patternflyer1

My Feedback: (11)

It really is easy to do. Didn't take too long. I recommend checking your incidences before you fly. If they are off like mine you may end up with strange trimming issues.

Good luck.

Chris

swlarcham

My Feedback: (1)

>It really is easy to do. Didn't take too long. I recommend checking your incidences before you fly. If they are off like mine you may >end up with strange trimming issues.

Chris
Were you aiming this to me?
If so I'll take your advice and add the adjusters first.
You're right it doesn't look hard at all. Especially after seeing Eric's advice.

Thanks
Eddie

patternflyer1

My Feedback: (11)

Yes.
I was just saying that my method didn't take to long to make the existing holes larger so that incidence can be adjusted.
I don't think the adjusters are needed. More work than is necessary to complete the same task.
Eric somewhere in this thread mentioned doing what I did also if I remember correctly.

Don't get me wrong, i love the adjusters. Just don't think it's necessary on this plane. But, I could be wrong..

Good luck,

Chris

swlarcham

My Feedback: (1)

Finally have my Evolution flying with the Plett 30-10 Evo.
Just wanted to show it off.

Eddie

4u2nv-RCU

My Feedback: (28)

Very nice Eddie!! Seems you're doing things right!! Will we see you in Temple? Sure hope so!! Its starting to feel like flying season!!!

swlarcham

My Feedback: (1)

Thanks John,
So far E-power is fun.

If at all possible , I will be there. I'm scheduling to try and be off work, but you know how that goes for me.

Eddie

KGSS28

Please give us a flight report . I have 10 flights on mine. Just trying to get it in trim . Impressive so far, report in several days.

Thanks Kirk

Pattern_is_Fun

Where is Tony F's Evo? thought he had one??

sc

swlarcham

My Feedback: (1)

Kirk
Here's my first impression. I've only gotten 4 flights so far and this is my 1st electric, so learning the throttle is fun

My setup is : I think I'll cal it the "TresEvo"
UltraRC " Evolution"
Motor Plett 30-10"EVO" / Schultz 32.80KA ESC (with brake)
Batteries FlightPower 5s2p 5000 " Evo" x2 for 10s ( not the "new" FP batteries) 1st prop tried 20X12 APC turned 6300rpm pulling 77amps putting out 2900watts. I flew for 6minutes and put 3500mah back in on charge Next I tried the 21x13W. More power than needed and more current drain therefore more heat. I want to try a 22X12 or 22x10

8411SA on rudder
9411sa on each aileron
3421 in each stab
2s 800mah rx pack and a radiosouth 5.6vregulator

Estimated weight is 10#6ounces. With the FP 5s2p5000 batteries I am at 10#14ozAUW. I have 1 new FP pack and it drops my weight almost 6 ounces. But I got a great deal on 2 sets of the 5s2p packs SO I'm gonna use them.

First 6 minute flight in a breeze went well. For my first flight I was purposely nose heavy, will adjust. Rolls seem axial. Vertical seemed to pull to canopy and KE did also -but that could be me, 1st flight nerves and all.
Stall was gentle with the left wing finally dropping(again hard to judge in the wind)
Landing was a non-event. I have to tweak the throttle curve -too much stick movement to get rpm response, but again 1st flight on my 1st electric -I had no clue how to set it up. I have read Chad Northeast's recommendations BUT he's an FU guy and I'm JR guy. :-)
But the plane slows easily and will crawl in without dropping a wing, don't ask me how I know-still learning the throttle curve.

2nd flight I moved the batteries back a little and now the CG is nice -very slight push inverted and roll on 45 upline it doesn't drop the nose but ever so slightly.
With this motor and props I've tried so far, I can fly faster than I'd ever want - so power is not an issue.
Up lines are constant speed. DOwnlines will be nice once I get the brake working(throttle curve again)

So far I am happy. Had planned on more flights today BUT it is raining here.[:@]

Eddie

message edited to add info after relocating battery to adjust CG

MTK

Eddie, with the more aft CG the knife edge should have cleaned up....also the pull to canopy on verticals should have cleaned up as well. At 2900 watts you are pretty much same as fuel powered set-up in output... Is this the Evo that's 400 bucks??

