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Black Magic v2 builder's thread! *Updated*

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Old 07-14-2006, 05:09 PM
  #451
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Default RE: Black Magic v2 builder's thread! *Updated*

Sheeted upper and lower decks today so getting closer, Elevator linkage has'nt arrived yet so i cant assemble the fuselage this weekend which is going to slow me up a bit.

whoever gets to the stage first could they please document going from a balsa fuselage to a gloss coat painted finish, i'm assuming glass coated but pictures speak a thousand words

Ian
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Old 07-18-2006, 06:16 PM
  #452
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Default RE: Black Magic v2 builder's thread!

Mike were are you, I need a V2 before the Nats. prices go up. Can't get a reply from him. He might be covered up in formers.
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Old 07-18-2006, 06:28 PM
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Default RE: Black Magic v2 builder's thread!

Mike is at the Nats. This weekend he might get back with you.

Dave
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Old 07-18-2006, 09:54 PM
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Default RE: Black Magic v2 builder's thread! *Updated*

Yep, he did have pre nats special offers, If you can get there i believe he was taking a few kits with him, you might get lucky
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Old 07-22-2006, 06:27 PM
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Default RE: Black Magic v2 builder's thread! *Updated*

I'm baaaaaaaacccckkkkk!

Well, ok just barely. I got in about 5:00am this morning, drove all last night through the storms.

I'm still going through all of the emails I missed over the last week or so, so that could take a little time to catch up.

I had a great time at the Nats, got 2nd to Brett, and won the 1st Concourse de Elegance prize as well. Thanks for all of the encouragement and support, I'm really overwhelmed right now!

I'll post some impressions elsewhere but I think the idea that "electrics are taking over in pattern" just got dealt a serious blow....pun intended. They are still "all that" in relatively calm air, but mortals had thier hands FULL when the wind came up. Also I finally have reached the point where the OS 140 is lacking, and I'm feeling it....and it's costing me. Although I still believe it's THE engine for the learning classes, but sitting on the bubble going into masters, I think it may need something. I can take it out HERE tomorrow and I'll have power to spare, but in Muncie, in july, IF you get a hot/humid one like we had, that engine had better be within 20 runs of brand new with 25% nitro. Mine were not.

So, I'll be testing electrics, YS DZs, OS 160s, everything I can get my hands on.

Also, just a thing of note, our 2006 masters champion is now the proud owner of my #1 plane. [8D]

I am getting punded with orders, so the lead times are increasing. I ask all of you to bear with me while I fill them, as it could take a couple of weeks.

Again thanks everyone for making the 2006 Nats one of the best times of my life!

-Mike
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Old 07-22-2006, 07:37 PM
  #456
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Default RE: Black Magic v2 builder's thread! *Updated*

Congrats all around Mike!
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Old 07-24-2006, 07:57 AM
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Default RE: Black Magic v2 builder's thread! *Updated*

Mike, what was the response to the fuse jigs?

I'm just kinda curious.

Call, e-mail or post here......If there is a big demand I'll need to get my butt in gear.

Pete
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Old 07-24-2006, 08:19 AM
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Default RE: Black Magic v2 builder's thread! *Updated*

Most were amazed at the size of the thing. It is pretty beefy compared to other jigs. I'll take one out and take pics later.

I love it myself, and plan on replacing my gator jig with 2 of these. That will allow me to build......well, anything!

I'll get in touch with you later today on the details.

-Mike
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Old 07-24-2006, 08:31 AM
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Default RE: Black Magic v2 builder's thread! *Updated*

The ones you took to the NATS are lighter than the one I built for Buddy, and they will last a liifetime. I figure Buddy's kids will be using the jigs I built him.

I'll be around and online all day or call the house tonight.
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Old 07-24-2006, 08:36 AM
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Default RE: Black Magic v2 builder's thread! *Updated*

I know....and that's the initial reaction...."wow these things are BUILT".

I know my gator jig is about to go up for sale [8D]

-Mike
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Old 07-24-2006, 09:16 AM
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Default RE: Black Magic v2 builder's thread! *Updated*

Any Pic's ?
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Old 07-24-2006, 10:01 AM
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Default RE: Black Magic v2 builder's thread! *Updated*


Quote:
ORIGINAL: twtaylor

Any Pic's ?

Later. All of my tables are full........but hopefully later today.

-Mike
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Old 07-24-2006, 10:15 AM
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Default RE: Black Magic v2 builder's thread! *Updated*

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=4386386

This will give an idea of what it is.

