bokuda

My Feedback: (7)

Here's the link to laser lizards. Looks like they're still in business:

http://www.laserlizard.com/right.html

PatternPilot

My Feedback: (58)

Dean,

I called and left voice mail.. Will try later today or is there another number ?

Scott Anderson
Performance Model Aviation
Team Tanicpacks.com

troyhm

Hi Dean

I have found the same thing with a laser cutter here, the wattage of the laser seems to be to high for cutting the balsawood and it just burns, thats what I got told anyway.

Dean if you have one a cad package is easy to get the excat right taper, just get the start former correct the the end former and draw a straight line between the two the place the other formers at the correct position and the correct size can be easily measured on the screen

Thanks

Troy

_shadow_

Mike,

I am getting into pattern and been reading / studying the cost of going up the ladder and its not cheap, especially the top end composite planes. Ultimately I would be getting a top end plane and I was thinking of a kit built 2M pattern plane that can compete with the best, and I found this thread. However, your design is for glow and electric powerplants, I am interested in going gas or more specifically the ZDZ40RE+ ES Pipe combo. What modifications are needed to convert to gas? and still keep the wing loading? Thanks!!

regards
Marcus

MHester

My Feedback: (1)

It's interesting that you should mention that.

When I designed this plane, I had the ZDZ 40 in mind. That's why untrimmed, the cowl is so voluminous.

ZDZ is about to release an F3A version of thier RE40. It's fairly light and will turn the same size propellors as the electrics. Different of course, but somewhere closer to the ball park than current glow engines. I'll tell you this: when they release it, my next one is going to be done like that.

As for what modifications, the wing would have to be moved forward slightly and perhaps using 2 servos in the tail to compensate for balance. With that engine, weight should not be an issue with this plane; it should be about 10.5 lbs built properly. I wouldn't do any honeycombing though, and I'd run an antivibration mount and pay close attention.

So to make a long answer short, I'd say not much of anything would have to be changed IF you run the new ZDZ. Availability is late spring/early summer so I hear. I am going to preorder one myself.

-Mike

_shadow_

Mike,

Thanks for the fast response...I'll be your customer as soon as I get the new engine !!! Will keep this thread in my favourites!! You www site say only ship to USA for the short kits....will you consider shipping to Malaysia? I can scratch build..and not too much of an ARF fan unless its a really good one...but cant do foam wings well at all!!.

Thanks again.

regards
Marcus

MHester

My Feedback: (1)

Yes I'll ship to Malaysia. it would only cost about $60 for the plans and composites. The cores take a HUGE box, and there's a large potential for shipping damage. it could cost a lot, then again it may not. My guess is that I might be able to ship the whole package overseas, cores and all, for about $100. That's really not TOO bad considering the local shipping on a large plane is that much or more. If you can't cut foam, it would cost you more than that to have these cores cut anyway. And so far, I haven't found anyone else that can cut these turtle decks around here

I really hope I'll have a full kit available some time in the not so distant future.

Back to the laser cutting for a second.....CNC cutting is the way to go. Nothing on this particular plane can't be cut by hand. there's nothing difficult about them really. It takes about an hour to cut all of the parts for the fuse. The root ribs take a little more, and that's really all there is to it.

I tried to make it as simple as possible, but looking at it from the start, I suppose it could be intimidating. but if ya just dive in and start building, it's amazing how easy it really is. Oh sure you may make some mistakes here and there, but then you learn. Once you can build one of these, you're no longer at the mercy of the $3000 airframe vendors. they're nice and worth it, but why if you don't have to?

-Mike

handglider

My Feedback: (23)

Hi Troy,

take a look at this....

it's easy to do it in illustrator too, they are both vector drawing programs and illustrator is just as accurate.

