Genesis ARF build, glow version
11-06-2005, 05:17 PM
#51
RE: Genesis ARF build, its here.
DEPS is basically complete and the elevator servo is installed. Im a little pissed that my support is crooked, but it looked straight when I set it in. It doesnt seem to effect the free travel so Im going to leave it,,, (maybe not if I can cut it loose and reset it I will), I dont want to take a chance on damaging the fuse by pulling it out. .
All I need to do now is setup the ends on the elevators and connect the linkage to the servo arm. I will do that later. ...
Edit: servo arm linkage is now connected and moves very smoothly. I am very pleased.
All I need to do now is setup the ends on the elevators and connect the linkage to the servo arm. I will do that later. ...
Edit: servo arm linkage is now connected and moves very smoothly. I am very pleased.
11-06-2005, 07:25 PM
#52
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RE: Genesis ARF build, its here.
Mike, that balsa floor is only 3/32 glassed on one side, are you sure you will glue the servo mount directly to it with no reinforcement ?
11-06-2005, 09:13 PM
#55
RE: Genesis ARF build, its here.
Thanks Steve. I have an idea of how Im going to deal with that, just havent gotten to it yet. Heres a quote from Todd regarding the way he mounted his elevator servos and a pic below. I know his is working really well. If theres anything under the pipe floor supporting the servos maybe he will explain when he reads this. I figured since I built the bottom of the servo mount tray out of 3/32 ply and glued it to the floor it would provide most of its own reinforcement since it covers a pretty decent surface area.
The firewall on this thing is 3/32 glassed balsa eh?, All im planning to do there is put a plywood ring on the back side for the blind nuts on the motor mount to have something to grab into. I have some pics from Todd and I know his has held up fine.
Bill, I mixed some epoxy and micro balloons together and let it barely get tacky so it wouldnt drip.. As Troy said in the instructional he just posted I "lubed it up" on the ends. The guide tubes stick out about 1 1/2" past the end of the balsa rails so there was no danger of getting glue on the pushrods when I inserted them through the fuselage as long as I got it in there correctly on the 1st try and didnt have to pull it back out. I got a good bit of glue back there. Another way I think I could have done it was with a hypodermic syringe with a large needle like a turkey basting syringe. You can insert the needle through the pushrod exit hole and apply the epoxy to the former that way but it has to be pretty thin, and I didnt want glue running everywhere. . ..
Anyone please feel free to contribute if you can see a better way to do any of this, Im honestly open to suggestions and do not claim to be a pro. Im just documenting my build so maybe others can learn from what I do right and wrong. I just want to build it light but strong.
ORIGINAL: toddblose
rgreen
I used the hyde control horns from Central Hobbies, and for the elevator I used 2 servos under the rudder,
mounted to the pipe floor with the carbon pushrod set from Central Hobbies
Aresti-RCU
I would leave the pipe floor in, and for the motor mount just use a lite-ply ring behind your motor mount
to keep the blind nuts from pulling through the balsa firewall. That is how I did it on my ARF Genesis
and it works great. My Genesis ARF with a DZ 140 weight 10.7 oz RTF with NI-Cads
rgreen
I used the hyde control horns from Central Hobbies, and for the elevator I used 2 servos under the rudder,
mounted to the pipe floor with the carbon pushrod set from Central Hobbies
Aresti-RCU
I would leave the pipe floor in, and for the motor mount just use a lite-ply ring behind your motor mount
to keep the blind nuts from pulling through the balsa firewall. That is how I did it on my ARF Genesis
and it works great. My Genesis ARF with a DZ 140 weight 10.7 oz RTF with NI-Cads
The firewall on this thing is 3/32 glassed balsa eh?, All im planning to do there is put a plywood ring on the back side for the blind nuts on the motor mount to have something to grab into. I have some pics from Todd and I know his has held up fine.
Bill, I mixed some epoxy and micro balloons together and let it barely get tacky so it wouldnt drip.. As Troy said in the instructional he just posted I "lubed it up" on the ends. The guide tubes stick out about 1 1/2" past the end of the balsa rails so there was no danger of getting glue on the pushrods when I inserted them through the fuselage as long as I got it in there correctly on the 1st try and didnt have to pull it back out. I got a good bit of glue back there. Another way I think I could have done it was with a hypodermic syringe with a large needle like a turkey basting syringe. You can insert the needle through the pushrod exit hole and apply the epoxy to the former that way but it has to be pretty thin, and I didnt want glue running everywhere. . ..