The ones Mike took to the NATS have 8 stations and are lighter ply. The strut is also cut down to 40" sections for shipping.
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Old 07-24-2006, 10:17 AM
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Default RE: Black Magic v2 builder's thread! *Updated*

Pete, I'm awake now...call me.

-Mike
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Old 07-25-2006, 06:40 AM
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Default RE: Black Magic v2 builder's thread! *Updated*

Mike,

I've been following your progress with this plane and wanted to congratulate you on your success so far. I've been getting back into pattern flying after years away, (flying a Venus II) and hope to start a 2 meter project soon. I'm very interested in the Black Magic. I've been considering the electric option, but want to know more about the electric "Achilles Heel" you mentioned in the Nats thread.

Dennis

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Old 07-25-2006, 09:18 AM
  #466
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Default RE: Black Magic v2 builder's thread! *Updated*


Quote:
ORIGINAL: dhawks

Mike,

I've been following your progress with this plane and wanted to congratulate you on your success so far. I've been getting back into pattern flying after years away, (flying a Venus II) and hope to start a 2 meter project soon. I'm very interested in the Black Magic. I've been considering the electric option, but want to know more about the electric "Achilles Heel" you mentioned in the Nats thread.

Dennis

Please don't take that the wrong way. All I meant was that for the last couple of years, it was looking like if you wanted to compete at the top levels, you might be at a severe disadvantage if you did not have an electric. In the severe heat, humidity and wind at the Nationals, people were straining thier setups to the point of failure in some cases. And in the high wind, the slower set ups simply didn't have the speed to deal with the extreme wind.

So, they do have thier weaknesses. This is not to say they can't be adjusted or whatever, but if ALL your setup is geared for is slow flight, you're a sitting duck in those conditions. Only the best pilots seemed to really have a handle on it, and even some of those "missed".

So, as a result, a lot of people who were convinced they had to go electric to be competetive are now switching directions and either staying with glow or going back. Personally, I'm going to do both.

So don't let my comments sway you, just do a lot of research and know how to deal with those conditions.

-Mike
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Old 07-25-2006, 11:30 AM
  #467
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Default RE: Black Magic v2 builder's thread! *Updated*

Mike,
Congrats again on the Concours. It was great to see the Black Magic fly. I'm psyched to get mine going now. FYI - I was running my OS 160 on 15% all week with a D.L. 15.75x10 3-blade. Never felt the need to use a 2-blade or bump the nitro. I even got scolded for flying too fast. Then again, I guess it didn't really get windy until Thursday and we were on our way home by then. I've flown this setup in heavy wind though (402 and 403 schedules only) and it doesn't seem to have any problems with power. That motor with a Mueller header / Perry VP-30 and Aeroslave pipe is super reliable. Only drawback is the weight but if you can live with that, you might want to give one a try.

John Pavlick
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Old 07-25-2006, 12:25 PM
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Default RE: Black Magic v2 builder's thread! *Updated*

Only the 160s seemed to have enough power in that mess. I was sick at the lack of power. I tried just about everything, and it just wasn't there. I have since learned a few things as to why some seemed fine and most others seemed to be straining. It seems the ticket was a NEW engine, 25% nitro, propped for power. I tried a power prop but the down lines were just too fast for my liking and threw my timing off. So, I just gritted my teeth and flew.

Also of note, Mike Wingo was running a rebuilt OS in his Eclipse, and had power to spare. After further review, it seems the engines he's running are the REALLY old ones (before the EFI) with a new pump and carb. I'm not sure what the difference is/was, but it's real.

I am beginning to wonder if the quality is slipping on the 140s. It could just be me and the way I'm flying vs a couple years ago. But I'm betting I can go fly right now and I'll have plenty of power. The jury is still out for me.

-Mike
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Old 07-25-2006, 01:17 PM
  #469
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Default RE: Black Magic v2 builder's thread! *Updated*

For us lesser mortals there is no doubt about it, when the wind starts blowing we need 2 things; weight & speed. It's really easy to misinterpret the situation and believe whats needed is more power. The fact is, we ussally have far more power than we actually require anyway, but we've become accustomed to flying these new, slow motion, delicate areal ballets without any drama and we proped and practiced throttle management accordingly. Whats really needed under adverse conditions is add weight for momentum, gain plenty of speed, use an on/off throttle control and get out there a drive a big powerfull pattern like it was done some years ago.

