snsmith

My Feedback: (5)

I'm getting ready to start on a Typhoon 2000 (more than likely all wood) and have a YS FZ120 on the shelf. Is this enough engine or am I going to need to get a 140?

I'm really just starting out in precision aerobatics and am by no means an expert. I have been practicing/goofing around with a Widebody with a YS FZ91 in it for the past few months. Just thought the Typhoon was a pretty plane and got the itch to build one. I guess I could try the 120 and upgrade it later if I feel the need...

Any input would be most welcome!

Troy Newman

You will be fine with the 120.....If you were looking at buying a new one I would say get a 140.....but the 120 and the Typhoon will serve you well for a lot longer than you have the plane....I'm talking you can honestly compete and fly that setup for many many years and it will work...


Build the Typhoon light light light....


Buy the good 4-6lb balsa it makes a huge difference.....AND be careful not to use too heavy or too strong of components and structures.....The 120 will haul it but it will need to be light as you can do it.....a 10lb plane will like the 120 a ton better than a 11+lb plane and the typhoon can get heavy in a hurry....so beware.....take the lightest route when building and making decisions....

If you are 10lbs I bet you will be very happy with the 120 in it....not the absolute best setup for power a YS 140 Sport or 140L or the DZ is optimal but the 120 is more than adequate.

If its at 11lbs you will not be happy with the outcome...even on 140 sport you might not like it.....And the DZ is the king then.....


Good news is all the 120's and 140's are drop in replacements so you can upgrade later...the 140's are built from the 120's and the 140DZ is an upgraded 140...the DZ has a minor requirement of about an extra 1/4" behind the carb for a fuel fitting that sticks out there but all in all its all the same dimensions....


Good Luck

Troy Newman

GW-inactive

My Feedback: (4)

Or , if it turns into a real porker (pushing 11lbs), wait till Mike Hester has the 3M 170s available.

Camel65

My Feedback: (10)

Wow with the 3M 170 you could pull a banner and fly the Pattern at the same time! :>)

GW- Thanks for posting the great pics of the projects you are doing. It helps my confidence to see the the construction methods before I start my Aries.

Regards
Bill

snsmith

My Feedback: (5)

Thanks for the feedback guys...I'll definitely watch the weight. Ever since my supposed 8lb Laser weighed in over 11lb using the kit materials a few years back, I've been really picky about materials and construction. My forstner bits usually get a workout as well...

GW, I noticed from your construction page that the wood fuse exterior is solid (i.e. no lightening holes). I'm presuming this is for glassing...does the Typhoon need to be glassed for stiffness, durability, etc.? I've done some glass work, but not an entire ship. How about the wings, should they be glassed as well? Thanks again!

robert

How about something like an OS 160, or Irvine 150? Cheap, but still plenty of va va voom.

snsmith

My Feedback: (5)

I have a FZ120 already on the shelf without a home, so it doesn't get much cheaper than that I'm pretty partial to YS engines. If I were to buy an engine, I'd probably go for the YS 140 Sport or maybe an OS 140RX (makes the exhaust plumbing easier with the rear exhaust). Thanks for the suggestion nonetheless!

robert

Yeah, I love the old YS's myself too. I didn't realise you already had the 120. Then yeah, stick that in.

Scott Smith

My Feedback: (4)

I recently wrestled with that question as well in finishing my Patriot. I decided to glass the whole thing. I’m using Gator Feather Lite cloth, thinned West System epoxy (blotting with tp), Polycrylic filler coats (2) and have primed w/System 3 (Nelson) epoxy primer. I have done the wings, ailerons, elevators and rudder (fuselage is a little behind in construction) Total weight increase through primer is 5oz. So far I think I’ve made the right decision.

BTW, if your thinking of using Nelson Paints, order the Paint Trial Kit from System Three. For $15 you get enough primer and white to get you well on your way plus lots of other goodies and documentation.

snsmith

My Feedback: (5)

Hmmm...I might take the plunge and give glassing a try. The glassing I've done before was with water-based polyurethane instead of epoxy, after using sanding sealer on the balsa (to reduce the amount of poly sucked up by the balsa). I've only done this on small wings, any reason why polyurethane won't work for a 2M pattern ship?