Anyone please feel free to contribute if you can see a better way to do any of this, Im honestly open to suggestions and do not claim to be a pro. Im just documenting my build so maybe others can learn from what I do right and wrong. I just want to build it light but strong.
11-06-2005, 10:14 PM
#56
RE: Genesis ARF build, its here.
Mike,
Attached is two pictures of my side mount elevator servo. I used 1/4" end grained balsa as a side to side stiffner to reduce the pipe floor flex. This installation was pull-pull cable. My elevator servo mountng bracket broke loose with only one side to side brace. I then put one brace in front and a second behind the servo. This modification cured the pipe floor flex. It would be best if the brace can also tie into the fues side.
Steve
Attached is two pictures of my side mount elevator servo. I used 1/4" end grained balsa as a side to side stiffner to reduce the pipe floor flex. This installation was pull-pull cable. My elevator servo mountng bracket broke loose with only one side to side brace. I then put one brace in front and a second behind the servo. This modification cured the pipe floor flex. It would be best if the brace can also tie into the fues side.
Steve
11-07-2005, 01:05 AM
#57
RE: Genesis ARF build, its here.
Thanks Steve, that makes sense. 2 joists to the front and rear of the servo tray tied into the fuselage. Im going to look at it in the morning when I get home. Should be pretty easy to do and would be pretty light.
11-07-2005, 04:48 AM
#58
RE: Genesis ARF build, its here.
I just found something out that those of you reading may not know (and I did not know) about the Genesis that I got from Bills thread over in the electric forum. The fuselage is made of a composite with a foam layer sandwiched in between. If you are going to use any CA when tacking things to the fuselage itself, you need to use foam safe CA. Especially if you use accelerator, it will burn through and melt the foam.. Yikes, Im glad Bill mentioned it..
11-07-2005, 05:28 PM
#59
RE: Genesis ARF build, its here.
Pull pull is completed. This part was too easy. A little scary.
All I had to do to the fuselage was slightly trim out the exit holes (Which were already marked from the factory[8D]). I used a Central Hobbies pull pull hookup, but I intend to switch the wires with some kevlar.
All I had to do to the fuselage was slightly trim out the exit holes (Which were already marked from the factory[8D]). I used a Central Hobbies pull pull hookup, but I intend to switch the wires with some kevlar.
11-07-2005, 09:13 PM
#61
RE: Genesis ARF build, its here.
Thanks Bill[8D],,
I dont know if its the camera, or the setting that you are taking your pictures in or what it is, but your whole installation looks really super clean and it looks like you work in a Dr.s office. Mine is coming out pretty clean but your pictures are remarkable.. Really good work.
I dont know if its the camera, or the setting that you are taking your pictures in or what it is, but your whole installation looks really super clean and it looks like you work in a Dr.s office. Mine is coming out pretty clean but your pictures are remarkable.. Really good work.
11-08-2005, 10:16 PM
#62
RE: Genesis ARF build, its here.
OK I found another flaw but Im not sure if it is significant enough to worry about. The left elevator half is thinner than the left stab at the root. Now out at the tip of the elevator they match up fine. I would estimate that the elevator is about 1/16-3/32 thinner than the stab. It looks like I may have gotten an elevator from a different stabilizer or something. There is no way they were cut out from the exact same stab, I just cant see how unless they sanded the heck out of the elevator. Maybe Im just being too picky, I am trying to get in touch with Chip and see what he thinks. What effects if any may this have on flight???..
As you can see in the picture, the bottom is closer to flush than the top.
As you can see in the picture, the bottom is closer to flush than the top.
11-09-2005, 07:46 AM
#63
RE: Genesis ARF build, its here.
Finally the rear pushrod connectors are dry and the rudder and elevator servos are being driven by the TX in these pics. Pic on left neutral, pic in the middle full up, pic on the right full down... Everything moving in perfect symmetry with zero linkage tweeking.. Apparently the slight variance in thickness isnt going to effect the throw balance,,,,
Todd you were right, when I hooked up the linkage it pulled the twist out.
I really like these pics,,,Yeah baby...
