nxtdoor

My Feedback: (10)

It's really a shame that Hobbico doesn't care about this. I started using monokote when it was first introduced (yes that long ago). I loved it. Worked great and was shiney.I won't even consider it now. The last few planes I did with it I needed physical therapy afterward, no lie!

I don't really like UC, but it sticks and shrinks!

I actually started painting again to get a good finish.

Jeff

tschmidt

My Feedback: (1)

I must have gotten lucky!! I just covered a set of wings with new rolls of orange, white, and insignia blue and everything was just as good as ever. Stuck good and easy to work with. No negative issues at all...

Todd Schmidt

narpets

Give it a year or so, and it will start shattering

stonyZ

hi with all the greif eneryone is having with monokote i wonder what faye stilley thinks of the stuff,may be he's in therapy........haven't seen any new covering books by him in a while

Dizzyflyer

Well I see that this is an old thread, but I just stumbled on it.
I've been in the hobby for about 22 years and over the past 5 I have been flying ARF Electrics since I haven't had a lot of time for building. I went to a jet event and caught the bug again and I decided to build two of my favorite "Sunday Flyers".....a GP Super Sportster 60 and a GP Trainer 40 (The plane I learned on 22 years ago). I have about 20 kits, 6 scratch builds, and about 10 ARFs under my belt, so I can do a decent covering job. I decided to cover the Trainer 40 in White. I chose Monokote, because that is what I have used with great success in the past......

Until now. First the stuff wouldn't tack well. Once I did get it tacked down, I couldn't shrink it. I held the gun close and finally ended up burning a hole in it. Tried a 2nd roll. Same deal. Sent a note to Top Flite. No response. I was finally able to get all the monokote goo off the wing and ailerons (you know....the stuff that gets left behind when the color peels away from the plastic....yeah..that stuff).

Anyway...I just covered the whole wing in Ultracoat. It looks terrific. I had an Ultrastick ARF that was covered in Ultracoat....no problems with bubbling or wrinkling. I am hoping for the same on my kit. I was sure to pull it real tight before shrinking...so that usually helps.

Hate to say it, but Monokote may have lost a customer in me too. It used to be the best, but now it seems they have indeed changed something. The two rolls are totally worthless. I gave some samples to my local hobby shop for them to test. They had the same issues. THey all exclusively carry monokote, but they said they would start offering competing products in their shops. I do hope that Top Flite will snap out of it. They do have the best colors and at one point they had the best product.

What a shame.
Robert

Dave Harmon

Robert....you may have got old stock.
I'm pretty sure they will replace it if you will send it in. I know they have for other folks who had trouble.

RCPAUL

My Feedback: (1)

ultracote and oracover are in the same class of product but not exactly the same product.
I have had rolls of Ultrakote which had Oracover (Orakote?) stamped along the edge.

Paul

SpeedBoy

Wait wait wait ...... are you saying that Monokote still has the same problem than a couple years ago ???

If this is true I really want be aware of this as I'm planning to buy 4 or 5 rolls of MK and I dont want to waste my money.

Robert I think would be good if you could say when you bought those rolls that you used this time just to have a reference .


Someone else with the same problem than Robert ???

ww2birds

My Feedback: (14)

Yes, I have had the same problems. Did a Reaction 54 Jet a year ago and a Kwik Fli recently. Limited "tacking" ability, poor shrinking, hard to compound, pretty miserable experience. I was wondering if I had lost my touch... I used to be pretty good with the stuff ... till I had to use some old leftover material from 3-4 years ago to finish the Kwik Fli. That was what convinced me .. it is clearly a different material (or at least a different formulation) that had none of the problems of the newer stock. the KF materials were bought from Tower in the last few months, the R54 material about a year ago.

I brought the KF in for our club meeting and mentioned the problems and had several tell me they had the same experiences.

Oh, and as a nice "bonus" its the gift that keeps on giving .. it gets wrinkly on hot and cold days and requires reshrinking. Miserable...

I am done with Monokote. I had used some Ultracote in the past, found that it shrunk better, and especially compounds better, but did not think the seams stuck as well as MK.

Presumably this is the airplane dieties revenge for me cheaping out and using MK vs. a proper finish like fabric or glass cloth!

Dave

SpeedBoy

Mmmm what a shame [].... I always have used Monokote I think is time to test another brand .

Anyway if someone has had good results "recently" would be goog hear it.