MattK

swlarcham

My Feedback: (1)

I think so too. I haven't had a flight without stronger winds than I care to fly in so I'll need more trim flights to tell for sure. But a new plane talked me into flying anyway - And it handled it wonderfully.

Yep !! I choked on the price for awhile but after watching Nat's Plett25-13 for 2 years I just couldn't go any other direction And I don't regret it.

I do know this -it is stronger than my YS140Sport by a lot. I haven't flown anything IC larger than that -so that's all I'm gonna say. I didn't put the wattmeter on it with the 21x13W and I should've as it was way stronger. -More than I'll ever need so why strain batteries and heat up the motor if I don't need to.

BTW Matt - do you still sell the coated kevlar pull-pull cord. If so I'd like to get some more.
Good to type with you.

Eddie

MTK

Eddie,

I gave the wrong impression....I should have said that at 2900W, the output is about similar to the properly set-up 140/145 2 stroke output. The YS 140 sport is relatively anemic in comparison. The YS 160 is right there.

I still have a small supply of the K-Kord teflon covered kevlar but I haven't found it yet. Still unpacking.... a year and half later. I am going trough some boxes in the garage this weekend so if I find the stock, I'll let you know.

Do you know if the model is still available? I just can't seem to find time to get going on my new design so something for the interim could be good

Matt

swlarcham

My Feedback: (1)

If you're talking about the Evolution, I haven't talked with ultr RC but their ads say in stock.
I purhcased a replacement canopy and an extra set of landing gear struts, so I know parts are available.

Don't worry about the wording of this. I only have the YS140sport to compare to and I am not trying to make a comparison statement anyway. All I know so far is this Plett has all I could ask for and if I'd prop it more agressively it has more than I know how to use.

If you locate the Kev-Kord and do have some extra then I'd love to get somemore. Thanks
Eddie

KGSS28

Thanks Eddie : I have 10 flights on mine and found the same little things as you. This plane flies really well for what it cost and there have been some bigger names than me make the same comment.

My setup. Webra 145 red head with Bolly CF pipe 17x12 APC, 15% Powermaster ,produces loads of power .
Weight is 10 lbs 4 oz ready to fly . JR 9303 all digital DS 821 servos Li Ion battery pack all assembly per instructions even the gear except that I cut off 3 inches.

I also have a slight amount of L Ail trim in and may need slight incidence adjustment . I have not flown again yet. You are right landing is great ,I mean this thing will walk in and is just as gentle as anything I have ever flown I dont think it would tip stall .

How did you find the thrust to be in the vertical line ? Mine is pullind to the left more than I want to mix out so I will add some shims to get a little more right in.

Thats all hope to fly more this week

Kirk

rgreen24

My Feedback: (6)

3500 Mah seems a little high for a 6 minute flight? Where you realy pushing the motor?

swlarcham

My Feedback: (1)

rgreen
Truthfully , It is a combination of things.
1. It was quite windy and a new plane + the nerves of my 1st electric - so yes I was flyer harder than necessary, didn't let it slow down and the throttle curve was not set properly so ALL my throttle was between 1/2 and full. This made any throttle management difficult. I have since gotten some help on setting up the Schultze ESC throttle curve and yesterday I flew 10 minutes on 4300mah.

2. The 6 minute time is a quesstimate. I flew a 5minute flight but had done several run ups on the ground before that flight, doing range check and attemtping to set the throttle curve.

I was just trying to report the most accurate information I could without writing a book , I probably should have just left that part off until I had more accurately measured flight times.

Kirk
My thrust feels just right in verticals , and just as MTK said the CG change seems to have corrected the pull to canopy.
I got 2 flights in calm air yesterday evening and I'm happy with everything except an ever so slight roll out in KE. It is rolling right in left knife edge, is this proverse roll? I can never keep those terms proverse & adverse in the correct order. It is so small that I'm just gonna add a touch of ail-rud mix to take care of it.


On another note. I have noticed the shear webbing in the wings has the grain running lengthwise - not vertically. IS this something to be concerned with?. Would hitting it with CA help anything or would it require surgery to add any real strength to the wing?