Todd you were right, when I hooked up the linkage it pulled the twist out.
I really like these pics,,,Yeah baby...
11-09-2005, 07:36 PM
#66
RE: Genesis ARF build, its here.
Well I saved myself a few bucks... I realised that the plane I am scavenging parts from to build this plane already has a CF wingtube. Its a perfect fit.... Now I just have to replace the one in my Eagle.....
Oh and by the way,,, Steve, I did go ahead and reinforce the elevator servo that is mounted to the floor with a cross brace, it did stiffen things up without really adding any weight or taking up any of the "limited"
[8D] space in the fuselage of the Genesis....
Oh and by the way,,, Steve, I did go ahead and reinforce the elevator servo that is mounted to the floor with a cross brace, it did stiffen things up without really adding any weight or taking up any of the "limited"
[8D] space in the fuselage of the Genesis....
11-10-2005, 08:12 PM
#67
RE: Genesis ARF build, its here.
OK, got the aileron servos mounted today. Had one minor problem.
The triangular hardpoints that are preinstalled in the ailerons to accept the Chip hyde horns were not in the same place. One is in the correct place and one is about 1/8" further away from the root than it should be. I didnt measure 1st and just trusted that the hardpoints were in the exact same place and lined up the horns in the dead center of the triangle.
It became very obvious when I attached the pushrods, one had perfect geometry at the neutral position and the other side the pushrod angles out towards the tip a bit to get to the control horn. Its just a little bit slightly <1/8", but enough to matter. I still have enough hardwood on the hardpoint to move the horn over to get the right geometry. No big deal, Im going to fix it in the morning and it will be perfect. I will use the little trim scraps from the aileron servo hole to cover the little control horn screw hole!
Coming right along!
All I really have left is to install the motor mount, engine, engine servo, landing gear and setup the gear in the cockpit area to balance it out..
The triangular hardpoints that are preinstalled in the ailerons to accept the Chip hyde horns were not in the same place. One is in the correct place and one is about 1/8" further away from the root than it should be. I didnt measure 1st and just trusted that the hardpoints were in the exact same place and lined up the horns in the dead center of the triangle.
It became very obvious when I attached the pushrods, one had perfect geometry at the neutral position and the other side the pushrod angles out towards the tip a bit to get to the control horn. Its just a little bit slightly <1/8", but enough to matter. I still have enough hardwood on the hardpoint to move the horn over to get the right geometry. No big deal, Im going to fix it in the morning and it will be perfect. I will use the little trim scraps from the aileron servo hole to cover the little control horn screw hole!
Coming right along!
All I really have left is to install the motor mount, engine, engine servo, landing gear and setup the gear in the cockpit area to balance it out..
11-11-2005, 11:03 PM
#68
RE: Genesis ARF build, its here.
OK working on the engine mount. Theres no doubt that my mount is a little bit thinner than the old Hyde mounts about 3/16-1/4" thinner.
Heres how Im doing this.
1. Cut a wooden ring the same exact size as the nose diameter and as thick as you want the spinner be spaced from the nose.
While the ring is still on the bench, tack the spinner backplate to the wooden ring dead centered.
Tack the ring to the front of the nose with CA so that it fits perfectly centered over the nose.
I do have one problem. If the 160 DZ is the same dimensionally as the 140 sport then I am going to have to shim up behind the mount to get it to fit corectly. Crap. I am going to go and look for some dimensions on the 160 and see how it matches up with the 1.40. If they are identical I am going to proceed. If not Im going to wait until the 160 gets here just to be certain. we will see......
Heres how Im doing this.
1. Cut a wooden ring the same exact size as the nose diameter and as thick as you want the spinner be spaced from the nose.
While the ring is still on the bench, tack the spinner backplate to the wooden ring dead centered.
Tack the ring to the front of the nose with CA so that it fits perfectly centered over the nose.
I do have one problem. If the 160 DZ is the same dimensionally as the 140 sport then I am going to have to shim up behind the mount to get it to fit corectly. Crap. I am going to go and look for some dimensions on the 160 and see how it matches up with the 1.40. If they are identical I am going to proceed. If not Im going to wait until the 160 gets here just to be certain. we will see......
11-12-2005, 01:57 AM
#69
RE: Genesis ARF build, its here.
