sierra_bravo

Hello,
I've been flying for close to a year and I want to get into pattern. I've got a FMS sbach 342 that I practice the sportsman sequence on but I've been wanting a nicer balsa plane for a competition at my local field thats coming up on October 3-4. I've been looking online and have found a good couple of planes but before I buy one I wanted to get some opinions from some people who fly pattern.

My requirements are
less then $150 for an ARF
Nitro capable
Balsa
Good flying/quality
able to use an OS .46AX
able to do stall turns, split s, lmmelmann turns, and cuban eights

So far I found these planes(all of them are ARFs)

Tower Hobbies Kaos 40-$130
Haven't done alot of research on it

Great Planes Escapade MX-$140(before $10 rebate)
Seems to be a good flying sport plane of good quality. I also love the way it looks annd the price isn't to bad for a Great planes plane

Phoenix Model SeaBee-$135
This is the only one that says pattern plane. Read some review of it online and it seems to be ok. Not awesome quality and the Escapade MX is only $5 more

Phoenix Model Typhoon-$140
This one is more of a classic pattern plane. Similar to the SeaBee and it apparently flies nice. But for the price I would get the Great Planes Escapade MX knowing it is better quality

Phoenix Model Extra 300S-$130
I know this is more of a 3d plane but you can always lower the rates and calm it down. Not sure how well it flies but I have read that it tip stalls at low speed


So those are the five contenders. So far my favorite is the Escapade MX because of the looks, price, and Great planes quality. But I want to be sure I'm spending my money wisely which I'm asking for advice.

Also if anyone has any recommendations for a plane that meets my requirements please tell me.

-Sam

flightpack

Out of your choices, I would say the Kaos, or the Typhoon.

Reasons being would be the tri-gear, which (with practice) would help take-off and landing scores, less dihedral in the wing which will help with rolls, and longer tail moments, which smooth out loop and pull radius from being too sensitive. It would also help with rudder corrections.

I would consider the weight as well, try to research all you can, so you can utilize all the power that your engine can produce effectively.

All the planes you listed will fly the pattern, but these two in my opinion would be the best to work with, with your requirements.

I'm slowly getting back into pattern myself, but when I got into it years ago, I had these same requirements. I didn't have arfs to choose from in 1981. Had to build/afford the kits myself.

...Sean...

sierra_bravo

Thanks for the quick reply
So after doing research and finding out that the kaos was a really popular pattern plane back in the day. I'm pretty sure that I'll but the kaos over the escapade MX and the Typhoon. The reason I would buy the Kaos over the typhoon is that I already bought a tower hobby plane(the tower trainer 40) and I loved it. It was good quality had all the parts and was easy to build. Sadly I can't really afford the kaos right now and there are some really good sales at tower hobby like free shipping and $20 off $150. But I do have the coupons that they send out every month so when I can afford it I will atleat be able to save $10. I also have to check my LHS to see if they sell it. They also sell used air frames and they might have a good cheap pattern plane.
-Sam

flywilly

My Feedback: (121)

You can't go wrong with any of the Kaos designs. They all fly great and make excellent pattern trainers. I flew two .40 sized and a Super Kaos 60 back in the early-mid '70s. Success in pattern is finding a reliable airplane that is set up properly and then practicing...a lot! Find a mentor, if you can, it will really help!
Good Luck!
-Will

sierra_bravo

Were the Kaos's you flew kits are ARFs. Also for a mentor at my local flying field there is a instructor who taught me how to fly who's been flying for 40+ most of the time he flew pattern years. He also competed in NATS and in F3A competitions. So I'm pretty sure that I have a good teacher

Also about 1 month ago I finally purchased Real flight to practice maneuvers and routines and I have the sportsman routine memorized. I still havent flown it in real life though but i have spent a good 24 hours practicing(and memorizing) it on the simulator.

Thanks for the quick replies
-Sam

flywilly

My Feedback: (121)

Hi Sam,
No. There were no ARFs back then or for at least the next 20+ years. I am and always will be a dedicated builder from scratch and kits. Simulators and ARFs certainly have helped make the learning curve less steep for newcomers. Who is your instructor?
-Will

sierra_bravo

Yeah I heard that back in the day your only options were kit building or scratch building. My instructor's name is Jerry Phyler. I know he use to do a lot of F3A competition and I think he went to Switzerland once. Now he goes to the NATS every year but does not to compete. I think he still does pylon racing but I'm not sure.

