TonyF

My Feedback: (92)

Hi,

I thought I would post a few pics of the motor installation in my PL Partner. I'm using a Hacker C50 14XL and have basically just tried to duplicate the installation in the Rhapsody that Jason flew at the world's. This consisits of a front plate that the motor bolts to, and this front plate bolts to a front former through 4 rubber grommets. The rear support has a hole that is bushed with some split fuel tubing, and that support is bolted to an aft former. Overall not too difficult, and very light. For the front plate I used some .090 carbon plate. The front former is 1/8" carbon-end grain balsa-carbon laminate. The aft support os .080 carbon plate, and the aft former is 1/8" carbon-rohacell-carbon laminate. I must have worn out a dozen jig saw blades cutting out all that carbon!

The model is ready to paint and cover. Can't wait to get it into the air!

Thanks!

TonyF

My Feedback: (92)

Some more pics.

TonyF

My Feedback: (92)

Last two. BTW, the formers were glued in using BVM Aeropoxy. Great stuff, stays in place when applied and is very strong once cured.

That big 22" prop makes this model look small, but the Partner is really a big model. If this works out as well as I think, next on the agenda is a PL Lazulite for electric.

Thanks!

Doug Cronkhite

My Feedback: (34)

Nice job Tony.. We're taking over

I can see the slogan already..

"Just Say No to Glow"

AdrianM

It's amazing how little that motor looks in the the plane and how much power it puts out! You will have some tremendous down line braking with that huge windmilling prop!

robhoneycutt

Looks like you have the motor supported perfect! When will you fly her?
Is there a airscoop for cooling air?

Rob

TonyF

My Feedback: (92)

Thanks for the comments. I'm going to finish the covering and fly it before I paint the fuse, so maybe this weekend, at the latest the weekend after. If all goes well I'll then paint the fuse. No problem doing that, it won't get any oil on it!

I hadn't cut the cooling intakes yet when I took the pics. There are now side intake holes and a intake on the chin cowl. I'll put a balsa baffle in the chin cowl to direct air up to the motor/controller/batteries. Tonight I'm going to cut the exhaust holes in the back of the fuse.

can773

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What charger and batteries are you using for this setup?

Doug Cronkhite

My Feedback: (34)

Batteries are the Thunder Power 8000mah 10s4p Lithium-Polymers. I don't know which charger Tony is using but I'm using a pair of Schulze ISL 6-330d. My batteries are actually 2 x 5s4p's 8000mah connected in series.

can773

My Feedback: (1)

Thanks Doug

Do you need the 8000 mah packs? I thought Jason was running only 6000 mah?

You wouldnt happen to have a weight of the motor/gearbox, controller, and batteries combined would you?

Doug Cronkhite

My Feedback: (34)

Sorry.. typo on my part. I'm running the 10s3p 6000mah. Tony is using the 10s4p 8000mah.

No weight yet.. Soon as my batteries arrive.. I'll get it for you. That 13ga wire adds up too.

TonyF

My Feedback: (92)

Thanks for answering Doug.

I will be using two 5s4p packs in series. I have talked extensively to Hacker and Thunderpower, and they said the 3p's may not hold up well to continous use. Too much current coming out of them. For long cycle life they recommend the 4p's. They only used the 3p's to get the Rhapsody comfortably under the weight limit. I have yet to weigh anything seriously yet, but I'm hoping the Partner will come out under 5kg using the 4p's. If not, I don't really care, I don't intend to go to the world's again! If I go to a Nats or such I'll get a couple of 3p packs just to use during the contest flights.

Right now I have an Orbit charger, but I'm looking at a pair of the Astro 109's. Cheaper and can put out more current, however it is strictly a lithium charger.

I plan on posting a complete weight schedule once it's determined.

robhoneycutt

I have both the astro's and orbit's.. although thunder power likes the orbit better, I like the speed of the astro. you just have to watch it at the beginning thorugh the first cyle to make sure it does not change the cell count. Thunder Power has noted several times that this has happened.

the 10S4P packs weigh about 3.15 pounds depending on the configuration. the motors w/ gears are around 1.3 pounds .

AdrianM

Are you sure you should fly before painting? I mean your plane will be coated in goo....oh right nevermind...

mups53

My Feedback: (41)

I thinking that the weight rules for E planes should be different than IC planes in that your always weighing the E plane with it's fuel load versus the dry weight on IC. I just think it makes things more fair. E. planes are here to stay. Thanks for your efforts as an early developer I'm sure that it's all a learning curve and in the future it will only get better.
Tony if things go better than even you expect I hope you change your mind and give it a full blown go again. Your talent is rare and your an impact flyer. Mike

Aresti-RCU

My Feedback: (1)

Yeah you should weight it after you discharge the battery......anybody knows how much an electron weights?