OK, I have the mount in.. If the 1.60DZ is going to be the Exact same distance from the front engine mounting screw to the spinner backplate then I am going to have to shim the backside of the mount about 3/16". Due to the pre drilled holes in the 1.60DZ AR mount there is no way I can redrill the hyde mount to slide the engine forwards. No big deal, I guess a shim whone hurt other than another ounce in the nose...
Here are the pics.
By the way, for you guys that are in the know. As you can see in the pic I am very slightly off about 1/16" off center. Will it hurt to use the nose ring to pull it into the proper position over that small of a distance?
Here are the pics.
By the way, for you guys that are in the know. As you can see in the pic I am very slightly off about 1/16" off center. Will it hurt to use the nose ring to pull it into the proper position over that small of a distance?
11-12-2005, 06:56 AM
#70
RE: Genesis ARF build, its here.
Mike,
Usually when you need to add axial length, I make end grain balsa washers to shim out the mount. You will need to make sure the washers are fuel proof.
By the way Ron B, Mike W, Jim S and my self got our Genesis basic kits on Thursday. I hope to start a Genesis basic kit build thread.
Here are the weights of my basic Genesis kit. When I compare the weights to my Eclipse, all totals come within 2oz. This suggests I can build the electric Genesis with a target weight of 10#-8oz.
Fuse 21.71oz
Canopy 4.37
Cowl 3.11
Total 29.2oz
Rudder .98oz (no LE installed)
R stab 1.39oz (no LE installed)
L stab 1.32
R wing 7.82oz (no LE installed)
L wing 7.85
wheel pants 1.3
alum gear 4.8 (will use the Bolly CF gear)
PBG 7/8"x30" 2.6 (will use this CF wing tube instead of the aluminum)
Alum. wing tube 4.8
Alum. stab tube 1.19
PBG 7/16" 0.7 (will use the PBG CF tube instead of the aluminum)
Overall the fuselage fiberglass work is very good. I would say the quality is even better than the Eclipse fuse fiberglass work.
I will substitute the aluminum gear with Bolly gear.
Bolly F3A Long CF Gear 4.3oz (only used on the electric version)
Bolly F3A Wide CF Gear 4.3oz (only used on the glow version)
I'll send some pictures this weekend.
Regards,
Steve
Usually when you need to add axial length, I make end grain balsa washers to shim out the mount. You will need to make sure the washers are fuel proof.
By the way Ron B, Mike W, Jim S and my self got our Genesis basic kits on Thursday. I hope to start a Genesis basic kit build thread.
Here are the weights of my basic Genesis kit. When I compare the weights to my Eclipse, all totals come within 2oz. This suggests I can build the electric Genesis with a target weight of 10#-8oz.
Fuse 21.71oz
Canopy 4.37
Cowl 3.11
Total 29.2oz
Rudder .98oz (no LE installed)
R stab 1.39oz (no LE installed)
L stab 1.32
R wing 7.82oz (no LE installed)
L wing 7.85
wheel pants 1.3
alum gear 4.8 (will use the Bolly CF gear)
PBG 7/8"x30" 2.6 (will use this CF wing tube instead of the aluminum)
Alum. wing tube 4.8
Alum. stab tube 1.19
PBG 7/16" 0.7 (will use the PBG CF tube instead of the aluminum)
Overall the fuselage fiberglass work is very good. I would say the quality is even better than the Eclipse fuse fiberglass work.
I will substitute the aluminum gear with Bolly gear.
Bolly F3A Long CF Gear 4.3oz (only used on the electric version)
Bolly F3A Wide CF Gear 4.3oz (only used on the glow version)
I'll send some pictures this weekend.
Regards,
Steve
11-12-2005, 09:10 AM
#72
RE: Genesis ARF build, its here.
John,
We ordered seven Genesis basic kits from Chip Hyde at CHMP. The kits were for four pattern flyers in the Houston area. It took some four months to get delivery. At the very end we ended up having the kits air freight shipped to Houston IAH. This added some extra cost. I don't know the final costs yet, but the estimated cost was only slightly more than a Eclipse basic kit (delivered) when ordered thru Aeroworks or Pattern Proz.
Steve
We ordered seven Genesis basic kits from Chip Hyde at CHMP. The kits were for four pattern flyers in the Houston area. It took some four months to get delivery. At the very end we ended up having the kits air freight shipped to Houston IAH. This added some extra cost. I don't know the final costs yet, but the estimated cost was only slightly more than a Eclipse basic kit (delivered) when ordered thru Aeroworks or Pattern Proz.
