mounting hardware installed, the canopy doesn't? Included are 4 carbon fiber balsa formers, what I believe are 2 carbon fiber ply firewalls and a fiberglass laminated balsa piece meant as a battery floor based on Jason's pictures.
The main fuse is 735 gms, canopy 155 gms, belly pan 77 gms, rudder 68 gms. The carbon fiber formers are 54 gms and the electric firewall is 41gms. The solid firewall is 59 gms. Batter floor is 36gms.
The wheelpants are white unpainted and weigh 36gms. The gear are unpainted carbon fiber and weigh 126 gms for the pair. They are undrilled. There is no slot for the landing gear cut in the fuse. Not sure if they go on top of the landing gear plate or under it yet
There is also a bag of accessories which weighs 87 gms. (accessories for wing stabs and fuse)
09-30-2009, 08:16 PM
#3
RE: Comp ARF Valiant
The stabs and wings are both composite structures. The surfaces are center hinged in a unique Comp Arf method. The wing skin overhangs top and bottom esentially sealing the hing lines. The wing and stab tube are CF. The wing tube has a seam along it. The wing tube is a bit heavier than a similar sized Oxai tube.
The wing tube weighs 113 gms, stab tube 16 gms, left stab 121 gms and right stab 122 gms. The right wing is 414 gms and the left wing 401 gms. Weights are hinged, just need servos horns and linkages. The trailing edge of the wing is beveled.
The wing tube weighs 113 gms, stab tube 16 gms, left stab 121 gms and right stab 122 gms. The right wing is 414 gms and the left wing 401 gms. Weights are hinged, just need servos horns and linkages. The trailing edge of the wing is beveled.
09-30-2009, 08:18 PM
#4
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RE: Comp ARF Valiant
We gotta help each other out. My Valiant arrived two days ago, but I haven't had time to do anything but unpack it.
Lack of a manual will have me scratching my head to figure out the parts and pieces, but not too bad I've done an Impact and Shinden.
I'll be doing an electric.
Steve
Lack of a manual will have me scratching my head to figure out the parts and pieces, but not too bad I've done an Impact and Shinden.
I'll be doing an electric.
Steve
09-30-2009, 08:31 PM
#6
RE: Comp ARF Valiant
Steve I think most of it should be straight foward. Hopefully a look through the Impact and Integral manual will guide the similar areas. Hopefully Bryan and Jason will chime in if an area is in question. I supect that several of the carbon fiber balsa pieces are used for a fuel tank mounting and are probably not used in the electric version.
Ryan the vent holes in the cowl are cut out. Exhaust vents need to be cut for the electric version. I find it a bit strange that the belly pan is mounted but not the canopy. Wing and stab tubes are mounted. No incidence adjusters on either.
I hope they followed Bryan's directions
Stuart C.
Ryan the vent holes in the cowl are cut out. Exhaust vents need to be cut for the electric version. I find it a bit strange that the belly pan is mounted but not the canopy. Wing and stab tubes are mounted. No incidence adjusters on either.
I hope they followed Bryan's directions
Stuart C.
09-30-2009, 11:56 PM
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RE: Comp ARF Valiant
Post what questions you have here and I'll try and answer them as soon as I see it.
The carbon formers with the square cut out are the tank formers. Hope Bryan doesn't mind me showing his proto install.
Gear- Mount it on the bottom if building for electric. It won't have enough ground clearance if it's mounted above the plate.
Firewalls are straight forward. If you are going to open the firewall area openings in the front of the canopy area, make sure to leave a radius in the corners, same for the underside as well.
I keep my horns inline with the outer edge of the servo. The rudder horn should be centered in the rudder block. Hold the rudder up to a bright light and you should be able to see it.
The open carbon former is a continuation of the rear canopy former. This might take a bit of 'fitting' for install, but is necessary.
For glow I recommend that the hatch use 2 carbon pins in the rear centered up the sides, 2 hooks on each side, and 2 screws holding the front sides down.
For electric I recommend that the hatch use 2 carbon pins in the front, 2 hooks on each side, and a hatch latch at the top rear.
The carbon formers with the square cut out are the tank formers. Hope Bryan doesn't mind me showing his proto install.
Gear- Mount it on the bottom if building for electric. It won't have enough ground clearance if it's mounted above the plate.
Firewalls are straight forward. If you are going to open the firewall area openings in the front of the canopy area, make sure to leave a radius in the corners, same for the underside as well.
