GW-inactive

My Feedback: (4)

2 days flying = 12 flights per week

30 weeks average = 360 flights

360 flights @ 20 oz a flight.

7200 ozs of fuel = 57 gallons

57 gallons @ $20 Gallon

$1140 Fuel cost for the DZ




Batteries for unlimited flying $1300

Ability to not have to put up with Glow fuel planes anymore.

Priceless!!!




Doug,

WHen you say "Power will remain equal for long past a flight duration".

You mean power will remain at the same level through one pattern flight and then begin to drop off, or the power will remain equal through the average 22 minutes of the battery life. Meaning you could get in 2 full flights (2 takeoffs, 2 patterns, 2 landings) on one charged pack and have the same power through both flights start to finish?????

If thats the case , the EPower revolution will arrive faster than I would have ever thought.

Thanks for all the good info. Keep us posted with the building of the plane.

can773

My Feedback: (1)

Jeez must be nice to get 30 weeks of flying season.......we are lucky if we get 15-20.......

raptor5900

My Feedback: (4)

lets see I fly 3 times a week with about 6 flight a day........right now i have a .91 FX so it doesnt suck up fule but when i get my mintor 170 that has about the same suck as a DZ so i wouldnt mind E-power.......BUT its not the overall cost for me its just that if i have to pay $1300 all at once on fule wow!!

Neo02

That's exactly the point. People are still afraid of spending large amounts of money at once. I was at the r/c fair in Friedrichshafen last week and saw Sebastiano Silvestris Funtana on E-Power: I went just "wow - amazing" all of the time! The Hacker-Brushless stand was litterally taken by assault by the crowd. I do not deny that I was tempted to grab my credit card and "go wild", but...

After careful thinking I decided to wait one or two more years before switching to e-power. BUT: I also decided to sell all my glow-powered planes under 2m (I still have a Tai-Ji 40 and some other sport planes on glow) or convert them to electric. So I can make a few experiments in this field while keeping costs low (sort of) and be ready - in terms of knowledge - to make the big leap when the necessary $$$ is available. Schulze charger and some lipos for a small [link=http://www.rc-ultimate.de]Ultimate Bipe[/link] are on their way to Lugano.

Doug, keep us updated as you progress, it is more than interesting!!! [8D]

Regards
-Fabrizio

Doug Cronkhite

My Feedback: (34)

If you're running the 10s4p's, I was told they had roughly 27 minutes of flying time. Considering most people don't use the full 10 minutes in an FAI flight (can.. but not usually), then the flight time would be reasonable for 2 flights without recharging. Practically however.. you have generally more than enough time to let the batteries cool, and recharge them before your next round, so recharding after each flight would be best.

Keep in mind.. using this practice.. you only NEED 1 battery pack which reduces the cost by 1/2 for your 'fuel' source. I would still have a second pack as a spare.

Wild Beat

But how many cycles do the packs last?

Doug Cronkhite

My Feedback: (34)

Well that's the big question. Jason's packs he used before, during, and after the WC are still going strong. He flies WAY more than I so, so that's good enough for me. If I can get a full season out of the packs I'm happy. Anything else will be gravy.

Wild Beat

If you have to buy new batteries every season, then the price won't be that much different to that of running the Dingo. ($1140 for the DZ to $1300 for the batteries, and thats running both of them hard I think!) Electric should be great in a few years!

Dave Smith

Jeez must be nice to get 30 weeks of flying season.......we are lucky if we get 15-20.......

Chad: Move to the East Coast:- Halifax for example.

GW-inactive

My Feedback: (4)

Actually 30 weeks as I stated is conservative. Its actually only about 12 weeks of weather its unpleasent to fly in. Meaning less than 40 degrees. Close to 40 good weeks of flying here in Bama.

Right now its 58 degree on Novemeber 8. Heating up as the coming week rolls in.

Not to good for us in the propane business though.

I agree with you Doug, anything over the 1st year will be icing on the cake, but i bet using 2 packs (1 then the other on the next flight) you will get over a year on the packs. Thats of course acknowledging there is no impact trama with mother Earth.

MarkNovack

My Feedback: (3)

Hi Doug and all,
Yes, I think that some folks may be forgetting one tiny thing about electric power. Batteries, even very fancy ones have a finite life span. Yes, I do forsee a savings, a very significant savings over fuel costs in the long run, but every once in a while a pack will go flat, a cell go bad, and even the motors will not last forever. It is not a buy once in a lifetime issue and fly forever. The actual fincial results will be interesting to see. Is there any form of warrenty on the batteries should a cell go flat or should the whole pack flatten prematurely?

One of my small issues is my almost horror of the cold and getting glow fuel with 30% nitro on my hands compounds that problem. Electric really sounds much easier to bear in poor weather and once it is all sorted out, there is a little less monkeying around...more time to sit in the car with the heat blasting away while others are taking up the airspace.

We are looking forwards to your success Doug.

