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Showtime for Pattern flying?

Old 10-20-2005, 11:18 PM
  #26  
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Default RE: Showtime for Pattern flying?

I couldn't bring myself to hard mount the engine, so here's a few pics of how I modified a Hyde A mount to fit the OS .91 going in the nose. I just used what I had, so this was originally a mount that fit an OS 1.40 RX. I cut the beam mounts supplied with the kit. Overall weight of the mount is 4.4 oz, which is acceptable I think. So this added about 2 oz from the stock beam mount weight, but I'm basically getting some of that back since this is going to have a 3 oz CF pipe to replace the 6.5 oz OS muffler Header weight is unknown, probably going to be under 2 oz and since I will use a teflon coupler system, that doesn't add enough weight to really worry about. Hopefully this will be a good setup. Thanks to Nat in La for a good deal on the ES pipe!
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Old 10-21-2005, 12:40 PM
  #27  
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Default RE: Showtime for Pattern flying?

can you post a pic of the pipe installation ie.. Fuselage mod when you get a chance?

Thanks!
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Old 10-21-2005, 07:48 PM
  #28  
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Default RE: Showtime for Pattern flying?

Will do. Just brought the header home tonight, will probably have it all done Sat AM.
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Old 10-23-2005, 01:33 PM
  #29  
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Default RE: Showtime for Pattern flying?

OK, I hit a snag with the header drop being short about 1/4" and got hung up making an aluminum spacer. This is why we save bent landing gear, for just such occasions when materials stock is needed. The engine ended up being rotated about 80 deg to make the header exit line up properly. Unfortunately, the head now pokes through the side, but I can live with that. Had to do a little bit of shimming behind the Hyde mount to eliminate some up and left thrust that snuck in with the new beam mounts. Must have not got the hole alignment just right. Anyway, it looks like it will work out well. Have not done the pipe mounts to the fuselage yet, that should be fairly easy. The plan is to just hang them from O-rings like I usually do, so just a few small hardpoints have to be added with a isolating spacer somewhere along the way.

This might be more trouble than it's worth, but what the heck, we'll see how it flies when the weather clears.
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Old 10-23-2005, 08:00 PM
  #30  
Don Szczur
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Default RE: Showtime for Pattern flying?

Did some more setting up and checked a few CG locations. With the CG just at or slightly forward of the leading edge at the tip, seemed to be just fine, or maybe just a little nose heavy, but it flew well. The other one I flew did not have a cowl and it had a light muffler setup. It felt tail heavy. This one had the balance at about 1/3 of the chord at the tip. Great for 3 D with high rate but a more optimum place is closer to the first one. .
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Old 10-23-2005, 11:15 PM
  #31  
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Default RE: Showtime for Pattern flying?

Ed,
You might run into that header breaking with the muffler that far from the rotational point of the Hyde. Even though you are after saving weight, I would insert a soft silcone coupler just after the bend before the connetion to the pipe.

Regards,

Eric.
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Old 10-24-2005, 12:00 AM
  #32  
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Default RE: Showtime for Pattern flying?

Eirc, it's a concern to be sure. I'm hoping that it may not move as much as is typical since it is using a 1.40 mount, so it won't have the same torque to bang with as what the mount is built for. Nevertheless, I may just take that precaution. It's looking like it may tend to be a little tailheavy anyway, so it would work out favorably.

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Old 10-24-2005, 03:00 AM
  #33  
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Default RE: Showtime for Pattern flying?

Anyone running the EVO 1.00 in this rig, if so what muffler are you running and how is the performance?
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Old 10-25-2005, 12:58 AM
  #34  
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Default RE: Showtime for Pattern flying?

Ended up doing a different type of O-ring hangar on this, mainly because there just isn't alot of structural "meat" at the fuselage bottom to make hard points for the O-rings the way I usually do. Normally, It would be using a pair of screws and washers on either side of each "hanging station", then the O-ring just goes around the pipe, with a twist or two on either side, then under the washers and snugged up. Here, I ended up making centered hard points. The aft one is designed to both suspend the pipe and to maintain some "tug" forward to keep it from sliding aft. That one is just a little eye hook to grab the ring. The other one is a screw/washer (silver soldered together) and the O-ring is double looped under it to stay put and then the pipe is slid through. Looks like it will work, but I will be grinding the head of the screws down to give more clearance and avoid wearing a hole through the pipe. This isn't exactly what I thought I would do when I started the project, but should work. I would like to see other solutions to this.
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Old 11-01-2005, 06:55 PM
  #35  
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Default RE: Showtime for Pattern flying?

I finally flew my Showtime for the first time today. About 3 minutes into
the first flight I was really comfortable with this plane. It was a little
strange at first since I am used to flying the 28% Extra, but it was nice.

