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  1. #226

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    RE: World Models Spot-On 120


    ORIGINAL: riot3d

    I received the next generation Spot-On from World Models a few weeks before my trip to Hong Kong, and started working on the plane right a way. Originally, I was planning on finishing the plane in two weeks time for a test flight. Unfortunately, due to my busy practice schedule, I couldn't get it done before my departure. Since this is an evolution of the first generation Spot-On, I wasn't planning on a complete build thread. For that, you can check out my previous post, and should you have any question, feel free to contact me.

    Although, the model is still under the name Spot-On 120. Realistically, this is actually their "R" version - Revised. Externally, you will not be able to tell much difference. However, if you look closer, you could tell it is slightly smaller than the last one. The fuse and wing span is 40 mm & 20 mm shorter respectively, and the wing area is 0.4 sq dm smaller. The major advantage is you are now able to use a YS 110 with enough power to spare even for the vertical maneuvers. Another reason was, I have expressed to Fai Chan - my good friend and one of the owner of World/ Airborne Models - the lack of suitable engine choice for the original design. If you want to be competitive, you have to find either an older YS 120 size engine, or, use an OS 120 AX. If you use one of the new YS 140 Sport, or, 140L in my case, you will ended up nose heavy. Besides, in Japan, they have a special pattern class dedicated to 110 size plane, and the older 120 was just over the size limit.

    Besides a small size reduction, World has also incorporated a few of my suggestions which include the following:-

    1) A smaller soft mount to save weight
    2) A round shape bottom chin cowl to accommodate the Hatori header and short pipe
    3) Fuel tank has been relocate to the cg area, rather than right behind the firewall
    4) A one piece wooden push rod for the elevator control

    Unfortunately, they are still using the same heavy tail wheel assembly. The same stab adjuster unit, which could stripped very easily with one false move. In addition, the sharp edges on the iron on decoration will still peel easily. Other than that, not much else to complain about. At this point, Fai has not quite work out the pricing yet, but indicated most likely will be the same as the last one. I was really happy with the way the last one turn out, and was more than anxious to get my hands on this one for a test flight.

    Adrian

    Ah here is the root of the problem!

    I was fiddling this afternoon to see how the engine would fit. I did not fit it because I am returning the fuselage to my LHSfor warranty replacement. However I noticed that the soft mounts engine mountingholes are not positioned correctly to allow the DLE 20 to befitted using softmount. The engine hasto rest too far forward to meet the 150mm firewall to propnut dimension for correct cowl location. I ordered a Dubro Anitvibration mount from my LBSat the same time as this appears to be the only recourse now.
    This smaller mount is really a pain because you are now limited completed to a YS4stroke engine if you are too use the supplied hardware!


    So thats another component thats effectively useless to the aircraft unless I use a YSengine (Which I don't).

    The relocation of the Tank to just under the cockpit area also means that a pumped engine is better since its a good ft of fuel line thats required to get from the clunk to the carb. I really wish people would think suggestions through before influencing changes thats really benefits only themselves.

    The result of these changes is that anything I fit to the plane now is pretty much an experiment. I'm thinking the tank location may not be an issue for a Saito 125 or 150 but really I guess I'm pretty committed to the gasser now with a Dubro engine mount even if that means I have knock out the blind nuts and fit anew


    All in all this is turning out to be a poorly manufactured airplane with hardware thats been thought out from a YSperspective. I was hoping to add something positive to this thread but my suggestion would be that if you don't use YSrather look to another aircraft.

    Theres no YS distributor locally so thats not an option for me. My disappointment in this purchase grows.

    Adrian I'm sure you meant well but perhaps it would be in the interests of RC pilots the world over if your suggestions for improvements actually made this plane easier to live with rather more complicated and having to resort to the dremel and hobby knife routine to get things working.

    Oh if I want to relocate the tanke forward I need to hack up a bulkhead and find an alternative location to mount the throttle servo. If I wanted to scratch build I would have.


    2/5 for this one
    Imay bump it up to a 3 if it flies well (assuming I can get a replacement fuse with a stab wing tube glued in correctly



  2. #227

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    RE: World Models Spot-On 120

    Wow!

