Brenner

Hey Terry,

I am running a Hacker competition C50-14XL with the Hacker Opto 99 Speed Control, and I am using a pair of 5S1P Tanic Pack 4350 mah 25C batteries. Tanic Packs made these up special for me with balance connectors for the CellPro 10S charger. I have a pair of CellPro 10S chargers, and I charge the packs at 2C at the field in about 20 to 25 minutes.

You can get more technical information about the Li-po cells in the battery packs at www.enerland.com.

mups53

My Feedback: (41)

Hey Brenner what is your AUW with the larger packs? Thanks, Mike

67685

Hi all,

Any experience to hard-mount the Hacker C50 ?.
Thinking about hard mount the engine upfront, and use the ordinary aft-mount ( fuel hose -ring).

Thanks
Kjell Olav

Nickolas

Some more detailed pics...

Brenner

Hey Mike,

With a pair of 5000 mah 25C Tanic Packs, I am about 5.14 kg. With a pair of 4350 mah 25C Tanic Packs, I am about 5.009 kg. I've got a carbon fiber spinner on order from Netbox Hobby that should save me about 19g, which will put me at 4.99 kg, which will should keep me legal for the Nats with 10g left over for my AMA number.

Right now I'm using Bolly carbon fibre landing gear and wheel pants, an 1100 mah A123 2 cell RX pack, a PGP Carbon Fibre Wing Tube, and an APC 21X14 electric Prop, with a Tru-Turn 3 1/4" FAI lightened spinner. I'm also using Futaba 9155 servos on the ailerons and the rudder, and a pair of Futaba 9650s on the elevators.

By the way, congratulations for kicking my but so handily in Chcago the other week.

can773

My Feedback: (1)

Brenner

If you are flying electric (which I think you are) you can drop your Rx pack to a 2s 480 lipo which will be good for 5 flights easily. Even with the extra weight of a regulator I think you will be ahead in weight from the 1100 a123. Figure about 40 grams or so for the 480+reg, the 1100 a123 cells are 40g each, so you are at least 80g + wrapping and cables.

Brenner

Hey Chad,

Yes, you're right. I've been considering the Li-po plus regulator option, but my current thinking is that as long as I can make weight with the 2S1P A123, I prefer it because I don't have the added complexity of the regulator, and it uses a safer battery chemistry than Li-Polys do.

Other options to lose weight are to use a pair of VHBEC's from Dimension Engineering. I'm flying on 2.4 Ghz so I don't think interference from the VHBEC's is a potential problem. Also, I could go to low profile servos for my ailerons, and save about an ounce. I could also go to soft foam wheels instead of the Sullivan Liteflights I'm using now. That'd probably save an ounce as well, and if I get really desperate, I can always remove my wheel pants for even one more ounce.

All in all I could probably save maybe 4 ounces max, which isn't enough to get me into the next battery size, which would probably be a pair of 30C 5S1P 4500 mah batteries.

can773

My Feedback: (1)

Brenner,

Whatever you do, please don't remove the wheelpants

mups53

My Feedback: (41)

I can't stand 2 things in life
#1 is a plane without wheelpants. It's like walking around naked with your pants down at your ankles.
#2 and this is probably the worst thing is anyone who puts ketchup on a hot dog. Dude that's just wrong on so many levels. Mike

can773

My Feedback: (1)

Well, 1 out of 2 is not bad Mike!.....I love ketchup on hot dogs

mups53

My Feedback: (41)

Chad here in Chicago they would have a problem with that. At least you use wheel pants. Mike

Brenner

I wondered why people kept looking at me funny when I was in Chicago ... And I thought it was because I flew so bad ...

mups53

My Feedback: (41)

Brenner I think things will be alright if you just put your pants back on.
By the way I wasn't the one looking at you funny at the Tri Village contest.
Last year I had Dave Snow's 2 year old Impact. It was 7 ounces overweight when I 1st got it and I was able to get 10 ounces off the plane. It still had wheel pants when I was done.
Mike

wingster

My Feedback: (26)

I'm putting together an integral with electric power, Hacker A60-20S. I ordered the Chad Northeast colors scheme and it was delivered promptly in three weeks. The pictures that Chad posted in post# 708 don't do it justice.

In an effort to save weight I'm considering replacing the 2mm wire(11g) rudder hinge with a carbon rod. Has anyone tried this?

Also the rudder servo tray is pretty beefy. Besides acting as a servo tray, is the tray in the normal position needed to provide structural support for the turtle deck.

JAS

My Feedback: (2)

The carbon pin is do-able. Just make sure to check it for wear every 50 flights or so. Since the rudder tray is only carbon/balsa, I would suggest that stays as is. The biggest culprit for weight that we've found in building these is equipment selection and glue. No gobs of glue and you can save an ounce or more. Just make sure everything fits close (not wedged in or loose with air gaps) and use a little epoxy to make fillets on each side of the pieces being glued, and you should be good to go.

OhD

I had the same question. I've been thinking of mounting the rudder servo in the tail. Perhaps there is a lighter way of tying the structure together because that "carbon/balsa" platform is pretty heavy. I'm thinking some kind of balsa truss.

Jim O

Dre

My Feedback: (2)

I replaced the metal pin with a carbon rodsaved 6 grams. The carbon rod had to be sanded a bit to fitdon't recall the size of the rod used. 300-ish flights with this on electric power. I probably would not use the carbon rod if glow powered, or it would need to be replaced frequently.

Rudder servo in tail: If you are going electric you will need to be careful with weight in the tail.