I keep my horns inline with the outer edge of the servo. The rudder horn should be centered in the rudder block. Hold the rudder up to a bright light and you should be able to see it.
The open carbon former is a continuation of the rear canopy former. This might take a bit of 'fitting' for install, but is necessary.
For glow I recommend that the hatch use 2 carbon pins in the rear centered up the sides, 2 hooks on each side, and 2 screws holding the front sides down.
For electric I recommend that the hatch use 2 carbon pins in the front, 2 hooks on each side, and a hatch latch at the top rear.
10-02-2009, 10:39 AM
#11
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RE: Comp ARF Valiant
I am absolutely thrilled that they got rid of the horrible unsightly seam that runs down the middle of my Integral. With the quality of my Integral kit I was surprised that they didn't put in the extra effort it would have taken to feather that in a little bit.
The plane looks great! Keep the pictures and updates coming. I can't wait for the flight reports.
Anthony
The plane looks great! Keep the pictures and updates coming. I can't wait for the flight reports.
Anthony
10-02-2009, 11:14 AM
#13
RE: Comp ARF Valiant
The seam is there. Take a look at the picture of the canopy I posted.
Started on the landing gear today. Pretty easy as it is easily accessable from top and bottom. I'll post a few pics later once it is complete.
Stuart
Started on the landing gear today. Pretty easy as it is easily accessable from top and bottom. I'll post a few pics later once it is complete.
Stuart
10-02-2009, 12:27 PM
#14
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RE: Comp ARF Valiant
That's too bad. It's like the little dent in the Ferrari. It's a gorgeous airplane still. I thought about sanding filling and refinishing the seam on my Integral but decided to just fly it instead. My fear is that the paint won't be a good match and I will put in a ton of work to make it worse. It wouldn't matter nearly as much if the rest of the airplane wasn't absolutely gorgeous.
10-02-2009, 07:52 PM
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RE: Comp ARF Valiant
ORIGINAL: AAbdu
That's too bad. It's like the little dent in the Ferrari. It's a gorgeous airplane still. I thought about sanding filling and refinishing the seam on my Integral but decided to just fly it instead. My fear is that the paint won't be a good match and I will put in a ton of work to make it worse. It wouldn't matter nearly as much if the rest of the airplane wasn't absolutely gorgeous.
That's too bad. It's like the little dent in the Ferrari. It's a gorgeous airplane still. I thought about sanding filling and refinishing the seam on my Integral but decided to just fly it instead. My fear is that the paint won't be a good match and I will put in a ton of work to make it worse. It wouldn't matter nearly as much if the rest of the airplane wasn't absolutely gorgeous.
Cheers, JB
10-03-2009, 12:30 AM
#17
RE: Comp ARF Valiant
First steps for me is always the landing gear so the plane can sit on the workbench by itself. Should be straight foward but provided the first hiccup of the build.
I like to get things as close to perfect as possibble (fits the description of most pattern fliers.) In order to make sure both gear halves are aligned the same way I extend a line on my building table from a typical green cutting mat with a 1" grid on it. With the tail and the nose on the centerline I can check that both gear are equally placed on both sides of the fuse. See the first 2 pictures.
This is my third electric build so I have learned to try to save weight whenever possible. This will often add up to an ounce or two when done. The supplied steel cap screws, washers and blind nuts for mounting the gear weigh 14 gms. Switching them to aluminum cap screws and aluminum washers with a standard 6-32 blind nut brought the gear mounting hardware down to 7 gms. Blind nuts were glued into the landing gear plate from the inside.
The wheels and wheel pants are next. The supplied steel axles and nuts weigh 13 gms (a bolt for an axle, 2 nuts and a nylon accorn nut for each side). I prefer NMP aluminum axles (see pics).Weight is only 5 gms complete. The wheel pants will take 2 1/4 to 2 1/2" wheels.
I chose to go with 2 1/2" Dubro lite flite wheels which weigh 23 gms per pair. Although a couple of grams heavier than listed on the package they are the lightest of the standard sized wheels that I have found. If you fly regularly off asphalt then you will need to replace them during the season as they wear easily.
The 2 1/4 " wheels only weigh 16.5 gms. I required a spacer to center the wheel in the pant (neccessary if using the 2 1/2" wheels.) A prop adaptor from an APC prop was the perfect diameter and thickness to center the wheel. I know I save all of those extra adaptors for something
The wheelpant is held at the proper incidence by a 2nd 2/56 cap screw through the landingear and into the wheelpant. 1 blind nut on a small piece of 1/8" lite ply is glued o the inside of the pant.