-Sam

OliverJacob

My Feedback: (12)

I have an old pattern plane, Airtrax 46, have an OS 46 FX on this, great aerobatic plane.
I might sell it....

airraptor

My Feedback: (66)

I will say the Typhoon looks the best and looks like it was modeled after the Flash 45. Run the 46AX with baffle and a big prop like a 11x7 or a 12x6 to keep rpm down and get some more thrust. This will keep the noise down too. Use small servos like HS 5245s and a small LiFe pack of around 600-800 Mah. try to make it as light as you can.

sierra_bravo

So i'm going to go with the kaos. I have read alot of positive things about it. It's not in stock right now but on the tower hobbies website it says it be in stock early September. I'll call my local hobby shop tomorrow to see it they have it or something similar to it in stock. I have a 12x6 wood prop that i never used on the OS and i may but a 11x7 to also try out.

-sam

dakoris73

For what its worth, my first pattern plane was actually the Phoenix Seabee with a magnum 52 4 stroke on it, and it was a great plane for learning and flying the Sportsman pattern with. Unfortunately, after 6 seasons of flying it, lost the plane due to elevator servo going bad on it during an inverted pass. This plane flew smoothly, easily, and would definitely get another one if my hanger had any more room in it. I didn't have any issues with the covering, structure, or had any defects on the one I had, and enjoyed the plane immensely.

sierra_bravo

Did the seabee have dihedral.
-sam

dakoris73

no.... the seabee has a one piece wing flat wing which plugs in underneath the fuse. This plane looks and flies much like a larger pattern plane just on a smaller scale.....

sierra_bravo

So after some more thinking I may not get the kaos but insted i might get the typhoon simply because it's in stock and I would be able to get free shipping plus $20 off. Also the rudder on the typhoon has a airfoil shape unlike the kaos which has a flat rudder/horizontal stabilizer. The typhoon is slightly heavier then the kaos(according to the tower hobbies website) The Kaos weighs 6lbs and the typhoon weighs 6.2lbs and the Escapade MX is actually the lightest but also the smallest. It weighs 5.5lbs(again according to the tower hobbies website) but has a short 45" fuselage. The koas's fuselage is only a bit longer then the Escapade MX at 48.5" long and the typhoon has both the longest wingspan at almost 60" and fuselage at 53" but I'm not sure if it has a fully symmetrical airfoil since on the phoenix models website it says that the wing is a NACA airfoil but judging from the photos it looks pretty symmetrical. With the typhoon I am worried that my os .46 axii wont be able to produce enough thrust. I know it would be able to fly the plane but I'm not sure if it would be able to hold it in a vertical up line. The wing spar in the typhoon is aluminum but I don't think it's aircraft grade so I'll probably change it to a carbon fiber or something lighter.

Of course I want to invest my money in the right place and may end up buying the kaos or a plane from my local hobby shop.

-Sam

sierra_bravo

So I did some research on how to get max thrust and pulling power from my engine and I found this thread. Judging from the result of the experiment I would imagine that I would want something like a 12x4 to get the max thrust but slower speed or a 11x5 to get more speed but less thrust. I think that a 11x5 would be best for my need as I need the plane to have a good top speed and a good amount of thrust. I may order the typhoon with the easy pay option and a 11x5 prop today.I called my local hobby shop they didn't have a lot of used plane or in fact not many new ARF pattern planes mostly trainers, warbirds, and sport models like ugly sticks.

-Sam

sierra_bravo

Double post

sierra_bravo

So after a lot more research and a lot more thinking I decided to buy the Great Planes Avistar Elite.

No I'm just kidding. I bought the typhoon on the easy pay program, a standard hitec servo since I needed an extra servo, some CA, and a XOAR 11x6 wood prop. I never used XOAR and wanted to give it a try since they seem like a popular brand. Also when someone looks at the plane and they see the XOAR prop they'll think I'm some sorta super professional pattern pilot(or a SPPP). I don't like the look if the tires that come with the plane and I might put on some 3" rubber tires is they aren't to heavy.

hopefully everything will arrive this week and I might get the plane ready by next Monday. So who wants to see another build thread about this plane.

-Sam

Kevin Duncan

My Feedback: (2)

Sam, I think you made a good choice. Not necessarily because it's the right plane, but that you can get it airborne sooner than you could with a Kaos. The Sportsman sequence can be flown with any sport plane capable of flying basic maneuvers. I can appreciate you starting out with a plane that wasn't necessarily designed for pattern flying, or at least designed for modern pattern. The reason I point that out is because I see too many people get into pattern too early in their flying career and jump straight into a multi-thousand dollar aircraft because that's what the pros fly. What they don't realize is that all of the top pilots started out with planes like the one you're getting and have learned how to muscle a plane through a tough maneuver. When you start out with the latest and greatest, you don't learn those skills, as modern planes tend to simplify pattern.