Since I have my turtle decks sheeted I have adjusted these widths to match the taper of the turtle decks that Mike is supplying. Granted I am making the fuselage 1 mm wider to allow for the rounding after sanding that Mike is reffering to in that part of this thread. My sheeted TD cores match the profiles on the plans. My method of hand cutting and my jig set up requires accurate widths, without "sanding to fit"... of course you have to be able to slice a hair in half with a #11 blade to really be able to use my method....

since I only tack glued my formers I am going to cut these widths tonight and replace - remeasure, etc....

I am only talking about a few mm here and there, but since I am a nut about stuff like this, all this is going to pay off big, as I am building about 5 fuses right now once I get this perfected.

well, I am having fun.... and my quest goes on.....

so how is your cad drawings coming, can't wait to see them....

dean

_shadow_

Mike,

Maybe I need to learn to cut foam!! Anyway, we'll see how it goes when the time comes. As for cutting out the parts, I got no problems!!

Need some input from you on the trimming part of the back magic... I have been doing some reading and all trim issues are point to these facts,

1. Fly leve without up-ele trim
2. KE without any mixes, ele / rud
3. Upline with out too much right thrust
4. Downline without ele at idle mix

Does the black magic fit the above requirements? Or is it necessary to use computer mixes as solutions or is it fitted with adjustable wing / stabs?

Thanks.

regards

MHester

My Feedback: (1)

1. Fly level without up-ele trim
-actually I have a bit of down in the prototype, but I am flying it a bit tail heavy. This aggrivates condition #2 a bit.

2. KE without any mixes, ele / rud
-prototype has some due to lack of fin chord/area above stab, lack of sub fin, and aft cg. V2 should have very little if any.

3. Upline with out too much right thrust
-Perfect.

4. Downline without ele at idle mix
-DEAD perfect.

It has adjustable wings and stabs, so you can trim it to fly any way you like.

-Mike

coloradoz

My Feedback: (38)

Enjoying this thread, I hope it continues through to the finish! Mike did you take the formers .pdf off the website?

MHester

My Feedback: (1)

Those aren't "my" formers, they're on Dean Funk's site. They are his Black magic former files. And I haven't checked lately, I'm covered in paint and monokote.

Don't worry, expect a massive update in a week or so as these new V2s are finished.

-Mike

MHester

My Feedback: (1)

And here is a sneak peek. Blurry, not polished and canopy not cleared, but an idea of what's coming soon.

-Mike

handglider

My Feedback: (23)

Hey Coloradoz,

the link to the formers that I have drawn is

http://www.precisionaerobaticstructu...v2_formers.pdf -

I took down the first link I post because I modified these slightly to better suit my building method.

these are not Mikes official formers, but vectors I created that work with my own jig system. Print your self out a set and compare and adjust to suit your own building preferences.....

dean

troyhm

Hi Dean\Mike

Ok Ilustrator can also draw vector components etc. But the big difference is with the cad package I create a full 3d model then go and measure the components off there and compare back to the plans. If there really really close I leave it and move onto the next part. With the model also as long as you get the exact locations of the former you just take that cross section and you have the former. Then when it comes to other pieces like the turtle decks etc you just create another part and add it to the model around the centre line and it quickly tells you if the measurements are off or correct.

I did all thes with the quest that is half finished at the moment and yes it took close to 2 months, I am slow at this 3dmodeling but all the pieces cut out perfect and so far have fitted exactly the only errors I have had have been human cutting errors namely me.

The quest is currently at the laser cutters gettting two full test sets cut out and the mold to the composites are nearly complete but this is the Black Magic forum I better stop now

Dean I will try your formers a little later just against mine and I will make a simple model from your and put my turtle deck part on top of yours and see what happens

Mikke a quick one for you, can you tell me the angle turtle deck facing makes with the fuse, its hard to guess and test without a physical canopy to make sure

Thanks



Troy

handglider

My Feedback: (23)

Troy,

I will enjoy seeing the 3d model - so hurry up! - just kidding..... : )

Can you create 3d models for flight sim programs? and can you export 3d walk around quicktime movies..... That would be really cool to have up on Mikes website.

yea, I am stuck doing 3d the hard way - cutting balsa....

what would be a good entry level 3d program that dosen't cost 4k?

cheers, dean

troyhm

Dean

The 3d model at the moment is just a wire frame. No surfaces have material or lighting or hit hasnt been rendered yet.
Its not much good to anyone at the moment except me, if you dont have solidwoks it wont even open and all the 3d stuff doesnt export to well to a jpg. I might do this later.

