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Composite-ARF Integral, kinda build thread

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Old 01-10-2010, 09:53 AM
  #976
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Default RE: Composite-ARF Integral, kinda build thread

Hi,

My two El powered Integrals had the same behaviour + some other i wanted to change ..., i choosed following setup to correct this :

Stab at 0 deg :

* Up / down thrust close to 0 deg ( from original about -2 )
* side thrust from 2 to 4 deg ,depend on the propeller size/type and with/without canalizer. ( from original 2deg right thrust).
* wing at approw +0.5 deg
* CG at approx 170mm from L.E

Nice charateristic behaviour, just my liking for FAI prog.

Hope this help
Kjell Olav


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Old 01-10-2010, 01:23 PM
  #977
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Default RE: Composite-ARF Integral, kinda build thread

Kjell,

Thanks for the suggestion. I've received similar input for Bryan Hebert as well. So now that is two FAI pilots telling me the same thing. I've also been told that the plan "CG at 205mm" is crazy. Now reading your post, as well as input from other Integral owners I have to wonder why the design of this plane, and the manual are not corrected. While I am impressed with the ability for this plane to do a nice rolling circle, I consider the stock setup (at least the plane that I received) to be very problematic when it comes to flying the FAI pattern.

I think my next plane will be the Valiant. Bryan tells me these problems are fixed on that plane.

Paul Villarrubia
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Old 01-21-2010, 10:39 AM
  #978
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Default RE: Composite-ARF Integral, kinda build thread

Calling Super Jason . . . are u still listening in on this thread?

I took apart your motor today so I could grease it, but I didn't pay attention to the orientation of the doughnut that was attached and now I don't know where to line up the shim, and I am assuming the shim is designed to slightly change the thrust line? Plus does everyone use a doughnut like that? What does it do aside from connecting the motor to the firewall? Is it a dampner of some sort?

Help Uber Jason Help?


Seriously though I will send an email to JAS as a back up to this post, but if anyone knows how to properly put my motor back in I'd love some help.

Thanks as always,


JP


P.S. It's interesting to note that the total weight of this setup ends up higher than that of an EVO 30-10.
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Old 01-21-2010, 12:47 PM
  #979
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Default RE: Composite-ARF Integral, kinda build thread

Why did you take the Hyde mount out? All you needed to do was remove the screws from the front and slide it out.

You might as well have Chris put in the Pletty now
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Old 01-21-2010, 01:09 PM
  #980
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Default RE: Composite-ARF Integral, kinda build thread

Hyde Mount! Ah Hah! Like they say "learn somethin' new everyday." Thanks abunch Joe; now I'll go do a little homework on "Hyde Mounts".


Hey, do you know where that shim was supposed to go? Left, right, top or bottom?


Thanks either way.

Joe


P.S. I'm waitin' for a call from Chris to talk about just that
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Old 01-21-2010, 07:40 PM
  #981
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Default RE: Composite-ARF Integral, kinda build thread

Joe,

Only Jason would know the location of that shim. You do know where the cardboard piece still goes?
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Old 01-21-2010, 08:41 PM
  #982
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Default RE: Composite-ARF Integral, kinda build thread

Yeah the shim is still attached in the same place, but I have no idea whether he wanted right thrust, down thrust, or whatever. I'm certain JAS can clear it up, I'm just waiting to hear. I promise next time to leave the Hyde Mount in place . . . of course that's assuming I haven't converted to a Pletty by then


Joe
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Old 01-25-2010, 12:17 PM
  #983
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Default RE: Composite-ARF Integral, kinda build thread

Custom Integral wings/stabs...from a Spark!

Custom "Spark" wing and stab kits from masters champion Dave Snow are available:

Spark wing kit featuring laser cut ribs, DVD manual and full size plans $90.00
Spark wing jig to simplify and speed construction $75.00
Spark inspired 4 degree an-hedral stabilizer kits $60.00 (includes building jig)

Dave Snow has created a very nice wing and stab kit which will save 5+ ounces for the wings and 3+ ounces for the stabs. The wings are exact replicas of the original Krill Spark (newest have smaller/larger ailerons?). The 4 degree an-hedral stab will save at least 3 ounces will effectively lower the stab, reducing the knife edge mix and is adjustable. The stab is not an exact copy (no notch at tip) but with similar airfoils.

My wings and stabs are ready to cover and I am looking forward to flying the new "InteSpark" in 2010 and appreciate Dave's engineering skills. Dave can be reached @ rcparts@att.net for more information.