    I think I'll blame Adrian for all his recommendations on the plane as well... why? Just because... I wanted to use a Saito 180 motor and because of his suggestions I can't even get the motor mount in there.

    Get real TimBle... seriously. If the recommended motor is a 120 (4 stroke)... who really is to blame if one decides to put a totally non-standard motor in the plane? See the specs below:

    http://www.airborne-models.com/html/...?ProductID=114

    -Derek
    Team Futaba

  3. #228
    Jetdesign's Avatar
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    RE: World Models Spot-On 120

    What happened to the Saito 1.50??
    Joe Marri
    Enjoying all things aviation.

  4. #229

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    RE: World Models Spot-On 120

    Tim,

    I'm sorry to hear that the design was not to your satisfaction, & you're having trouble on the build. The original 120 version is an ARF designed with glow engines in mind - YS 120/ 140, OS 120 AX, not for gasoline or electric. However, at least one person that I know of have successfully converted the plane to electric, the revised version is also designed for glow.

    Of course, a gasser is an alternative too. As a matter of fact, if you can get it to work, it will be a very good option. With that in mind, I don't think you're being fair to your following comments:-


    >> I really wish people would think suggestions through before influencing changes thats really benefits only themselves.

    Again, the plane was design for glow engines. In addition, I know of a few people that don't use a pump on their OS, they just fit the tank in line with the carb


    >> All in all this is turning out to be a poorly manufactured airplane with hardware thats been thought out from a YS perspective. I was hoping to add something positive to this
    >> thread but my suggestion would be that if you don't use YS rather look to another aircraft.

    Just because you do not like to use glow, it doesn't mean it's a "poorly manufactured airplane".


    >> Theres no YS distributor locally so thats not an option for me. My disappointment in this purchase grows

    What's that got to do with using or not using a YS? Most of my YS 170 have over 400 flights before requiring service. In addition, most of my pattern friends in Hong Kong also uses YS, and they have to send their engines back to Japan for service. If you're so disappointed on your purchase, may be you should just return the plane & offer the public your own reasonably priced ARF design with hardwares that can accommodate glow, electric & gasser.


    Adrian

  5. #230
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    RE: World Models Spot-On 120


    ORIGINAL: TimBle



    I have ordered myself a Spot On 120R to replace my CMPro Swallow EX 90. I want to power it with a SAito 150(H) which is essentially a bored out 1.20.
    Does anyoone have experience with this engine in this application?
    IS there a performance muffler available for the Saito?

    I will be useing HyperionΒ* DS-20 UMD throughout. If I can find another FMD I 'll use tow of thoe on the ailerons

    Do you foreee any pitfalls Riot 3D?

    Joe Marri
    Enjoying all things aviation.

  6. #231

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    RE: World Models Spot-On 120

    Yeah I was goingto power it with a Saito 1.50.

    But the tank is now mounted on the CG and the throttle servo mounts ahead of the tank. Saito says that engine needs the tank moiunted as close as possible. or a pump is needed.
    I've searched around for successes of a Saito 1.50 fitted with a pump. Seems tidoesnot work well with a pump.
    Locally, Only he 120AX will fit but the Spot ON 120R cannot accomodate a tuned pipe because the tunnel is too short.

    So like I said, without hacking away ply wood from a bulkhead I can't fit the tank in an ideal position for the Saito so I lookeda round at what other engines will fit and a DLE 20 seems to have the right numbers.

    Only issue is with any engine than a YS the supplied mount doesnot allow you to fit the motor with the prop nut at the correct dimension.
    This was surprisng because the other Spot On 120 I've seen has a mount that was supplied that can accomodate a wider engines.

    So I wondered why the backward step on what is supposed to be an upgraded and improved airframe.
    No I found the answer. So my suggestion stands.; if someone has influence over the design, its usually good practice to make sure the changes are step forward not backward.

    I've ordered the parts to get the DLE in there. but I am not impressed with retrograde "improvements" and as a customer who actually spent money on the thing I am entitled to my opinion.

    the Saito arrives today so I want I can fit it but right now its a matter of which engines results in the least butchering of what is otherwise a rather decent airframe... save the covering , skew horizonal stab joiners, lose fitting incidence adjusting pin, cracked belly pan and too small engine mount.