Troy Newman

It needs to be going vertical on that shear webing....Ask Jarvis Johnson. I was helping him trim his model at the Yuma Contest. He had about 15-20 flights on the model. The right wing departed the model in a 4pt roll.

The purpose of the shear web is to keep the spars from moving toward each other. If the grain is not vertical the balsa will split and the spars will come together. When this happens there is nothing to give strength out past the tube location and the tube will pull right through the sheeting. I don't feel its a rib issue its just a shear webbing issue.

Solution is to on the back side of the wing spars, easily accessed when covering is removed form the bottom of the wing. Add shear webs with the grain going the correct vertical direction to each bay. On the inboard bays you will have to slice the sheeting to allow for this web to be installed. It needs to be in each bay all the way out...My opinion is all the way to the tip. Thick CA would be fine for attaching the web.

As for opening the sheeting...you don't need a big hole just a little clean slot that you can slide the web down into the bay and attach it to the 2 spars.

This model flies really well. I'm surprised as its all open bay structures...but it flies awesome. I flew Bryan Kennedy's back in October and Jarvis's model a couple weeks ago and its a good plane.

Both models failed the same way. I was lucky and not the one flying Bryan's when it failed. Unfortunately Jarvis didn't have much rudder travel on his and it just would not hold knife edge at full stick.

I would recommend this plane as it flies really well. For starting out, I think this plane and the Focus are at the top of the list for less expensive models that fly well and can do the job.


Troy

swlarcham

My Feedback: (1)

Troy
thanks for the reply.
I am going to have to give this some thought. I sure hate to cut open that beautiful covering job
I may see about getting a set of replacement wings. Then I would be less nervous about cutting into these.
Your vote of confidence on this planes flying ability makes me feel good.
Now if it would just QUIT accepting Wrong Rudder inputs I'd be in good shape.
Eddie

handglider

My Feedback: (23)

horizontal shear webing ???

wow - sure sounds like a major design flaw and you guys gotta cut the full span in the china cote to fix it,

I have to say this sounds like a recall to me - that plus the other issues - this plane must fly really really great to be worth it..... wow.....

glad I got the boot back on post # 38 http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=4548700 and my money back....

yea less money and a whole lot of work.......

cheers all,

Dean

MTK

Suggestion.... the Evolution is extremely inexpensive by any standard. If the wing is in question, chuck it and build one from balsa covered foam. The very best foam work I have ever seen in my 35+ years of aeromodeling comes from Lazlo Horvath, [email protected]. Send him your root and tip sketches, coordinates or any other means you might have.

Sure its more work and a bit more cash but if the model flies as well as Troy sez, it's obviously worth keeping around. Hell after all that I think I will buy one myself. Hmmmm, wonder if they can sell the thing without the pastic trash bag around it.

MattK

KGSS28

Troy

Was that plane the first or second generation and did it have a 1/4x1/4 stringer running lengthwise on the front set of webs top and bottom. Mine is from the second order it was my understanding that Brian had a first order one but dont know for shure it was also my understanding that this change was made on the second order because of this problem ?

Are you shure this will work? From looking at it you are right it would be an easy repair.Should I just use some medium grade 1/16 balsa.

Thanks Kirk

swlarcham

My Feedback: (1)

I wasn't gonna say anymore as I wasn't trying to start anything and I am so glad to see Troy's answer (very objective and informative information). I certainly didn't mean to open the door to the Evolution bashers, pun intended

I spoke with UltraRC today and I do have a plane from the 1st generation/series/runof production. They were extremely helpful and explained several methods of strengthening the wing for my own peace of mind. I think I will make a recomended modification to the wing. This is my first electric and I can't see a new motor and a good set of batteries going down over the questionable need of a few pieces of balsa.
It is my understanding also that they made some modifications to subsequent production runs to correct the problems that had been discovered.

I for what it is worth feel Ultra RC has done an admirable job of taking care of me a lowly 402 flyer with his 1st ever purchase from them. It will not be my last, in fact I ordered some replacement parts just today. As soon as I can afford it I do plan on a 2nd Evolution as a backup.