Anyway time for another coat of wax on my molds etc, I hate waxing lol

Troy

rcpattern

My Feedback: (45)

I can't wait to get mine going...

Arch

handglider

My Feedback: (23)

Hi All,

Really happy with the results.... the perfect taper.....

3d modeling at it's best! : )

heck this is better than Ambien, I'll be able to sleep now.....

cheers, dean

troyhm

Hey Dean

Looking great is it really early over there or rteally late ???


Troy

handglider

My Feedback: (23)

Hi All,

I am looking for a 3d cad program that will work on either PC or Mac and dosen't cost me 4K. Does anyone have any suggestions out there. I sent and email to the regional solidworks reseller, but I think that's going to be way way to expensive..... (like 4k is what I am hearing...)

It's not that I need another profession, but I have done a good bit of old fashion drawing board drafting and 2d cad back in school.

is anone else doing 3d cad out there that might be able to point me in a cost effective direction.

thanks, dean

handglider

My Feedback: (23)

HI Troy,

it's really early here, when I was visiting your country last year this is the time I would call my wife. I couldn't sleep last night and got up early to cut wood and glue...

I am a nut.

dean

troyhm

Dean

It just hit 12.30 here just about finished for the night have managed to get my mols waxed for a layup tomorrow night. Started messing around with my black magic former templates and turtle deck and stuff, sort off created a mock setup. Then also finishing drawing up the shinden plans as well. What it called multi tasking LOL

I just sent you a PM as well

Troy

handglider

My Feedback: (23)

Hi Troy,

Yea that is how I remember the time difference, I would call my wife around 10 pm ozzie time and it was like 6 am here in Atlanta, Ga... I really miss being in your awesome country this year. I spent 2 months down under competing in the Hang Gliding World Championships on the US National Hang Gliding Team, I finished in the middle of the pack but it was the most amzing experience of my life. I flew at Hay, NSW and Deniliquin, NSW and Bright, Victoria. I got to fly my hang glider off 6,000 ft. Buffalo Mtn, that was incedible. I had over 30 flights and flew over 1,500 miles of total distance. I really enjoyed myself.... I consider myself very lucky to be able to do some of the things I have done in my life....

I never ate more beets, never drank better beer, never saw the most awesome beaches or mountains, never meet nicer people, I even tried that veggie spread - oh I forget what you all call it- that black stuff you guys put on toast at breakfast..... I hope to go back next January.... I spent a week in Melbourne and two weeks in Sydney.... The rest of the time was spent in the outback or in the Blue Mtns.... I really like your city and would consider moving there in a flash.

...

I am now looking at f4 - I am thinking a shaving off maybe 2 mm in width just to make the forward fuse taper really smoothhhh into f5, my f5 to tail block taper is perfectly flat and looks awesome, I can lay the side of the fuse flat on my building table, it freaking rocks and looks sexy as hell...

take a look at my recent formers and my top view drawings. what I was doing is comparing Mikes turtle decks, to his templates, to my templates... what I am trying to do is be able to create all my fuse parts without any "sanding to fit"....

Once we get things perfect, I am going to send my drawings to my new buddy Scott to cut a set on his cnc table.... This should cut down the time required for basic fusebox framing by a large margin.

get some rest and let me know...

cheers mate!

dean

_shadow_

Thanks for the response...glad to know these facts. I am eager than ever...but gotta get the engine first before anything else...

Mike, with 2007 rules changing a bit, ie the weight limitation being removed, I am guessing that more people will be going the 'gas' path...hopefully you are there ahead of the others.

Regards
Marcus