Concur with Jasonequipment selection and minimal glue control the weight in an ARF. The Integral I am flying started out as an all white version, and relative to other Integrals I have seen was about 3 oz. heavier to start. With careful equipment selection, replacement of the wing tube with a PBG tube, replacement of the LG with a Bolly F3A large and with the trim painted on, I came out at 10#6oz using the following equipment: Hacker C50-13XL COMP, Budd Mount, Hacker COMP ESC, FlightPower 5350, APC 20.5x14, TT spinner, Jaccio regulator, TP910 Rx battery, 5014 Futaba Rx, 9650's in the stab, 9550's on ailerons and a BLS-451 on rudder.

Out of the box alignment was very good. No trim issues with CG at 162mm from the wing LE.

I really like this airplane.


See you in Muncie.

Regards,

Andre Bouchard

wingster

My Feedback: (26)

Andre

10lb 6oz is great, especially considering some are coming out at 11lbs.

Did you clear coat?

The present rudder tray is 20g. Here's one I installed in a Prestige. The picture says 9g, but I added more structure and it came in at 12g. The elevator servo mounts above the rudder servo. I used 1/8" carbon/nomex, plywood, and spruce.

Brenner

I have a question for some of the knowledgeable people on this forum. If the max allowable weight is 5 kg, and you are able to make this weight with whatever combination of equipment you select, what's the best trade-off, reducing the all up weight even further, or selecting the best equipment you can while keeping the weight under the 5 kg limit?

I'm thinking that the opportunities for systems optimization lie in the following areas:

Servos - You can choose lighter servos, but maybe at the cost of power, speed, resolution, holding power, etc.

RX Batteries - You can choose smaller capacity Li-poly RX batteries, but at the cost of having less capacity, having to use a regulator with the posibility that it might fail, and being unable to charge as fast as other battery options let you charge.

Props - You can choose smaller, and / or lighter props, but maybe at the cost of reduced efficiency, which can result in increased power consumption, or reduced thrust, or both.

Wheels - You could use foam wheels instead of a more durable pair, which might result in them wearing out, or tearing, when flying from paved runways.

Main Batteries - You can choose one of the lighter series of Li-poly batteries, but maybe at the cost of having a lower C rating, which means that the battery has higher internal resistance, which means that it will heat up more during a flight, which might require you to add additional ducting inside your plane to direct more cooling air over the battery, which could result in additional weight and complexity. Also, a battery with a lower C rating won't last as long as a battery with a higher C rating, which means that it will need replacing more often, which offsets the lower original cost of the battery.

Some of the areas where I don't think compromise is required are as follows:

Being frugal with glue
Using a carbon fiber spinner
Replacing the wing tube with one from PGB
Making sure that all servo leads and battery leads are at minimum length
Replacing the landing gear with a carbon fibre f3a landing gear set from Bolly
Using aluminum wheel axles
Using a spread spectrum radio so you don't need an antenna tube.
replacing the screws that came with the plane with shorter versions. (I saved a gram!! ...)

My current thinking is that as long as I can keep the weight below 5 kg, I prefer to use the following:

Sullivan lightflight wheels so I don't have to worry about them wearing or tearing.
An A123 1100 mah 2s1p RX pack without a regulator because it's simple, long lived, robust to abuse, I can fly up to ten flights without recharging, and it'll charge in ten minutes or less.
An APC 21X14 prop, because the power in the air is excellent, and it seems to draw considerably less mah from my battery pack, which lets me use a smaller, higher C rated battery.

rcpattern

My Feedback: (45)

I can't speak for the main battery pack as I fly glow, but as for servos and such, put the best in there. Weight savings here for servos that don't center, basically makes for a useless airplane. I think most of the electric guys are running the really light LiPo for the receiver pack with a regulator. I know guys running 400mah packs for the receivers. Also, find the best prop setup for your power system. Even a plane near the 5kg limit with today's power systems still have power to spare. One advantage to electric is you weigh the same when you land as when you takeoff..where most glow setups are well over 5kg at takeoff.

Arch

Dave Kelly

Hi Chad,
I just wanted to check your settings for the integral.
Do you measure the level neutral axis along the chin cowling mark like the others?
It is my first all moulded pattern model!! (sorry for the questions) , my first electric pattern model (does a Sebart Angel S50 really count?)
I am running a Hacker C50 13XL Acro comp 21x14 APC E and spin 99 controller.
I have replaced the landing gear with the bolly long F3A as well.
Can you give me some photos of your canopy mounting system?

Thanks
Dave

cchariandy

Is there really any weight savings going to the Bolly Long/Large gear? Some earlier posts put the CompARF gear at 3.2 to 3.9 oz...the Bolly site lists the F3A large as 4.2oz.

I'm trying to loose a couple oz up front so that I can take off 1 oz of lead I have in the tail.

Colin.

Brenner

There might be variation in the gear that comes with the Integral. I just weighed a set that came with one one of my Integrals, and it came out at 4.45 oz, so the Bolly gear saves me 0.25 oz. The 4.45 oz weight is from a digital scale, and it's only the gear, no wheel pants, wheel axles, or screws.

One of the things I like about the Bolly gear is that the wheel pants have features that fit around the gear legs so they are automatically aligned when you screw them on.

For those that are using glow power I believe that there are Bolly landing gear choices that are even lighter if you don't need the clearance for your prop.

If you're nose heavy you might want to consider a Carbon Fibre Spinner. I'm using the one from Netbox hobby, (they only have one size ...) and it fits perfectly. In actual fact, it's the only one I could find that did fit.

Dave Kelly

Hi Colin,

Sorry my kitchen scales are metric over here, but the Comp ARF 2x supplied composite legs were 143grams
and the longer bolly ( 1 piece just now) gear was 129grams.

regards
Dave

RC Technics

I am not to happy with my snap roll with my Integral.

I have it setup with max ailerons and less rudder, elevator but the snaps are not as tight I would like. Plus I lose my line after the snap.

If possible could some one measure their control throws in the snap condition?