I set the plane up with triple rates:
Low was Don's settings he posted here.
Mid was the recommended low rate in the manual
High was the recommended high - but I think I only used 35 degree's on the ailerons

I flew the plane without the SFG's installed. The plane needs more right thrust,
pulled to the left pretty good on up-lines. It had very little coupling in knife edge
at low and mid rate, mine wanted to roll upright just a little. The CG seemed just
right at 7-1/2!QUOT! back for the leading edge at the fuselage, 45 degree up-line let
go and it stayed on track for a few feet and just slightly started to taper off.
Landing was a little fast, but it was not a problem, I had a 15x8 APC prop on it
but I also have a APC 16x6 to try out.

Setup:
OS 120 4 stroke
Hitec 5645's all around
SWB aluminum arms all around
Rudder servo in the tail
2400 Lithium Ion Rx pack
MPI switch and regulator
True Turn FAI aluminum spinner
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Old 11-03-2005, 09:53 AM
  #36  
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Default RE: Showtime for Pattern flying?

Hey Dick, a couple guys(me included)are having a problem with the plane snapping during tight loops and when pulling up elevator from a down line, to me, its the only bad trait this plane has and not all are experiencing it. Mine weighs in around 10lbs, has a Moki 1.35 in it, CG is at recommended spot, has been balanced laterally.I use tripple rates, it happens at medium rate(about 80% throw with 75% expo, its slightly less than 45 degrees elevator at mid rate.) I'm not hitting full elevator when it snaps to the right(always right), I dont think I'm pulling the sticks more than half way. A thread is growing on this, I know there is many things we can try to solve this but maybe you can save us all some time and effort,any ideas??
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Old 11-03-2005, 10:28 AM
  #37  
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Default RE: Showtime for Pattern flying?

I have had the same problem with mine snapping to the right also. I did not see any warps in the wing and figured it is that my right elevator is either faster or moving futher then the left so I turned the attachment on the 8-32 screw on the elevator 3 turns out and it seems to have tamed it down some what.

Since that has help with the snap I moved the screw again but weather is turning to Windy and cold so not sure if it will fly again till spring.

Did not notice any other change in flight since doing it. But I am not a pattern flyer so exact movement evade me.

Hope this help
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Old 11-03-2005, 01:51 PM
  #38  
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Default RE: Showtime for Pattern flying?

I've been helping a local friend of mine with this airplane and he had some serious weird things happening similar to what you guys are.
In looking over the plane I found that the stab tube had loosened in the fuse and in both stabs as well.
I could move by hand the stab leading edge up and down at least 3/4 of an inch.
After he fixed everything, most of the strange trim changes unsurprisingly.....went away!
The servo gears were another problem.....those big control surfaces just eat up the gears in no time.
The plastic geared servos will last a lot longer.
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Old 11-03-2005, 02:46 PM
  #39  
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Default RE: Showtime for Pattern flying?

So if not this plane for a try at pattern what does everyone recommend?
Thanks!
JLK
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Old 11-03-2005, 03:01 PM
  #40  
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Default RE: Showtime for Pattern flying?

Any of the current ARF's that are designed for Pattern.....
The Showtime is designed primarily for 3D.
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Old 11-03-2005, 03:05 PM
  #41  
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Default RE: Showtime for Pattern flying?

I thought this was a discussion about using the Showtime for beginning pattern.
No?
Seems like folks are having trouble.
If someone could answer with a specific alternative...
Thanks.
JLK
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Old 11-03-2005, 03:14 PM
  #42  
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Default RE: Showtime for Pattern flying?

no trouble for me.... the plane flies straight and smooth, with great 3D too....

I'm using mine to practice IMAC when I don't want to fly my gasser
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Old 11-03-2005, 07:54 PM
  #43  
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Default RE: Showtime for Pattern flying?

I flew the plane 4 or 5 times that day and it never snapped on me.

My right stab was out 1 degree out of the box, easy to fix if you do it before
you drill and tap the stab tub.

I did take my time and used a laser incidence meter and a Hitec digital
servo programmer to set up everything just right. I have the elevator
servo's programmed perfectly so the radio has all end point set to 130,
all sub trims set to 0, and all dual rate numbers are equal in both directions.

I read about the snapping and decided to disregard it until I had set-up and
flown it myself. So far it flies solid... I did do a couple of Walls into a hover
and it never snapped. I also did the lateral balance test... dive straight down
with low throttle and pull to level flight, no snapping.

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Old 11-03-2005, 11:00 PM
  #44  
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Default RE: Showtime for Pattern flying?

Not suprising it doesn't snap using 3D rates and doing a Wall. Most of those reports of unexpected snapping sounded like they were using a lot of elevator, but not all of the 3D travel available, so they were getting it into a typical acceleratde stall without ever transitioning into "3D Barndoor mode". I would expect a snap in that case, especially if the airframe is overweight at 10 lbs. Go spend $7K on your favorite 40% whatever and it will do the same exact thing. Everything sounds quite normal actually.

