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ZNLine factory: Enigma Building

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Old 02-21-2003, 03:03 PM
  #126
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Default Re: Then I sanded.

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Originally posted by MarkNovack
After cutting them down I started in with the razor plane and then finished by hand with my big sanding block.

The tips I shall round down tomorrow when I am feeling refreshed.
Hi Mark, do you use any special jig or method to accurately sand the bevels and round edges ? Thanks.
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Old 02-21-2003, 04:49 PM
  #127
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Default In answer to the questions

Mike, the only jig we use to round the wing tips is the eye. It takes time, although certain block techniques can assist in getting is really close. When somebody get a good jig idea, I sure hobe they will share it with everybody. As far as a concave sanding block, they just do not work very well.

Peter, the servo plate is very easy to install. Draw a line where the top edge of the plate will go. Place a thin and fine line of epoxy just below that line. The servo plate should scrape the epoxy along and form a very little fillet on the underside of the plate. Simply fit it in and then use a very sparing fillet of epoxy on the top surface. There is no need to press epoxy into the honeycomb pits on the egde. That will only add a few grams.

We are doing more of the same, but we should be moving on to some further steps over the weekend.

Mark
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Old 02-21-2003, 04:59 PM
  #128
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Default Titebond

Mark, I've closely followed your thread, and I also have some videos that also mention using aliphatic resin glues to glue on the LE, TE, Tips and such.

Now I'm no rocket scientist, but foam is an insulator and the glue next to the edges, near the sheeting will cure fairly quickly, but that seals off the air to the center of the LE (for example) and foam. The water vapor then has to pass through the LE to cure.

Isn't this a problem????
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Old 02-21-2003, 06:34 PM
  #129
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Default ZNLine factory: Enigma Building

George,
Theoretically it sounds like a concern, but I think this is one of those moments where theory and practice differ. I can see no reason to change glues. Besides, I think enough air eeks into the joint to allow a complete cure in a matter of hours. However, I would definately say that adhesive choices for 90% of the building process are up to the individual's choice. There are few steps invloved where one particular glue is so much better than another.

One thing to remember is that we are using the methods practiced here in the factory for almost 10 years. This surely is not the only way to build an F3A airplane. A thin layer of epoxy, polyurathane, white glue, or even oderless CA, are all used by different people.

Outlined is one way to succesfully build a modern composite airplane. These are really easy airplanes to build once a few steps are clarified. In the factory, we try new methods and different ideas. But sometimes the old method works just fine. I may try the polyurathane in the near future. I have used it before (on the Pursuit for instance) and like the way it sands. It is definately a messy glue, though, having the qualities of tree sap when it comes to cleaning the hands.

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Old 02-21-2003, 07:54 PM
  #130
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Default ZNLine factory: Enigma Building

Mark, thanks for the answer. The videos I mentioned are from Bob Noll, a noted quality craftsman. He too used aliphatic resin glue for his LE.

I tried using aliphatic to sheet a set of wings once. I left them weighted for 3 days. They were still un-cured in the majority of the wing. That was the reason I asked.

I guess I should have ironed the sheeting on that wing. It eventually cured enough to keep the sheeting stuck to the foam, but it was over a week later.

If you haven't had any problems using the method you currently use, then it's obviously not a problem. I thought maybe you were using aliphatic instead of epoxy for a specific reason, like sandability.
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Old 02-22-2003, 09:31 AM
  #131
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Default ZNLine factory: Enigma Building

Hello Mark,

You are mentioning the use of Epoxy and Microballoons a lot,
what kind of epoxy do you use, is that the same epoxy you use for laminating the fibreglass on the wings root. If not, what kind/brand of epoxy do you use, and how much microballoons (%) is added.

Thx for the time and explantion, I will be building an Evolis XL later this year, so you can imagine I follow your building closely.

Thx
Winfried de Vries
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Old 02-22-2003, 09:47 AM
  #132
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Default ZNLine factory: Enigma Building

Mark,

My engine pipe cowl on the Alliance I am building has a couple of small creases. Unfortunately they are located over the foam reinforcing. Do you have any suggestions in fixing this. The pan seems a little too soft to use a microballon filler then sand

Thanks again

Peter
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Old 02-22-2003, 12:30 PM
  #133
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Default To answer your questions

Winfried,
We use epoxy resins and hardners from R&G Gmbh. We can order this in small quantities for sale. We order int in 5kg jugs for resin and 1L bottles of hardner. It is a very thin epoxy.
We use there 24 hour hardner (40:100 mix measures on a gram scale), but they have other times of hardner available. In places where we do not want to wait 24 hours, we use NHP 30 epoxy. For mixing microballoons, it's an eyeball measure. A wet mix is the best way for me to describe it. In approximate amounts, it comes out to about 1 rounded teaspoon to 28 grams of epoxy mix When we need it thicker, we use Aerocell, or fibrous cotton to thicken the epoxy. This prevents it from running, giving is a mayonnaise (frittes anyone?) consistency. Fibrous cotton is rarely used as far as I have seen, but it is a great material.

The trick to getting a good mix with the additives is to add small amounts until the consistency is to your liking.

For wing sheeting, it is used straight with no additives.

