Nickolas

Hi Kjell,

Fuselage is very light, I did not expect it to be honest. This glass-balsa-glass technique seems to be be a lot lighter than glass-herex-glass one, this is what Oxai also does. So by bying an Integral is like buying an Oxai with a bit worse finishing...

Anyway I am very satisfied by the kit parts etc, have not assembled the tubes yet to see whether they fit and measure incidences etc. but don't think there will be an issue. I don't like the classic scheme but nevermind I really like the ZN Line one but I would have to wait till mid October for new delivery.

Kjell when yours was built? Mine according to the part labels is March 2007.

Regards,
Nikos

67685

... sounds good ...

actually it was better than i expected also ... My labels say the same as yours ..

Beside the low weight, there is another thing i like specially with this bird; the low-wing displacement. In other words , i think it`s better to see how it perform in different attitudes when the wing / fuselage are defined clearly ... I really didn`t thought about it before i was told, but i totally agree ...

Now , it`s time to get known to it and enjoy!

Kjell Olav

Nickolas

Hi Kjell,

I am waiting for the servos and some hardware, hopefully the plane will be flown in October, looking forward to it.

My setup is as folllows:

- YS 160DZ, Hyde ARIA Mount
- Hatori 821, Cool Header and Nishioka Pipe Mount
- Servos: Futaba 9650 on elevators, JR 8401 on ailerons and rudder
- Power setup: Powerbox Digi Switch with either TP LiPo 1320 mAh 2s or Duralite LiIon 2200 mAh 2s
- Wheels hardware etc. all by MK
- Plumbing System: Tetra
- JR radio and Rx 10DS Synthesized

I have some doubts about my servo choice so I would like your help here. The 8411SAs used before were a bit sloppy so I ordered the full plastic ones 8401, however these servos seem to me a bit slow. So I found the following alternative setup by Futaba and I think of canceling the order of 8401s.

- Futaba 9451 (8.7 Kg, 0.10s) on ailerons
- Futaba 9350 (10kg, 0.12s) on rudder

These Futaba servos have metal gears and this concerns me a bit as it is likely to develop slop in the future. Has anyone used them in similar application (F3A use)?

Looking forward to replies,
Thanks
Nikos

67685

Hi Nikos,

There are many good servos our there , and i have just tried a few of them , at least for an extensive period of operation ...
Now i try to keep to a few, making it easier to interchange etc.

I have also a log-book , registrating every flight , equipment cycles and so on , actually a maintenance program if you like ... Then i can follow , like the servos , how they perform for a longer time. Then i continue with the operation until some tests or measurement tell it`s time for changing parts or complete assy. In other words, my component running "on-condition".

Servos;
Personally i prefer the non-metallic gears for F3A use , but again i have just tried a few . My work-horses for aileron application are the JR9411SA and Futaba 9252 .Both have done a good job for many cycles, and they keep what they promise.

For rudder, i still running my Futaba 9151, also a good and truly servo that have stayed tuned for an impressive time without remarks, so now i will see how long it last before i change ...

Mechanical advantage is an important issue. I guess i spend a lot of time to do this right, and then just using the servos i am familiar with, interchangeable , and already have by hand.

Kjell Olav

PeterP

Nickolas, why are you using the ARIA mount in this model. I would be using the ARA version with a seperate nose ring up front. This setup will save you 2.5-3 ounces.

I can recomend the Futaba 9155 for rudder and I like the Futaba 9154 aileron servo. I am not sure if it will be an easy fit in the servo hole provided in the wing.

ram_z

The JR 9401 is like a glove to the servo hole provided in the wing,
The Futaba servos (9154) are bigger so I think it is not worth the work to trim the servo hole to the servo it self.

Ram

67685

Nikos,

.. PeterP have a point ...

I am using the YS160 with the 821 muffler, hyde 140ARA mount ( seperate nose-ring, alu-beams) servos in tail (3421sa) and the Li-Ion mounted far aft , and my CG is 180-185 cm ...
If you put additional OZ in the nose, it will be more likely you need weight in the tail ... at least when you want to play with the CG ..