Try to keep this screw as far away from the NMP axle as possible. If too close to the wheel axle it will be easier to rotate the pant. This wheel pant mounting method has worked well for me on 2 Oxai planes even when flying off grass. Of course if you fly off thick grass like at the Black dirt field in Goshen NY (they grow velcro there) you will have to remove te wheel pants
The Comp Arf gear does not have much of a flat spot to mount the wheel pant too. The 2nd 2-56 screw will pull the pant over, so it is a compromise of how far away you can put it and how much you want to deform the pant. I would prefer a larger flat area like the old Bolly gear or a molded interlock between the gear and the pant as one company makes (can't remember which).
The issue came when trying to mount the belly pan while the landing gear is attached. The rear portion interfeared with the gear already in location. Because the gear are close to the rear of the belly pan area it is impossible to slide the alignment dowles into their corresponding holes with just a slightly oversized gear cut out.
Choices would be to enlarge the rear of the cutout by 3/8 to 1/2 inch, a little bit uglier, and may weaken the rear corner of the belly pan. Cut 6 holes through the bottom of the belly pan to place the gear mounting screws, also uglier, or reverse the direction from which you attach the gear. A PIA as the gear is already mounted, but the best cosmetic result. Now if you think you will have to remove the belly pan (chin cowl) frequently then only the first option would work. Enlarge the opening. I do not see a need for the belly pan in an electric version and would prefer if they made the fuse without it for electrics. One last choice would be to mount the gear above the ply plate as you can for glow but this would require longer gear for electrics.
I like to get things as close to perfect as possibble (fits the description of most pattern fliers.) In order to make sure both gear halves are aligned the same way I extend a line on my building table from a typical green cutting mat with a 1" grid on it. With the tail and the nose on the centerline I can check that both gear are equally placed on both sides of the fuse. See the first 2 pictures.
This is my third electric build so I have learned to try to save weight whenever possible. This will often add up to an ounce or two when done. The supplied steel cap screws, washers and blind nuts for mounting the gear weigh 14 gms. Switching them to aluminum cap screws and aluminum washers with a standard 6-32 blind nut brought the gear mounting hardware down to 7 gms. Blind nuts were glued into the landing gear plate from the inside.
The wheels and wheel pants are next. The supplied steel axles and nuts weigh 13 gms (a bolt for an axle, 2 nuts and a nylon accorn nut for each side). I prefer NMP aluminum axles (see pics).Weight is only 5 gms complete. The wheel pants will take 2 1/4 to 2 1/2" wheels.
I chose to go with 2 1/2" Dubro lite flite wheels which weigh 23 gms per pair. Although a couple of grams heavier than listed on the package they are the lightest of the standard sized wheels that I have found. If you fly regularly off asphalt then you will need to replace them during the season as they wear easily.
The 2 1/4 " wheels only weigh 16.5 gms. I required a spacer to center the wheel in the pant (neccessary if using the 2 1/2" wheels.) A prop adaptor from an APC prop was the perfect diameter and thickness to center the wheel. I know I save all of those extra adaptors for something
The wheelpant is held at the proper incidence by a 2nd 2/56 cap screw through the landingear and into the wheelpant. 1 blind nut on a small piece of 1/8" lite ply is glued o the inside of the pant.
Try to keep this screw as far away from the NMP axle as possible. If too close to the wheel axle it will be easier to rotate the pant. This wheel pant mounting method has worked well for me on 2 Oxai planes even when flying off grass. Of course if you fly off thick grass like at the Black dirt field in Goshen NY (they grow velcro there) you will have to remove te wheel pants
The Comp Arf gear does not have much of a flat spot to mount the wheel pant too. The 2nd 2-56 screw will pull the pant over, so it is a compromise of how far away you can put it and how much you want to deform the pant. I would prefer a larger flat area like the old Bolly gear or a molded interlock between the gear and the pant as one company makes (can't remember which).
The issue came when trying to mount the belly pan while the landing gear is attached. The rear portion interfeared with the gear already in location. Because the gear are close to the rear of the belly pan area it is impossible to slide the alignment dowles into their corresponding holes with just a slightly oversized gear cut out.