I apologize to Ultra RC for any difficulties my question may cause. It was certainly unintentional.
Eddie

Troy Newman

I don't think its really a design flaw....Its an easy fix. They used a good piece of wood just the grain is not going in the right direction. Engineering flaw perhaps. I look at design flaws as inherent problems with the model that can't be fixed. This is a material selection choice that was poor.

Use some med grain not super soft 1/16" balsa will be perfect. You could use 1/8" too.....Basically you are building it into an enclosed spar type of construction. By adding the webbing to the rear of the spars it will be even stronger than if they had put the grain the proper direction to begin with. I have no idea about first or second run of models. I only know the one I saw and flew had the shear webbing grain going horizontal, and not vertical. You can look inside the wing as the ribs are all laser cut and open. If the webbing material is horizontal (span wise) direction not matter how much glue you stick on it, or how many more stringer or subspars you add to it...Its not going to do its job properly. The purpose of the webbing is to keep the top and bottom spar separated. If the grain is horizontal it can buckle. If the webbing material is vertical then you are pushing on the fibers of the wood like little columns. These are the strongest use of the material here. This gives the balsa maximum chance to keep those spars apart. When the spars yield and come together then the wing tube will just pull through the wing. The reason is the load is not being transfered through the spars out further into the wing and it will break at the end of the tube.



As far as fixing it....the wing is 90% open bays anyway. So pull the covering back on the bottom of the wing from the spar back and add shear webs on the back of the 2 spars.

To cut any sheeting away would only require maybe 3-4 bays on each wing panel. I would cut the sheeting flush on the back side of the spar and make it 1/16" slot from rib to rib. The put some epoxy on the shear web and slide it down the top sheeting and the top spar. When dry just sand it flush with the sheeting of the wing. In the open bays it will take 10mins to cut and sand shear webs to go between the spars. It doesn't have to be a perfect fit...just has to attach to both top and bottom spars. Once this little beef up job is complete the wing should be extremely strong.

I was happy with the way the wing was built, and wood choices made. It was all glued pretty well and looked good. The difference is the wood grain was just going the wrong way.

I know this because early on in modeling life I built a plane from scratch and the wing failed. The old guy that walked with me to pick it up looked it over and said "Boy you need to learn about material selection. Some things balsa wood is good at. some things its not. Some things it can used a certain way and others it can not. Shear webbing is always vertical grain wood."

So down to this model. This is not a bash on the plane. Its a good flying model. Its a great pattern model and flies extremely well. It will take 2 nights work if you are slow, and about $20 in covering material, one sheet of normal hobby shop balsa med style to beef it up.

If you are flying this model or have one not flown yet I would do the modification. Its simple and clean. Recover the wing from the spar back and you are done.

To attack Ultra RC about this being a design flaw is just a load of BS. It will just make it so they will not bring the model in anymore. Reality to me it would be worth spending the $400 on the kit and then fixing this issue myself.

You can go extreme and build new wings for it but I don't see much need. Just a little extra glue and little extra balsa and its a done deal.

I hesitate to say anything as I'm not bashing Ultra RC or their manufacturer. Look this guy is doing us a service by selling these products. Yes he is trying to make a couple bucks in the process. The reality is we all know you are not going to get rich in model airplanes. So everytime he replaces a model that fails it hits is small bottom line. Every complaint about design flaws is another hit to the bottom line. The very fact that they are offering a good product, at a very cheap price means they are willing to do something to help you and I out as pattern flyers. Reality is this fix is so easy and quick that it should not deter anyone from the model.

This sport is still about being a modeler. We have bozos in this sport that CAN'T glue two sticks together. its OK we want you guys too. But it takes some skills as a model builder to fly model airplanes. To attack a plane as being flawed is one thing but that doesn't do any good without a solution. This is not a flying flaw its a material selection choice that was poor. I don't see that as a reason to kick the plane and call it a turd.

If you spend the time fixing this plane up it will be very good and could teach you a bunch about flying aerobatics. That is what this sport is about. Guys complain about the planes I fly as they are super expensive and yet they also complain when a super cheap model that is the same size and same function is 10% the cost that it is poorly built and a chunk of junk. I don't think its poorly built, and I don't think Ultra RC had much to do with the design or material selection. Its unfortunate.