Rusty Dose
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Old 01-25-2010, 01:19 PM
  #984
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Default RE: Composite-ARF Integral, kinda build thread

I think upgrades for the Int are a great idea.

Can you or Dave post some pics of what comes in the wing and stab kits?

Colin
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Old 01-25-2010, 01:26 PM
  #985
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Default RE: Composite-ARF Integral, kinda build thread

Anyone know of a supplier of pre-built, ready to install Integral replacement wings/stabs that are lighter than what we get from CARF? I know that I can build with balsa/foam and save a ton of weight - but no time to build any longer!


Paul
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Old 01-25-2010, 02:05 PM
  #986
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Default RE: Composite-ARF Integral, kinda build thread

Paul Dave Snow would probably build the wings and stab for you for a resonable cost. As far as making the final alignment and adjustment to the fuse you would probably need a local guy to help you do that. Mike
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Old 01-26-2010, 09:24 PM
  #987
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Default RE: Composite-ARF Integral, kinda build thread

Dave Snow Spark wing and 4 degree an-hedral stab kits!!

Here are the photos of David Snow's very reasonably priced Spark wing/4 degree anhedral stab kits.

The post a few back lists the prices and Dave's contact information. I do not know how "jazzed" he is about building a bunch of wings and stabs...he is happy to ship you kits!

The last photo is of Gernot Bruckman's actual 2007 E-TOC Spark he flew to 2nd place. A huge depron model with some nifty features and comes in at 163 grams with a TP 350 mah 2C lipo...this will be with me at E-Fest this weekend.

Rusty Dose
Team Futaba
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Old 01-27-2010, 12:05 AM
  #988
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Default RE: Composite-ARF Integral, kinda build thread

Although the wing looks a little more difficult to build than typical...it does look like a cool mini project for the Int.

We do need flight testing to determine if there are any benifits other than the reduction of weight. What's the new wing area compared to the Int wing?

Also, does the wing kit include all the balsa and does it fit existing Integral wing tubes?

Colin
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Old 01-27-2010, 09:08 AM
  #989
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Default RE: Composite-ARF Integral, kinda build thread

Dave Snow Spark and Passport wings!!

Colin,

Thank you for your questions.

Flight testing- I assumed that RCU readers would know the wings were tested on an Integral! I have been flying with the Snow's for years. This past year Dave's dad made the switch to "E" power with his Integral AND the new Spark wings...I have never seen John fly so well!

Dave is not a RCU member but he did forward the following with (28) pictures...here are a few.

"...

There are two wing rib kits that I have: one based off the Spark wing and one based off the Passport wing. At this time I do not have a direct replacement for the Integral but what we did for my dad was to use the Spark wing on his Integral to reduce the overall weight of the plane (14.5 oz panels finished with servo) and help the snaps, it did both of these. The ribs have the original Spark dihedral of 7/16" cut into them (Integral is 1/2" dihedral) but this can be easily adjusted during construction. My dads plane still needed a slight amount of mix, less than 3%, in roll so it could use maybe another 1/16" added to make the dihedral 1/2". The Spark uses a 30 mm dia tube (same as the Integral) and the PassPort uses the 7/8" dia tube, not supplied in the kits.

There is also a stab rib kit based on the Sparks stab general size but simplified with the addition of the 4 deg anhedral. We have not flown this stab but after building several they seem very stiff and light. The root ribs of the stab have a slot for a Gator adjuster, but is not required if you would like the original anti-rotation system. On the Integral my dad was flying last year the finished stab panels were over 4.5 oz each, these new ones we have finished for him each weigh 3 oz. The original plane's stab tube can be reused with a paper socket in the stab panel, there are several pictures showing this.

Here are pictures of the wings and stabs under construction. The CD that Rusty mentions has more of these pictures, no step by step instructions. The set of pictures "sp" are the first Spark wings panels being built without a jig, the wing jig is shown in the "j" pictures and the "s" pictures are the stab.

The kits contain the plans, ribs (3/32"), spars (1/4"), web shearing (1/16") and root ribs / doublers (1/8" lite play).
Additional material required: glues, 3/32" balsa sheeting (4"x36"x16 pcs wings, 3"x36"x6 pcs stab), 1/4" balsa leading edge, 1/2" balsa aileron/elevator leading edge and 1/2" balsa for tips. Miscellaneous wood for mounting servos and hardware, socket material for wing adjusters and stab adjusters for stab. Also a 30 mm x 600 mm PBG wing tube and socket is needed for the wing and the stab can reuse the original tube with a paper socket in the stab panel.

Please let me know if you have any more questions or I confused you too much.

Dave Snow


..."