Thanks for the input ww2birds.

EHFAI

It appears that the current batch of MK is back to "normal". (Just covered a couple of pattern planes.) That being said - take a good look at the stuff before trying to use it, if there are little "fish-eyes" visible or if the backing film falls off return for a different roll. I tried to use some old stock (mine) on the bottom of surfaces and was quickly frustrated even though the material "looked" OK before application - just impossible to work with. Ripped the stuff off and covered the parts without any problems using a new roll.

flywilly

My Feedback: (121)

Glad to hear that monokote is 'back to normal'. I have encountered what I not so affectionately refer to as 'crappykote'. The 2 major problems seem to be: 1) the pigment/adhesive layer delaminates from the mylar making it very difficult to get the monokote to stick to anything; 2) the amount of pigment present is inadequate and results in more of a translucent finish than an opaque finish. I have only encountered this problem with white monokote, but maybe I've just been lucky. I will try some new monokote this winter - from Tower; so there shouldn't be any issue with 'old' stock.
Are monokote and ultracote compatible? I guess the real issue would be application temperature and I've never used UC. Just curious (just in case...)
-Will B.

bullseye000

I know this is an old thread but I realized something today and felt compelled to share it. I have been using Monokote for many many years and have never had one issue. I've covered quite a few planes and used a lot of different colors. Over the years I've amassed a decent collection of the stuff. Some colors I consider base colors I've bought 25 foot rolls, so I have plenty to compare.

Over the last few weeks I have been covering a recent project. It's about 50/50 red and white and I also covered the bottom of the wing and stab with a large black and white checkerboard pattern. I realized early on I wouldn't have enough whit and red to finish so I made a trip the hobby shop and bought a couple of more rolls. Not really giving it any thought I grabbed the new rolls and opened them, cut my peices and ironed my 2 colors at the overlap. This is where the fight began. The adhesive doesn't really grab without very high heat. When I applied it to my fuse I tacked all the way around the edges. I pulled on that stuff like a gorilla to get the wrinles out. Once I applied the heat from a heat gun the stuff relaxed and made some nice big wrinkle that I worked for hours to get out. I finally got the bottom and sides done and when it came time to cover the top of the fuse I went digging in my scrap box for a small piece of red. I found a piece about 8" wide and a foot long. Boom Boom the stuff went on great and shrunk beautifully. It was then that I realized the stuff felt different. Aside from the adhesive being different the film is different also. The old Monokote was from a roll I bought about 6 or 7 years ago. The film feels kind of like a candy wrapper from a peice of hard candy. When I crumbled it you can hear a definate crunch. On the new roll however the film has a softer feel even when I crumple it. I hope my description makes sense. On a whim I pulled out a micrometer and the new Monokote was thicker than the old. I also verified this with some other colors both new and old.

A couple of months I covered a foam wing with Econokote and it went on like a dream. There is definatley something different with SuperMonokote both in the adhesive and the film. I can't buy the epa regulation story because Econokote doesn't seem to be suffering the same fate, at least the stuff I bought recently.

It's a shame really because I really liked Monokote in the past and always felt it matched my covering technique better than UltraCote. I guess I'll have to work with UltraCote more because the frustration just isn't worth it.

donnyman

just read through this thread..............I'll be d.. I thought it was me ....my ultimate was ruined.... I am PO'd No more monokote for me or my trainees/friends

petec

My Feedback: (58)

Yeah, I went ultracote and didn't look back.

RogerParrett

Just read this thread as well... WOW, something clicked.

I built a kit about 20 years ago. I was getting into the hobby, no ARFs around, so I built an AeroStar 40. Did the monokote thing and I didn't have any problems. Maybe not the prettiest plane (covering-wise) on the field, but respectable given my lack of experience.

Fast forward to this past January. I'd been out of the hobby for a while, and decided to build again. A 40 sized GP Tracer. Monokote. After attempting to cover the wing, I ripped it off in disgust. No problems sticking, but the stuff would not shrink (hardly). I went back to the LHS and told them of my problems... never thinking it was MK, but I can assure you that I didn't have THIS much trouble 20 years ago, otherwise I would not have attempted this again.

The LHS guy told me to tack the shorter edge, STRETCH it (hard) to the other side, tack it, and then work your way around it, stretching and tacking, and then finally hitting it with the heat gun. MUCH better results this time.