Steve
11-12-2005, 02:09 PM
#74
RE: Genesis ARF build, its here.
Landing Gear has been mounted. It fits just right. On mine the mounting block was in the correct orientation. I know Bills was upside down.
I also made the shim for the motor mount and have it ready if I need to shim for the 1.60.,
[sm=RAINFRO.gif]Getting Really close now, Im getting excited.
,Here you go..
I also made the shim for the motor mount and have it ready if I need to shim for the 1.60.,
[sm=RAINFRO.gif]Getting Really close now, Im getting excited.
,Here you go..
11-12-2005, 09:50 PM
#75
RE: Genesis ARF build, its here.
OK I installed the tailwheel and the landing gear
MK Tailwheel -I was able to drill the larger 5/32" hole (to accept the tail wheel axle) without chipping it by starting out with a 1/16" bit and stepping up with about 4 bits. CA had a hardwood block already installed below the tailwheel installation point on mine. Then I predrilled the mounting screw holes and the guidepost hole with the smallest bit I could find. I secured the tailwheel guidepost with medium CA.
Landing Gear- I used the NMP aluminum wheel axles on the main gear. What I did was cut down the thickness of the wheels by pulling the wheel hub apart and grinding it down until it fit within the inside notch on the axle. Then I installed a 3/32" ply block about 1" wide and 1 1/4" tall at the center of the wheel opening so I would have something solid to screw into. Then I drilled a 2-56 hole in the wheel pant through the mounting block about 1/4" from the bottom edge of the wheelpant.
I will complete the assembly by drilling another hole about 5/16" above the main axle screwthrough landing gear and the wheel pant (about where I have the tip of the exacto knife) to accept a 2-56 bolt.
Once I drill the hole, I will remove the axles and wheels andl install a 2-56 blind nut in the hole I just drilled through the ply wood inside the wheel pant to secure it all together. Once the blid nut is in I will reinstall the wheel pant using the new screw and then install the axle and wheel assembly. The second hole will align and secure the wheel pant in place. Also, this will allow me to remove the entire wheel axle assembly without removing the wheel pant, should be a pretty solid install that will not allow the wheel pant to rotate at all.
Oh yeah, also here is the shim for the Hyde mount I made to get the motor far enough out so that the spinner backplate is in the right place. As you can see I couldnt redrill the holes in the mount to accept the engine as they are drilled and the blind nuts are secured in there with mega glue.
MK Tailwheel -I was able to drill the larger 5/32" hole (to accept the tail wheel axle) without chipping it by starting out with a 1/16" bit and stepping up with about 4 bits. CA had a hardwood block already installed below the tailwheel installation point on mine. Then I predrilled the mounting screw holes and the guidepost hole with the smallest bit I could find. I secured the tailwheel guidepost with medium CA.
Landing Gear- I used the NMP aluminum wheel axles on the main gear. What I did was cut down the thickness of the wheels by pulling the wheel hub apart and grinding it down until it fit within the inside notch on the axle. Then I installed a 3/32" ply block about 1" wide and 1 1/4" tall at the center of the wheel opening so I would have something solid to screw into. Then I drilled a 2-56 hole in the wheel pant through the mounting block about 1/4" from the bottom edge of the wheelpant.
I will complete the assembly by drilling another hole about 5/16" above the main axle screwthrough landing gear and the wheel pant (about where I have the tip of the exacto knife) to accept a 2-56 bolt.
Once I drill the hole, I will remove the axles and wheels andl install a 2-56 blind nut in the hole I just drilled through the ply wood inside the wheel pant to secure it all together. Once the blid nut is in I will reinstall the wheel pant using the new screw and then install the axle and wheel assembly. The second hole will align and secure the wheel pant in place. Also, this will allow me to remove the entire wheel axle assembly without removing the wheel pant, should be a pretty solid install that will not allow the wheel pant to rotate at all.
Oh yeah, also here is the shim for the Hyde mount I made to get the motor far enough out so that the spinner backplate is in the right place. As you can see I couldnt redrill the holes in the mount to accept the engine as they are drilled and the blind nuts are secured in there with mega glue.