Rusty Dose
Team Futaba
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Old 04-29-2010, 12:09 AM
  #990
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Default RE: Composite-ARF Integral, kinda build thread

BTT (so I can finf it)
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Old 08-13-2010, 04:31 PM
  #991
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Default RE: Composite-ARF Integral, kinda build thread

It looks like my battery pack wants to be right over the landing gear mount in my Integral. I was wondering how everyone installed the battery pack mounting platform? Bonded to the landing gear mount semi-bulkheads or the fuse sides or what?

Jim
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Old 08-13-2010, 05:54 PM
  #992
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Default RE: Composite-ARF Integral, kinda build thread

I glued 3/4" triangular balsa to increase the gluing area flush to the outside of the LG bulkheads and added a 1/4" X 1/2" AC plywood plate to the fuselage sides 2-3 inches behind the rear most LG bulkhead. Then I glued the CF/wood battery platform (in the kit) to the LG bulkheads & triangular stock and ply plate. I use 2 X 1" velcro straps around the tray to hold the batteries. So far nothing has come loose.
Dave
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Old 08-13-2010, 07:46 PM
  #993
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Default RE: Composite-ARF Integral, kinda build thread

Jim,
I've built 3 Integrals and mounted the battery tray to the LG supports as you suggested. Being a glutton for punishment, I glassed the tray into the supports with 2 ounce cloth, about 3/4" X width of tray. The original bond to the support was with a pasty mix of cabosil and West #205 resin/#206 hardener. Before that had a chance to cure, I put in the cloth strips, one to the front support and one to the rear. I used a dental mirror so I could see the cloth which is on the underside of the tray and used an acid brush bent to the various angles needed to position and wet out the cloth. It's not as hard as it sounds except that everything is backwards when you're viewing it via the mirror. Naturally, everything got a good going over with 80 grit sandpaper first followed by an alcohol clean-up. Hope this helps!

Verne Koester


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ORIGINAL: OhD

It looks like my battery pack wants to be right over the landing gear mount in my Integral. I was wondering how everyone installed the battery pack mounting platform? Bonded to the landing gear mount semi-bulkheads or the fuse sides or what?

Jim
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Old 08-14-2010, 03:06 AM
  #994
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Default RE: Composite-ARF Integral, kinda build thread

I just bolted mine to the LG plate with 4/40 bolts into blind nuts which I recessed into the bottom of the mount. Maybe 1 or 2 grams more than glue but it won't come out unless I want it to for modification.

Brian
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Old 08-14-2010, 02:59 PM
  #995
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Default RE: Composite-ARF Integral, kinda build thread

Thanks guys, I guess I liked Brian's approach best. I used a piece of 1/8 light ply 4x7 inches and four 4-40 flat heads 1 1/4 inch long and bolted it in. I like the idea of making it removable in case the shape of the packs changes again.

Jim
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Old 08-14-2010, 05:35 PM
  #996
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Default RE: Composite-ARF Integral, kinda build thread

Yeah, I like Brian's approach too. I have another one to build shortly and I think I'll do the same on the new one.
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Old 05-24-2011, 11:08 PM
  #997
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Default RE: Composite-ARF Integral, kinda build thread

Hi all i`m thinking of getting a CARF Integral and will use a YS 170 CDI or the new 175,i have seen that there are mods that have been made to the Integral like anhedral stabs,T-canaliser on the fuse and different rudder on Jason`s Integral-X.

My question is for people who have flown the Integral with these mods and others who didn`t and think that these could help the Integral with better flying performance,are they really needed and did they help on better knife edge,less mix,better snaps etc. ?.

Best regards.
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Old 05-24-2011, 11:57 PM
  #998
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Default RE: Composite-ARF Integral, kinda build thread

Hi Dave,

I hope you could assist me. I am looking at improving exactly this issue of my Integral, namely: less weight (especially in the wing panels). Would it be possible to assist me in the process involved to get a set of these Spark modified wings for the Integral out to South Africa?

I will great ly appreciate any help as I want to revive the old Integral as the capabilities of this airframe in strong winds are phenomenal..

Regards
Danie
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Old 05-25-2011, 07:00 AM
  #999
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Default RE: Composite-ARF Integral, kinda build thread

Hi Danie, please send me an email and I will try and help you: rcparts@att.net

Dave Snow
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Old 06-21-2012, 05:20 AM
  #1000
Jetdesign
 
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Default RE: Composite-ARF Integral, kinda build thread

I can't believe... I just ordered an Integral!

Not sure why I can't believe it, I sure have been spending a lot of time at work thinking about it...
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