Peter,
My best suggestion is a light weight body filler if they are any deeper than .5 mm. Less than that, finishing putty would work well. If they are the kind of creases cause by something pressing on the pan and deforming it slightly, then an hour in direct sunlight will work miracles. By the way, these pans are so light that they can easily be dented. It you happen to dent one and it leaves a crease after you puch it out, the sunlight will remove the crease perfectly, even after painting.
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Old 02-24-2003, 08:07 PM
  #134
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Default Continuing onwards

Well hello again. Many pressing projects and deadlines have come and gone in four days, but we are back to Project Enigma (it has a name now).

In the last working post I had knocked the facings down level with the sheeting. The next operation was to even out the tips, a tedious job that looks like a minte's work but takes about five per tip. That done, the next step was to hinge.

I will take a few more postings to show in detail how we hinge our ZN produced airplanes. Again, we are working for customers, so it must be not only perfectly functional, but clean and professional looking. One of these five airplanes, by the way, is going to fly in Poland at the World Championship this August.

OK, enough background. We will be using nylon pinned hinges of 18mm wide. Here is a photo of the tools needed to perform the task of hinging with these hinges.
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Old 02-24-2003, 08:10 PM
  #135
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Default We match up elevator and stab

Tip to tip, set in our holder, and taped on the faces.
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Old 02-24-2003, 08:13 PM
  #136
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Default Next, we place the tip and root hinges

The tip hinge is 2cm from the tip (avoids the tip block), the root is about 1.5 from the root (is near where the horn will be).

We mark our lines with a pencil using this little block as a guide.
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Old 02-24-2003, 08:15 PM
  #137
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Default Now we mark the inside of that slot

Using the hinge, we mark inside. And voila, our root and tip hinge locations are established.
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Old 02-24-2003, 08:26 PM
  #138
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Default Figure out the three center hinges

OK, I forgot to mention five hinges. Here, we measure the distance between the inside edge of the hinges.

In this case it was 290mm. There will be three hinges and four spaces in that 290mm distance. So, pulling out the calculator, I take the 290mm, subtract the 3 hinge widths 3x18=54 so (290-54) and the result is 236. 236 divided by our four spaces between hinges is 59mm. So, each hinge will be placed an additional 5.9cm from the next one.

I'll use this ruler and mark off 59mm, then 18 for the hinge width, then the next 59, etc, and all hing locations will be established.
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Old 02-24-2003, 08:34 PM
  #139
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Default Now we cut slots

This tool is the Tettra slotting guide and as far as I am concerned, there is no better tool than this for properly aligning hinge slots. For you GP SlotMachine junkies, this would help you guide that saw nicely. For the plastic pinned hinges, I think this Dubro slotter is superior, especially with contest grade balsa. Like a hot knife through butter.
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Old 02-24-2003, 08:38 PM
  #140
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Default F3A is in the details.

This next cut is quick and easy but nevertheless important. This cut provides clean ends for our next cut which will be the recess for the pin.
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Old 02-24-2003, 08:44 PM
  #141
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Default ZNLine factory: Enigma Building

Mark, can you provide a better photo of the Tetra cutting guide? Also, if you know of somewhere in the states where i could pick one up that info would be great too. gv
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Old 02-24-2003, 08:45 PM
  #142
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Default And the recess.

Note the tool I am using. This is a flat x-acto blade. The blade width is about .5". It is held at about a 40 degree angle and gently slides slideways from slot end to end and cuts away a little bevel.

This is for the pinned portion of the hinge, but it has two other wonderful side purposes. First, it gives the perfect area in which to tuck the slit in the covering, and secondly, provides a wonderful trough in which to lay the epoxy. Whether one uses a thin epoxy like the stuff we use or a normal 50:50 epowy like Z-poxy or NHP, the epoxy will flow right into the slot. For the thicker brands, a touch of warm air from a heat gun or the spouse hair dryer will help if flow in nicely.
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Old 02-24-2003, 08:49 PM
  #143
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Default The finished slot.

Lots of steps to arrive here.
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Old 02-24-2003, 08:51 PM
  #144
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Default And the elevator and stab.

Please notice the relationship between the slots. It's a first time fit using this foolproof method.
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Old 02-24-2003, 08:55 PM
  #145
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Default Final test

Here is the time to see if our first step of aligning things was well done.

Actually, each slot has about 1mm of play, allowing a perfect tip fit with minimum sloppiness. The glue will stay put in the slot and not flow out the sides of the hinges.
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Old 02-24-2003, 09:01 PM
  #146
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Default The Tettra Hinge Slot Guide

In the USA it is available from Central Hobbies. Tell them Mark Novack from ZN says hello if you call to order one.

Here is a shot of it open wide.
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Old 02-24-2003, 09:02 PM
  #147
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Default ZNLine factory: Enigma Building

Halfway open.
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Old 02-24-2003, 09:06 PM
  #148
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Default And the most important aspect

This guide works so well because it's trapazoidal design centers itself on tapers surfaces perfectly. The slotter rides against the edge of the cross piece. Place the slotter against the edge, press it into the wood and it's done. All the slots take only a minute after all the measurements are made.
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Old 02-27-2003, 04:21 AM
  #149
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Default Re: Continuing onwards

Quote:
Originally posted by MarkNovack
We will be using nylon pinned hinges of 18mm wide.
Hi Mark, may I know what brand of nylon hinges are you using ? Have you tried the Robart point hinges ? What is your opinion and recommendation on the Robart ? I have heard of the pin coming out from Dubro pin hinges.
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Old 02-27-2003, 08:36 AM
  #150
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Default ZNLine factory: Enigma Building

these pic's and post's are making me drool
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