Choices would be to enlarge the rear of the cutout by 3/8 to 1/2 inch, a little bit uglier, and may weaken the rear corner of the belly pan. Cut 6 holes through the bottom of the belly pan to place the gear mounting screws, also uglier, or reverse the direction from which you attach the gear. A PIA as the gear is already mounted, but the best cosmetic result. Now if you think you will have to remove the belly pan (chin cowl) frequently then only the first option would work. Enlarge the opening. I do not see a need for the belly pan in an electric version and would prefer if they made the fuse without it for electrics. One last choice would be to mount the gear above the ply plate as you can for glow but this would require longer gear for electrics.
10-03-2009, 08:44 AM
#20
RE: Comp ARF Valiant
Since I have no reason to remove the belly pan at the field I chose to reverse the mounting method. Screws from the top. First problem was to remove the already glued in blind nuts. I made a puller out of a piece of 1/2" CF tube goes around blind nut, and a piece of 1/8" CF with a 6-32 screw through it. Easily pulled the blind nuts out wothout damaging the landing gear plate. See first two pictures.
The blind nuts were then relocated to the bottom of the gear. Drill the holes out to the right diameter and glue them in place. I cut the prongs off the blind nuts first. You can push them into the CF gear with a vise but it doesn't always work.
Mount the belly pan first, then slide in the gear and attach from above.
Next step will be to install the fuse former, rudder tray and firewall. I can already see that the rudder tray will be an issue.
The blind nuts were then relocated to the bottom of the gear. Drill the holes out to the right diameter and glue them in place. I cut the prongs off the blind nuts first. You can push them into the CF gear with a vise but it doesn't always work.
Mount the belly pan first, then slide in the gear and attach from above.
Next step will be to install the fuse former, rudder tray and firewall. I can already see that the rudder tray will be an issue.
10-03-2009, 10:46 AM
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RE: Comp ARF Valiant
Stu, just hope you don't have to remove, repair, or replace your landing gear. Don't know if you took into consideration that the battery tray will cover some of those bolts. I guess you'll need to make sure you put holes in the right place on the tray so you can get to the bolts for removal.
10-03-2009, 11:51 AM
#24
RE: Comp ARF Valiant
The rudder tray and rear former are next. My first trial fit of the rudder tray almost met with dissaster. It is hard to get into position behind the preinstalled former. Once behind there it was obvious that I would not be able to get it into proper position without breaking the fuse sides. It was just as difficult to remove
I made some balsa sticks to measure the width where the front and rear of the former should be. I found the rudder tray to be about 1/4" too wide. A picture shows the red marker lines that it needed to be cut too. After cuting to width it fit where it was supposed to go. There are two 1/4" square (or so) balsa strips that the rudder tray should lie on. One was about 1/8" lower than the other and a small ship had to be placed to level the rudder tray. After adjuting the notches in the preinstalled former a bit it now fit well.
My "light" method of servo mounting to balsa composite structures is instead of gluing a piece of ply below the composite I insert small pieces of yellow nyrod for the screws to go into. The holes for screws are already in the rudder tray and the cutout fits a standard size servo (I am going to use a JR 8411SA). Just open the holes insert the yellow nyrod and wick in some thin CA. Cut flush at the top and you have a light method to hold servo screws.
The other fuse former that goes below the preinstaled one at the rear of the wing openig just required minor sanding to fit into place. Glued in place with slow epoxy and microballoons. (glue is drying) The firewall will be next.
I made some balsa sticks to measure the width where the front and rear of the former should be. I found the rudder tray to be about 1/4" too wide. A picture shows the red marker lines that it needed to be cut too. After cuting to width it fit where it was supposed to go. There are two 1/4" square (or so) balsa strips that the rudder tray should lie on. One was about 1/8" lower than the other and a small ship had to be placed to level the rudder tray. After adjuting the notches in the preinstalled former a bit it now fit well.
My "light" method of servo mounting to balsa composite structures is instead of gluing a piece of ply below the composite I insert small pieces of yellow nyrod for the screws to go into. The holes for screws are already in the rudder tray and the cutout fits a standard size servo (I am going to use a JR 8411SA). Just open the holes insert the yellow nyrod and wick in some thin CA. Cut flush at the top and you have a light method to hold servo screws.
The other fuse former that goes below the preinstaled one at the rear of the wing openig just required minor sanding to fit into place. Glued in place with slow epoxy and microballoons. (glue is drying) The firewall will be next.
10-03-2009, 09:51 PM
#25
RE: Comp ARF Valiant
The rear former and rudder tray are glued in. I used 30 min epoxy mixed with Sig micro balloons. Sig micro balloons are brown not white which is why my glue joints are brown.