TOYMAKER

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I think the electric should have the advantage or handicap of at least the weight of the fuel in common 1.40 size IC.
Most of them use a 20oz tank and I think that relates to about 1lb in fuel weight.
New ground being broken here.

WG

raptor5900

My Feedback: (4)

the e-engines are lighter but the batterys wiegh ALOT.

Doug Cronkhite

My Feedback: (34)

The weights of a power system, glow or electric giving equal flight time are pretty even I'd think when you count the weight of the fuel. The 10s4p 8000mah will give you about 23 minutes of flight time. If what I hear holds true about the weight limit going away in F3A, then all this is no issue at all.

robhoneycutt

Especially if you subtract the 8+ ounce receiver battery and replace it with a UBEC (1 ounce)...

TonyF

My Feedback: (92)

Can you give me some details on the UBEC? I was wondering if we could do that.

I did some weighing of items, and right now it looks like the weight with the 4p packs will be just over the 5kg limit. 3p's would put it 13 ounces lighter, so I'd be well within. I'm going to do a few things to try to lighten some more, like aluminum screws, nylon gears in the servos, aluminum spinner adapter, etc. and I may get it under the limit with the 4p's.

One thing to keep in mind when discussing weight, you can't just compare the weights of the batteries, motor, controller to the glow power system. You can build the model much lighter for electric then for glow when you realize it won't be getting the vibration pounding the glow planes get now. Servo mounts, control linkage systems, hatch attachments, etc., can all be lighter. I'll post what the bare airframe weighs when I finish.

Mike,

Thanks for the kind comments. I don't think I'll ever be an F3A competitor again. I'm pushing 50 yrs old now and frankly I think F3A is a young man's event. It's just too complex for my available time anymore. The patterns are too complicated and the unkown throws a whole new loop into it. I'm planning right now on just dabbling with Masters. I'll do local meets and maybe go to the Nats every now and then. Just doing it for fun now!

Thanks!

robhoneycutt

the UBEC (Ultimate BEC) is from koolflightsystems.com

Jeff Meyers is the proprietor and co-inventor of the product.

it's available in 4.8 and 6volt output models. I use them in all my planes. They are reliable and weigh virtually nothing. I cannot think of a reason not to use them in every high E powered application.

Good luck!


Rob

GW-inactive

My Feedback: (4)

Great info Doug and Tony, Keep it coming!!

GW

JAS

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I think you misspelled ElectrifRied....LOL...sorry, bad joke around the shop. Looking good Tony. Curious about the Laz also when your done with it .

I'm gonna try and get my new plane(s) to be <5kg with the 10S4P pack just for the reason of being less load on the packs. And even though you "could" fly for 25 minutes at time, it's not recommended because of the heat build up on the motor and abuse on the batteries. Besides, if you need to fly for 25 minutes a practice flight, you need to just fly for fun..... Break practice into 3-5 ten-minute flights. My opinion, but if you fly for any longer than that, I believe that you would be wasting valuable "learning" time. Let things settle in and learn from the mistakes (or gains) in the flight. And if it's one of those days, pull out the sport plane and have fun.

I chose not to run any BEC on my planes, not because of the BEC's themselves, just the thought of something going wrong with the pack. Having my luck, it would be the pack designated for the BEC that was the problem and I'd be out of a plane. Thrust me, if I thought I could get away with it, I would (on my plane, not the borrowed ones), but I like that little bit or reassurance.

As for weight....Obviously the 6100's were the big saver, but believe it or not, grams were counted when doing this project. Aluminum and titanium screws and nuts were used throughout (and we couldn't get the aluminum servo screws in time). We weighed a few different brands of product and chose the lightest ones (plug alert, Du-bro wheels were the lightest, including the park-flyer tailwheel). Fiberglass/Balsa laminates (couldn't get the honeycomb in time) and carbon plate, all lightened up as much as possible. It's amazing how every little bit adds weight. We got so crazy as to think of removing things like Rx case and shrink-wrap on everything shrunk! Although I believe those were the REALLY LATE nights. Try weighing everything as you build your next project and see what you come up with. If/When I do another glow pattern plane, you can bet I will have PLASTIC fuel dots...

TonyF

My Feedback: (92)

Thanks for chiming in Jason. I'll certainly keep in touch when I get these things going.

What about using two UBEC's, one on each 5s4p, then hook them up redundantly into the RX? Still lighter then separate batteries.

I did a search for aluminum hardware today and have got a bunch of aluminum socket heads from 4-40 to 1/4-20 coming. I also think the spinner could be a bit lighter. I'll give Tru-Turn a call and see what they think.

Anybody know if Ultracote is lighter then MonoKote?