With regards to the OS 1.60, the pro pilots here in Europe have been plugging it as the alround best pattern motor since it's introduction!
Of course they can't use it and because of that folk don't believe it's ain't useful! Others know differently and benifit accordingly. Mine you, I don't really believe in the "If I only had differnt engine, or a different prop or a different plane I'd score better" theory... least not anymore. It's practice and talent period.

With regards to widebodies, again this is something the pros' have been advising against except for the highest levels. The reasons for this are simple, the lastest designs are designed specifically to fly the F programs in the lastest style. That means they are far from ideal for flying the beginer, through to intermediate classes, possibly even further. As they say, whats needed for that is a 10year old design, wing front, long body to the tail thus built in auto pilot. Again they're completely correct.

I don't think many people believe electric is the way to go, certainly not at the moment. Apart from the price and the enormous technical learning curve, they demand a completely different flying style. Even some of the best pilots in the world all haven't managed to make that transission yet. It was rumoured that at the last WC some pilots started with electric and finished with IC powered planes. If the pros' are undecided, thats good enough for many to stay away.

Unfortunately like many things, it's the amatures that actually drive the market. Try and buy a 1.60DZ... 95% are strapped to the front of some crazy ARF Extra and the owner hovering around the engine forum asking strange questions about his new engine that doesn't work. Point is, Joe public they want the best stuff, the stuff the pro's are using. Whats crazy about the situation is thats exactly the stuff the pros ain't recommending!
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Old 07-25-2006, 02:08 PM
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Default RE: Black Magic v2 builder's thread! *Updated*

OS 160---fit an old hanno, or rfp61, or 140, pump in the backplate, stick an rfp butterfly carb in the front(there's just enough metal in the spigot to tap it M 3.5 or M4), shim the head to 35-40 thou, use an OS or YS fourstroke plug.
Run it on an aeroslave or ES pipe setup, with 10-15 nitro, and 15-18% synthetic oil, and a stainless rear bearing.
After that it's fit, fly, and forget.
I've flown F3A comps since turnaround started, mostly FAI, and it's the easiest, most consistent, and reliable, engine imaginable.
Power-wise, it's on a par with the YS160 on 30 nitro, and in a wood/foam model like your wonderful BM creation, it sounds nice too.
I have to admit that the YS 160 sounds nicer in the modern composite fuses though.
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Old 07-25-2006, 02:15 PM
  #471
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Default RE: Black Magic v2 builder's thread! *Updated*

Thanks for the info Mike, I guess the edges of the envelope are still being tested by the pros. Electric is cool tech and I want to see it become more mainstream. Hopefully we will see some "middle of the road" setups emerge from competitions like this.
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Old 07-25-2006, 03:03 PM
  #472
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Default RE: Black Magic v2 builder's thread! *Updated*

I was at the FAI line most of the time when not flying and the Hacker and Pletty setups were good but the AXI powered planes did very well with the conditions and on Thursday during the unknowns Dan Landis showed how well the Steve Neu motor did in the wind running a 3 blade carbon prop and the Tanic Lipo packs and all temps where in the norm, and had plenty to power to spare..


Just my 2 cents.

Scott Anderson
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Old 07-25-2006, 03:12 PM
  #473
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Default RE: Black Magic v2 builder's thread! *Updated*

Quote:
ORIGINAL: PatternPilot

I was at the FAI line most of the time when not flying and the Hacker and Pletty setups were good but the AXI powered planes did very well with the conditions and on Thursday during the unknowns Dan Landis showed how well the Steve Neu motor did in the wind running a 3 blade carbon prop and the Tanic Lipo packs and all temps where in the norm, and had plenty to power to spare..


Just my 2 cents.

Scott Anderson
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Team Tanicpacks.com
Well now, the secret of success. Everyone run out and buy AXI motors and especially Tanic Lipos.... which I suppose was not your intention at all.
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Old 07-25-2006, 03:20 PM
  #474
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Default RE: Black Magic v2 builder's thread! *Updated*

Guys, let's not turn this thread into a discussion over electrics? It's already hard to wade through for someone actually building this plane....

Sorry, but sometimes a subject like this one can explode.

Just asking a favor.

-Mike
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Old 07-25-2006, 04:41 PM
  #475
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Default RE: Black Magic v2 builder's thread! *Updated*

Good point, In an attempt to get back on track :

MH, could you post me some pics of the fin, My fuselage is complete except for the fin mounting its sheeted but i'm not sure where to cut (if its on the wing plan this is at the wing builders still)
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