I haven't flown mine yet, will hopefully have some weather for it this weekend.
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Old 11-03-2005, 11:45 PM
  #45  
Don Szczur
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Default RE: Showtime for Pattern flying?

Give it 1/8 inch left rudder trim (at the front of the counter balance), take two asprin and call me in the morning.

For pattern flying, I recommend 10 degrees of elevator throw. It does everything smooth at this rate. It will not snap out no matter what at this rate. I do recall the one I flew needed some left rudder trim for pattern flying as well for hands off up lines.

Don
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Old 11-06-2005, 05:31 PM
  #46  
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Default RE: Showtime for Pattern flying?

Hey, I finally got some air time with the Showtime this weekend. Saturday ended early due to a stripped out geartrain in a 9411, but it revealed much about throw adjustments needed and also that I had some fuel draw problems. Those ailerons are hugely effective, WOW! This is thefirst airplane Ihave not been able to keep up with the full roll rate for 3D rollers and I had to dial it down a fair bit, so now I have something nearerhe recommended throws. I tried using all the throw I could get at first, which was good for a few laughs, but that was about all.

Anyway... today, much better re. the engine fuel draw after adding a pressure tap on the tuned pipe. Now if only the main bearing hadn't gone bad, things would have been even better. Tried the SFGs - wow, lotsa effect there. I was somewhat surprised at how much they seem to blank out some of the wing area and reduce aileron effectiveness during lower speed, high yaw angles. I expected some effect, but there comes a point when there is a very sudden rolling imparted, which really doesn't characterize itself as a normal snap. It's more like 25% of the area on the one wing just went away and it rolls decisely, but fairly cleanly in the opposite direction to the rudder being applied. I guess I'm just overdoing things as I am still learning the airplane.

It sure is fun though. Once I got the feel for it a little better, rollers were effortless (3D and otherwise). KE Loops, a breeze. Pinwheels, can't seem to get through the last 1/3 too well yet, but the first 2/3 is impressive. Good waterfalls, not much tendency to roll out. Very nice Walls, upright and inverted. I have to work on it, but I think it can probably do a knife edge Wall. Harriers are OK, probably needs some aileron reflex to help stabilize a little better. TRs, though I am fairly rusty with them right now, seem pretty well behaved. Blenders and stationary flat spins are A-OK. Actually, not quite stationary yet, just a very slow descent rate, but I think it will work out with a better prop on it. Currently using 15x10 APC pattern cut, may need something with more authority for low speed work. The OS 90 with the ES CF pipe works real well. The isolation mount works great. It's very quiet, very smooth and the throttle transition is reasonably good. I think that when the main bearing is replaced, that will straighten out even more. Maybe a little more nitro too - using only 15% right now.

Did the Masters once through with the SFGs removed and it's respectable enough. I have done nothing of any real substance to trim it yet, so it is bound to improve, but it was very reasonable. I think it will meet all the expectations I had, I just have to learn more about how those little SFGs affect things. Thinking about making a set of my own to try to reduce some of the unwanted effects, we'll see.

Thumbs up!
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Old 11-06-2005, 05:59 PM
  #47  
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Default RE: Showtime for Pattern flying?

Hey NJRCFLYER2

Just a fair warning about those KE Walls. The SFG's are very thin and fragile. They will not hold up in high speed/high drag manuvers.

Glad to hear that you like the plane. Keep flying it and you'll soon love it. I do mine!

Good Luck!
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Old 12-19-2005, 07:03 PM
  #48  
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Default RE: Showtime for Pattern flying?

i seen one of these babies fly this weekend:

Satio 100
DS 811 elevators and ailerons
8417 rudder

flew 3d and imac very well to include T-rolls.
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Old 01-07-2006, 07:07 PM
  #49  
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Default RE: Showtime for Pattern flying?

well i just had to get me one hope to maiden it soon with a YS-120
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Old 01-07-2006, 09:36 PM
  #50  
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Default RE: Showtime for Pattern flying?


ORIGINAL: Dave Harmon

Any of the current ARF's that are designed for Pattern.....
The Showtime is designed primarily for 3D.

Hmmm... to my admittedly ignorant (of things Pattern) eye, the ST looks quite similar to the photos of F3A ships I see. I would imagine that a true Pattern airplane wouldn't have those huge control surfaces; but aside from that, what's the difference? I'm not even considering those SFG thingies; I'm talking about the basic airframe shape/lay-out.

Like exeter_acres, I bought one for a back-up IMAC/knock-around plane. Maidened it today. I have an incidence issue (I think; I'm carrying excessive aileron trim. Won't know for sure until I put the meter to it), but it flies pretty good as is. That is to say, better than I can hold it. It was far to windy to do any serious trimming, but I think the plane has potential for what I want it to do.
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