The stock ring are fine, light and strong ..

Kjell Olav

Nickolas

Thanks for the answers,

So the plane comes nose heavy... this concerns me a bit...I use the ARIA type mount as it is easy to install and is the only one I have right now. I have read various negative comments about this mount, IMO does not work very well but I would not rather to encounter another extra cost. I will be using two 9650s at the tail which are heavier than the 3421SAs and also I think of using a Mejslik prop (18x10) which is 1+ounce lighter than the APC (17x12) plus a plastic spinner (no Tru Turn).

Hm...9411SA seems to be a good option but is smaller then the case of 8401..I believe that the 8401 fits perfectly so the servo slot is a bit loose for 9411SA. Please correct me if I am wrong.

Regards,
Nikos

ram_z

As i said "like a glove".

I am not sure that 8401 will fit at all to the servo hole in the wing Because it is to big.

Regards

Ram

67685

Nikos,

.. the JR9411SA fit perfectly in the slot`s, at least in mine ...

In the picture you see it installed, together with Central-H titan/carbon rods. The Horn is self-made of aluminium ( 2024-T3) for those of you that like to play with these things ...

Kjell Olav

67685

... in the above picture, you can also see the aileron Gap seal. Look closely and you find the contour of the tape ... Work fine, done the same thing on my Impact ...

Rune

hi
I have used both the futaba 9154 and 9150 , but for my next plane i plan to use Jr9411sa .
The Futaba servos (9150\9154) get to sloppy in the gears.
I have also got one that worn out the pot. after 150 flights, this maybe not get better if it was a JR ...but

67685

Hi Rune,

.. still bad weather, so it`s better to be inside, learning the P-09..
I still have things to catch up, but i am in the right track ,and this season i past 200 flight`s with P-07.

The servos differ , not necessarily bad quality, but it seems to me that some of them simply do not like the application they are put into. Some just "quit" after too short time ( pot`s , sloppy gears ), while others just stay tuned ..

Kjell Olav

Rune

forgot to say ..this was for ailron use!
on elevator i have used Jr 8401 and also Futaba 9650 x 2 on the last plane i used a fast gyro servo (dont remeber nr same as cprl) i on rudder have now a jr 8401 but i think i will change it to a faster one, the Goodshot is a bit hard to get into the snap.
Yes the weather is not good but i hope i get to fly sunday, saturday my daughter will compete in Taekwondo close to you in the Nannestadhall, so that will be my job get her there!

PeterP

Nickolas, why not remove the steel fork arrangement from the mount. Then you have a mount and seperate nose ring which can be mounted as if you had an ARA mount (not sure if this will work as I have never owned an ARIA mount) You have spent all this money purchasing a competitive light weight model and it will be a shame to make it any heavier than it needs to be. Excess weight is always excess weight no matter whatever you do so installing lighter components later will not make things right. The CG issue mentioned could be a problem and you may need to place extra weight in the tail to compensate therefore adding additional weight. I know what I would do if I was in your position. Much easier to deal with it now than later.

Nickolas

Guys many thanks for the interest and instant responses.

Peter it does not work like that IMO. You can not remove the steel fork , ARIA type mounts have much thinner rubber from the A type so if they are not used with the fork the will not provide as much as dumping as the A type and also may be damaged. This is what I have understood from the research I did when I purchased this mount and speaking with sales people from CH. This hobby is endless ok you will always something else better to buy, with this logic I would have also to get a 170 and put the 160 on the shelf... Thanks for the advice anyway and appreciate your input, I have not taken my final decision yet regarding the mount.

Regarding servos I cancelled the order of the 8401s, I went finally for 2x9411SAs for ailerons (briliant servo, light, and very fast) and 1x8411SA for rudder (it is a good servo but has a slight slop as the head is metal. It is not exactly the same as 8401 whose all gears are plastic).