From my very limited experience, I'd have to say that MK doesn't seem to shrink as much (any? lol) as it used to. Maybe for someone starting out, and learning the "right way", they'd do much better not knowing the difference.

Best... Roger

J.Paul Saure

Same thing over here... ....old rolls go like magic. Some newer ones (white) have to be pre-tacked with a lot of tension.

I wonder if these http://www.hobbycity.com/hobbycity/s...5&ParentCat=58
are produced "somewhere" there's no EPA or whatsoever (using good nice strong solvents, lead based pigments, etcetc)....
Any experiences around here?


Saludos,
Paul

patternflyer1

My Feedback: (11)

The glutten for punishment that I am, I just decided to cover my new E-motion pattern plane in Monokote. What was I thinking? After posting my bad experiences before in this thread, I see that the monokote hasn't improved. All of the 4 new rolls won't stick. They were applied at the recommended heat setting, with the recommended iron. Each color stuck down good, and after 2 minutes they came loose in many areas. Not sure what to do now as I just bought $400 worth of PPG Paint from Radio South for the fuses. I may leave it on for this season, and paint the wings and stabs in the off season.

Can't believe this stuff is still being sold. Even more, I can't believe I bought it again.. Shame on me.. lol

Dave Harmon

I didn't trust MK again so I used Ultra Koat and had the local PPG store match the colors. They did an outstanding job.
You might want to consider using UK and take that paint to a PPG store near you and see if they can doctor it up to match the UK.
There is just no way in hell I would ever use MK again....but I appreciate what you said about the $400....HEH....oh well, the paint is good stuff, hopefully you can rescue it and use it with the UK.

Best

Dave

raceskier

My Feedback: (1)

I have been away from building larger open structure plane for a while. I have been building small electrics and covering with Solarfilm etc. I just started covering a built up sailplane with open bays. I have a number of rolls of 5 year+ old TX Yellow Monokote. I started with the yellow as it was the lightest color I'm using. It behaved as I remember and went on flawlessly. Next step was the adjacent bays, to be covered with a brand new roll of TX Red recently purchased on line. Night and day difference. IT is most definitely NOT the same product. Not even remotely similar application properties. I removed and re-tried several times. I give up. Now I have to clean the old stuff off. I thought it might be just me, but apparently this problem is endemic. I will be sending a sample off to Top Flite for comments and will relay any response.

There was a statement that Hobbico had been forced by EPA regs to change formulas. That could effect the adhesive and pigment, but the film is (was?) I believe a thermoplastic polyester. That is the item that appears to have changed. I know from working in the satellite business that, that product, for the rest of the community of users, is unchanged.

Don't forget that the in-flight space shuttle failure ultimately was traced back to changes in the foam insulation applied to the tank struts. Why was it changed? You guessed it, reformulation of the foam to comply with EPA requirements: http://brian.carnell.com/articles/20...-space-shuttle

NJRCFLYER2

My Feedback: (42)

PPG paints are great, but if you want to reduce the cost of applying a paint finish, you may want to consider Klass Kote epoxy paints.

patternflyer1

My Feedback: (11)

Ed, I thought it was in Mike M's article for next month so I asked him about the Klass Kote. He didn't know about it. But it is in yours. I found it after I already ordered. The only problem I have with it is the dry time. It sounds good though.
The paint isn't my issue. It's the monokote which I am no so unhappy with that I didn't finish the top of the other wing, tops of the stabs or rudder today.
My wing that is fully covered, and the bottom of the other wing and stab, now look like my Element did after I took it out of the plastic. Trying to reheat it to shrink is giving it gas bubbles. I'm thinking of tearing it all off.

Thanks!!

Chris

NJRCFLYER2

My Feedback: (42)

Hi Chris. True, the Klass Kote takes longer to cure than PPG Concept or Omni, but it is very durable when hardened. It's somewhat safer to use than PPG paints for the average guy like me.

On the Monokote quality, man, don't even get me started. I gave up on it for anything that requires buying new stock. My (now deceased) Integral had Monokote covered wings, only because I had stock from about 7 or 8 years ago which was still reasonably good. However, after the experience I had doing a 40% Extra for a friend about 3 or 4 years ago, I've sworn off buying any more of it. I literally had Monokote from 4 different hobby shops in NJ and New Hampshire, some of it bought over a period of several months, and it was all unacceptable. Not even worth going into the details again. The end of an era I guess.