I would encourage UltraRC to contact me and we can talk about it. Perhaps working with them and with the manufacturing facility in China we can get the material changed to vertical grain, and this will solve the problem. See guys this is what competition guys do. They work with manufacturers to make products better. This is why some guys get affiliations with companies and get slammed as being sponsored and biased or paid. Reality is this type of feedback is what manufacturers need to make their products better. This is why Oxai is affiliated with top pilots like Quique, W + R Matt, Naruke, and Suzuki. They want the feedback on how to make the model better. If you have an axe to grind or another product to push this is NOT the thread to do it. This is about helping the Ultra RC planes that are out there or are going to be out there. I think what Ultra is trying to do is good for pattern and aerobatics. Its unfortunate that some on this list let their mouths over run their brains regarding this and other models. This plane has had enough bashing from other guys that just aren't good enough to be opening their mouth and blasting it. Sorry you have to have some credibility. As my buddy told me tonight. Making a huge mistake and costing you a contest is just adding to your experience. Experience breeds credibility. Just because you have a keyboard and a thought runs through your head doesn't mean you have credibility. In fact you could just be like the guy asking the question. If you notice the Big boys don't come here. Guess why? They don't need to fuel their need for credability. They earned it.

I'm here to help guys like Eddie becasue I like flying Aerobatics. I got help from folks when I was coming through the ranks and I'm doing nothing more than paying it forward for the next guy.

If you don't like to fix a little thing like this or you want a better model I know where you can get one. Call 1800-Oxai and open your check book up. Call 1-800 Dave Guerin and open your checkbook up. Both of these options are available to you as are others. And I can tell you first hand that both Dave's and Oxai's planes are among the best in the world!

But reality is this plane is in my opinion better than some of the '"latest" designs for the 401, 402 and 403 guys. This is where the Focus (pun intended) needs to be. We have a huge number of Masters flyers. Many of whom are modelers too. A modeler looks at a problem and fixes it and make the solution work. Our airplanes are tools. If they need a little fix here or there to help them do the job that is part of modeling. You would not hesitate to move the CG, adjust a wing or stab or build a different landing gear block if you felt the original design didn't meet you needs. This is the same type of thing. Yes it involves a little glue and little covering material. Go buy a roll of Ultracote and Iron it on.

The Evolution and Focus are good models, they are not absolutely perfect in every way. But you get what you pay for and even professional built models are not 100% flawless.

So enjoy flying toy airplanes. This forum is a way to exchange information, and to help folks like Eddie that are learning to fly aerobatics. I am affiliated with a product that compete against the Focus and the Evolution. Would I tell a guy that is flying 402 to fly a $3000 Oxai plane NOPE. I will tell him to call and order Focus or an Evolution. Because by the time is skills catch up with the model, he will be 2-3 airplanes down the line from the current plane. if he wants a Guerin built plane or an Oxai plane that's his choice. Does he need it? Nope and if he thinks he does then we are not doing our job as Pattern flyers. The reality is I don't care what model you fly, or where you got it. You bring your Dog and I'll bring Mine and we'll see who wins the competition. That is what it is all about.

If you are not a modeler, and just open the checkbook when you need it done for you then start learning now. It will make you a better pattern pilot, it will make you a better pilot. Pattern is about more than flying. Its about model building, trimming, setup, equipment reliability, and practice. If you don't know how to glue two sticks together then you need to learn. I'm willing to help as other are as well. We had a mentor teach us how to do it too.

Pattern models are not like walking up to the Ford dealer or Pizza Hut and asking for one with everything. We all have our Dogs and we take them to the show.

By the way Toby is looking a little hungry so I better feed my dog. For those that don't know Toby is my pattern dog. Him and I are buddies and he likes to attend the contests. This is last years NATS. The photo was taken after a vicious attack on Lamar. If you notice it looks a little like Cujo.


Troy Newman
Team JR, Team Oxai, Team CoolPower, Team YS

matt13

BRING IT ON.

KGSS28

Thanks Troy . I have opened both my wings up and find a well built structure except the webs. You are correct the upgrade will be very easy. I should complete it in an evening . Recover and add a little of me to the trim scheme and lets go fly.

Thanks again for your time
Kirk