We can get some ideas about F3A servos requirements in general in the American JR Web Site and BPLR Blog Spot, where he outlines his setups for Oxalys and Osmose.

I am waiting for the hardware to arrive probably next week and will start building the plane, till then happy landings to everyone.

Best regards,
Nikos

cchariandy

Can the guys who used the supplied nose rings post a few pics of the installation? I'm new to nose installations and need some training.

Thanks much
Colin.

cchariandy

I meant nose ring installations...also do the supplied nose rings plus the split fuel tubing work as well as the O-ring equipted units? Is the opening in the nose ring already sized for a YS160?

Colin.

jlkonn

My Feedback: (1)

http://www.centralhobbies.com/buildi...ering/nr1.html

67685

Hi Colin,

In the pictures you can see the stock nose-ring installation in the Integral.

The ring have a perfect fit to YS, just rounding the inner radius-corner and install the fuel hose. ( normal sized like aerotrend,prather etc). I use silicon to fasten it, both for right pos and support. The tube need replacement between approx 70-80 flight`s , so as you can see; it is fastened from outside for easy and quik replacement of the tube. In other words ; only the prop and spinner need to be removed , and the two screw`s holding the ring.
In fact ,this is my favour setup, and with the hyde-mount it work very well.I have done the same with all my models, at least so far ... The ring is soft, but keep the engine in pos, let it turn freely so the mount itself can do it`s job ...

Hope this help
Kjell Olav

67685

Hi,

... so, finally everything works as it should ... My brand new elev-servo ( one of them ), said thanks & goodbye while setting everything up ... now i have got a couple of new ones installed ...
So, if the weather smile to me, i have the hole next week to enjoy !

Kjell Olav

crazyf3a

Hello to all
I has also bought a ZN-Line integral to me.
When I got the parcel, chin cowl was broken. [][:@]
From the outside I have noted nothing.
The problem is the Inside. The demarcation for the landing gear and other parts is the problem.
If it had stuck nothing could happen. So I had become a broken chin cowl.
I have informed Mr. Zardini about it. Till this day I have got nothing.
I have already waited very long for the machine, and now this. [][][].
I am sad.

Here are the weights from my ZN-Line Integral
Fuselage 738,0 gr
Canopy 89,5 gr
Chin Cowl 75,5 gr
left wing 405,0 gr
right wing 400,0 gr
left Stab 111,5 gr
right Stab 108,0 gr
Carbon Wing tube 85,5 gr
Carbon Stab tube 12,0 gr
Rudder 60,0 gr
Carbon Landing gear 113,0 gr
Wheel Pants 34,0 gr
All Parts 2.232 gr

ram_z

Hi crazy

Sorry to hear about the damage.
My airplane also didn't arrive in a good shape. My rudder was broken.
I waited to JP for two weeks for having a price for a new rudder...

For how long are you waiting?

Nickolas

Mine is also broken but my Comp ARF representative will send me a new one. I don't understand what you mean by "demarcation" of the landing gear?

Your fuselage seems to be on the heavy side ...the rest of the parts are fine according to other measurements read. I wish I had that ZN scheme it looks great, I have the classic one and I do my best to let myself like it but...but is rather difficult...

Regards,
Nikos

BERUSTY

My Feedback: (3)

Composite- Arf Integral very much a build thread...

My first model arrived with the same "creased" chin cowl. Jason (Shulman) said that several of the models have had this issue and he has ordered a number of chin cowls for replacement purposes. Personally, I pushed it back into shape and it looks ok. Is it ok enough to never notice? Probably. Is ist ok enough to have BadBrad come up with a nifty silver swoosh complimenting his new "Integral" logo with swoosh? Yes!

Here are a few photos of the electric version. I will more than likely offer a NEW Integral Electric/YS DZ 170 powered thread in the next month sharing a few potential items of interest acquired from my past (24) months of "Pattern Camp".

Rusty Dose
Team Futaba
Team YS Parts and Service