Scott Smith

My Feedback: (4)

I went with epoxy to attach the glass only because I was worried about the water based material warping/swelling the balsa. I did not glass the control surface leading edges or aileron bays. Rather I used MinWax sanding sealer followed by a couple coats of the Polycrylic (water-based) and it came out fine.

The Polycrylic seems to work very well as a second coat to fill the cloth. 1st coat of cloth/epoxy added 101 grams. 2 coats of brushed Poly only added 27 grams before sanding, so the stuff is light.

klhoard

My Feedback: (10)

Does anyone know what percent of the water based poly is water?? i.e. how much evaporates??
I have used WBP before with very good results. Also heard about mixing it with talcum powder as a filler.

GW-inactive

My Feedback: (4)

The Typhoon 2000 lends itself nicely to being glassed. The cowl is fiberglass. If you cover the fuse and paint the cowl, and have a seam that shows. It will be ugly. And it will show.

Plus this is such a nice plane, why go to all the trouble of building it, and then put a plastic finish on it. Just glass and paint. Its worth the small weight gain.

Cover the wing and stab. That will get heavy if you paint them. But pretty, it would be.

I will be updatoing the website with some great photos of the new Scott Dunphy designed Titan next week. Now there is a plane to fall in love with.
The European look, but in a balsa fuse. Now thats having your cake and eating it to.
I have pics of Scotts Titan on the page now if anyone wants to see it. Its naked, but soon to be complete.


The polycrylic, I have not heard of this item being used. But I like the weight savings you all speak about. Tell us more about it, and how it works.

Scott Smith

My Feedback: (4)

Polycrylic is the MinWax brand name for water-based urethane available at your local home building center for about $9 a pint. Fast drying, odorless, water clean-up and easy sanding are just some of the attributes. When I finish my project, I'll let you know how it works, but so far I like it!

snsmith

My Feedback: (5)

GW, that sounds like a good idea...I'll consider glassing the fuse and covering the wings and stabs as a compromise position.

Also, water-based poly works great for glassing in my experience, although the glass is admittedly not stuck down quite as well as with epoxy (Z-Poxy is what I have used as well), but is much lighter than epoxy.

However, digging around some more on RCU, I've learned that others have used a brushable lacquer (Deft brand Clear Wood Finish) that apparently does stick very well and is still lighter than epoxy. I'm going to try and find some of this stuff and play with it on some scraps to see how it behaves relative to epoxy and WPU:

http://home.mchsi.com/~jahuntley/help.html#Tip 2

Scott Smith

My Feedback: (4)

All you'll end up compromising is a matched fuse and wings! I looked at it this way:

Ultracote weighs 8.5 gm/sqft. On an 1,110 sq in wing (2,220 sq in of covering), that adds up to 131 grams. I'm through primer on my wings and have added 120g, so while I will end up a couple ounces heavier, I think I'll have a more durable, better looking finish. (That contest balsa dents just looking at it!)

Monokote is lighter, but relaxes and wrinkles over time, so I won't use it anymore.

The other consideration was cost. I figured it would be $100 to cover or $100 to paint. To do a combination of both would be $200 since minimum quantities are enough to do a complete plane. (Granted I wouldn't have to do four colors on the wings, but that would be another compromise!)

GW-inactive

My Feedback: (4)

I like your thinking Scott !

I have never weighed the wings when I decided to do it one way or the other, but if it is 2ozs then I would use the paint as well.
On the typhoon ,built with contest balsa, foam wings,painted fuse,covered wing, etc you can weigh in at 10 lbs. It flies great at 11 lbs. So build a light fuse and wing, glass it all and paint it. 10.5 lbs is achievable I guess. I may look at doing this on the Titan, as it looks like it will build at less then 10 lbs.

Please keep us posted on the weights of the panels throughout your process. I am very interested in the total weight gain when your finished.

Thanks to all for sharing this info.