Mark

Doug Cronkhite

My Feedback: (34)

One thing you guys need to remember is I'm not forging any new ground here. Jason used the exact same setup as me to prepare and compete in the F3A WC. The only difference is I'm using an 'off the shelf' kit instead of a custom, fully molded airframe.

can773

My Feedback: (1)

I think Marc makes a good point, if you spill a gallon of fuel big deal, but if a battery goes south or you roast it because of doing something wrong thats a $500+ US pill to swallow that most might not be willing to take. Thats my major concern about the whole deal basically if something goes wrong with those batteries its going to cost you some serious coin to get flying again.

Kudos to those developing this, I hope it all works out

Wild Beat

On the other hand, if a DZ goes wrong, not only does it have the power to destroy itself, it has the power to crack the fuselage.

can773

My Feedback: (1)

I can fix a crack in the fuse for free I have yet to be able to rejuvenate a toasted battery without buying a new one

Wild Beat

Yes but can you fix a toasted Ys for free? Both have their adv's and disadvantages, and I think that in 5 years time, it will be a great time to enter in electrics.

can773

My Feedback: (1)

My point is not the motor but the batteries, either electric or gas if you have engine problems you have engine problems they are both going to cost something to fix. Your batteries are essentially your fuel......how ofter do you have to replace $500 US of fuel because it went bad or you did something to damage it, never in my experience.

Not properly caring for those cells could end up costing some big dollars if they need replacement, suddenly you will find yourself spend a lot more on electric then you ever would have on glow.

I am not against it, I just think there are too many unknowns to jump in head first for me.

mc71

Having used electrics for a long time and lithiums for several years, I can tell you that you have to be doing something really stupid to do serious damage. If you are careful, check everything twice then you wont have any problems.

Matt

flyintexan

My Feedback: (1)

It seems to me (by no means am I an electric expert) that as time passes (monthly) battery prices continue to fall. By the end of this coming season, it is likely the cost per pack (for a 2M) may be significantly less, that is, if it follows the current trend of li-po's, motors, and speed controllers. The cost for glow fuel has not dropped in years. Perhaps another e-advantage that I have not seen mentioned here (I may have missed it, sorry) is the lack of fuel residue and vibration that takes it toll on an airframe over the course of just one season. I have seen electric aircraft with over 1000 flights that still look new.

I am really excited to see people venturing into this and working out the details for people like myself that will not be able to afford the up-front cost until the prices come down a bit. Another significant cost right now too is the lithium capable chargers. Chargers that are capable of charging several lithium cells in series are by no means cheap. However, I see this as another item that will fall in price as time passes, probably rather quickly too. I will be very interested too in following your progress with your setup.

Good luck and thank you for your venture into this area.

Just my 2 cents.

GW-inactive

My Feedback: (4)

The new Astro lithium charger is a top performer and its price is around $110.
It is capable of high amps (10 i think) which will be needed for the 9s packs. No need for a $400 charger. Hirate is coming to market with some packs that are about 25% less price than the TP packs. Competition is heating up in the Lipo market, that will be good news for the modelers. Hirate is in the process of bringing into the US a 5000 mah cell capable of 10c continuous . That would allow a 8s1p pack to fly the AMA masters. with less weight to boot.
Good stuff coming in the next year.

Doug Cronkhite

My Feedback: (34)

I think people are mistakenly afraid of the LiPoly batteries. They DO have some catastrophic failure modes, but these are easily watched and handled with education. They don't tolerate misuse that's for sure. Used properly however, they're very safe and VERY capable.

darkvader

Will the LI-Poly Batteries introduced in the F3A competition, make down the prices of the classic 2S and 4S motors?. And about the Fuel; Will it drop?

I hope so!

Doug Cronkhite

My Feedback: (34)

Well.. I'm going to put the F-86 on hold for a bit to get going on the Supreme. Pictures will follow as I build the beastie. I should get started on it tonight or tomorrow.

pizza

My Feedback: (24)

One thing you guys need to remember is I'm not forging any new ground here. Jason used the exact same setup as me to prepare and compete in the F3A WC. The only difference is I'm using an 'off the shelf' kit instead of a custom, fully molded airframe.

Holy cow! Jason's Rhapsody was "right off the shelf" Mach Composites in Czech Republic who makes this kit had no idea that Jason had purchased one for electric use. Mr. Mach actually produces two Rhapsody's one for glow and one for electric 150g lighter - Jason had the glow version. The only difference between Rhapsody and Supreme - since Rhapsody is completely moulded and pre painted in the mold, it will take 3 days to complete. The Supreme will take 3 months and when you add a ton of paint you will have to leave off the landing gear to keep under weight, it will be very cool when you launch and retrieve by hand. hey it is all in good fun, you better keep me on the IMAC list! please

PS. Ed at escomposites.com is the new US dealer for Mach kits, there electric versions are very light and inexpensive. Electric is the future but composite is only way to go.

Doug Cronkhite

My Feedback: (34)

Actually Jason stated in his article in Quiet Flyer that his Rhapsody kits for the WC were special light layups.

-Doug