I would even recommend that you start flying the pattern with your trainer, as best as you can. There isn't a single maneuver in the Sportsman sequence that a trainer can't do. Won't be as pretty as what the Typhoon will do for you, but it will teach you some invaluable flying skills that will definitely benefit you in the future.

I wish you luck on your new endeavor and welcome to the wonderful world of pattern!

Kevin

sierra_bravo

I feel like I made the right choice when I bought this plane. I'm really interested in what all the other people competing in the 401 class are going to be flying.The guy who helps me practice pattern said that most people think that they need some $2,000 competition grade model just to fly basic sequences when you could use a good $200 sport model. I know it all comes down to the skill of the pilot. I cant really do beautiful straight long lines even with a $6k oxai plane but their are guys who could win the masters class with only a ugly stick. One important reason why I bought a nitro plane is because when I'm at my flying field practicing pattern instead of flying for 7 minutes and then waiting 1 hour for the lipo to charge I can fly for around 15 minutes land, refuel, and take off in less then 10 minutes.

Thanks for the encouragement.

-Sam

castlebravo

Far out....based on this thread, I just ordered a Typhoon with free shipping and a $25 discount. I normally fly IMAC but wanted a cheap plane to practice Pattern with for when those contests were in town. I have a bunch of left over "guts" from a CarbonZ Cub after a motor swap that will work perfectly for this so other than the cost of the airframe....I'm getting away with it fairly cheaply......Bonus!


CB

Smooth Pilot

Actually you are correct, you can fly the sportsman sequence with just about any sport airplane. In fact, I won my first two sportsman pattern contest with a Big Stik 60. Some of the guys commented that they hope I never get a 2-meter plane. The important thing is to have fun, ask questions and learn to use your throttle smoothly and rudder as necessary for corrections instead of ailerons. I am in my second year of competitions now and still having some difficulty adhereing to my own advice.

sierra_bravo

So I finished day one of building. Nothing was broken or missing. The plane it's self is high quality the covering job is beautiful and everything fit perfectly. The wheels I didn't like so I'm going to use my 3" rubber wheels. The fuel tank was pretty good and will work just fine but if I had a 12oz dubro fuel tank I would use that. The fuel tubing was really thin and squishy so I used some dubro fuel line. The plane builds really quickly and I'm sure I'll finish it tomorrow.

Here are some photos

Kevin Duncan

My Feedback: (2)

Looking good Sam! Nice looking fleet of planes in the background too!

Just got through reading my Sept. 2015 Model Aviation and (if you haven't done so already) you need to check out the RC Aerobatics column on Page 103. Perfect timing for you as you enter pattern flying. I'm anxious to see the rest of your build and how she flies! Just curious, where do you live? Hope to see you on the pattern circuit one of these days.

Kevin

sierra_bravo

Yeah I have a pretty much constantly changing fleet. Before I had around 3 dollar tree foam planes. Got rid of them and right now I have foam ugly stick, an FMS Sbach, the tower trainer(that i'm going to sell), and the typhoon.
Since I'm an junior AMA member(i'm 13) I don't get the magazine but I'll find it online or buy it from a book shop.

I got the landing gear installed and I'm working on the motor and servos. I have more some photos later.
Oh and I live in Charlotte NC.

-Sam

Kevin Duncan

My Feedback: (2)

I wouldn't be too quick to sell the trainer, unless you need the money to fund the Typhoon. To this day, I still enjoy taking my trainers out and flying them around. Like I said, your Tower Trainer will fly the pattern and the inputs you have to make to get the plane to fly the maneuvers will help you be a better pilot overall. Also, if nothing else, take your trainer out and shoot touch and goes all day long. After a stressful day of practicing pattern, it's nice to fly a relaxing flight with a trainer. Like you, I started flying pattern when I was 13 years old and I had a low-wing tricycle sport plane similar to your Typhoon. It served me well, as will yours.

If you haven't done so already, look into joining the NSRCA (www.nsrca.us). The National Society of Radio Control Aerobatics is the AMA's Special Interest Group for Pattern Flying.

Having just moved out west after flying pattern in Virginia, I personally know several pilots in District 2 that live in Charlotte, and you would benefit from flying with every one of them, as you can learn different things from each. You'll find that pattern pilots love love helping out new competitors. D2 pilots are about the best I've ever met!

Good luck and look forward to seeing more updates on your build!
Kevin