    All fixable of course but at the price this thing should have been sorted or had a recommendation on the box that indicates its designed for a YS engine. So forgive me for feeling cheated.

    or Maybe World Models should supply all the parts in the box that they intend you to use in this ARF, engine incl. Am I being unreasonable? NO  This thread serves to guide you along  the assemble and nowhere here does it mention that other engines are nigh impossible to fit using the supplied hardware.

    BTW 1.20ci = 20cc... and the DLE is a drop in replacement for a 1.20 to 1.40 4 stroke and uses the mountin dimensions of a similarly sized beam mount engine. Its not stand off mounted.

  7. #232

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    RE: World Models Spot-On 120

    Hi guys, I’ve been flying my Spot On 120 for a couple of months, and I think that for the price is an excellent acquisition. I’m using an OS 120 AX, with a Perry oscillating pump and Omega 15% nitro, with great performance. I’m not an experimented flyer and I have been practicing the Sportsman sequence, and in my first contest I got the second place.
    Now after the crash of my Focus Sport, that had a DLE 20, in it, I’m thinking on a second Spot On 120, and put the DLE 20 on it. I know I will have issues because when they redesigned the Spot On 120 the DLE was not in the market, but I think the affordable fuel and the power and reliability of the engine is worth the effort.

    Happy Landings and enjoy the life
    “I didn't crawl my way up to the top of the food chain just to eat vegetables"

  8. #233

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    RE: World Models Spot-On 120

    Pilomeza,

    Lets share note on the SpotOn 120 with DLE20.

    My local distributor is sending me a new fuselage So I can begin the work to build this bird.
    I plan to use a Dubro Anti vibrationmont to save the firewal but will also reinforce it withfibreglass from the inside.
    Initial scouting indicates that the the area just behind the firewal is ideal to mount the CDI. I considered mounting it in the landing gear area but thought vibration would be an issue.

    I will likely go for a manual choke to save on weight.

    I will keep he 450cc tank, whosays I have to fill it completely.

    The throttle control rod arrangement looksto be tricky but nce I get the replacement fuse I can engineer a solution here.
    Not sure what you said or yours but I paid the equivalent of $500 so yeah I'm not too impressed but I have the plane so will make the most of it.

  9. #234

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    RE: World Models Spot-On 120

    Pilomeza,

    Lets share note on the SpotOn 120 with DLE20.

    My local distributor is sending me a new fuselage So I can begin the work to build this bird.
    I plan to use a Dubro Anti vibrationmont to save the firewal but will also reinforce it withfibreglass from the inside.
    Initial scouting indicates that the the area just behind the firewal is ideal to mount the CDI. I considered mounting it in the landing gear area but thought vibration would be an issue.

    I will likely go for a manual choke to save on weight.

    I will keep he 450cc tank, whosays I have to fill it completely.

    The throttle control rod arrangement looksto be tricky but nce I get the replacement fuse I can engineer a solution here.
    Not sure what you said or yours but I paid the equivalent of $500 so yeah I'm not too impressed but I have the plane so will make the most of it.

  10. #235

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    RE: World Models Spot-On 120

    Update, Original engine mount can work but requires some modification for either Saito 150 or DLE 20.
    Seems the mount is the .90 to 1.20 size mount....for a 1.20to 1.40 size airframe....***?!

    Anyway I've raised the issue with my local supplier and proposed some solutions for them which they will take up with the factory.

    The engine mount is 15mm too short so I'm having a few standoffs turned up. It should work just fine thereafter.
    The alternative is to manufacture to ply wood or firm rubber strips 15mm thick and use those as standoffs.
    I want to keep weight as low as possible but I think I have some solutions for many things.

    New fuselage arrives tomorrow.

  11. #236

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    RE: World Models Spot-On 120

    I received my Spot On 120 R recently; Seems fairly well built and the covering is good at least to begin with.
    I have noticed a defect with the elevator push rod that was supplied with mine. It was round balsa with the black metal ends recessed in the ends and them a light glassing to retain and strengthen the ends.
    Had the plane assembled and was setting the throws when noticed a play in the elevators. On checking, found that both ends were loose or working loose in the balsa; perhaps not the best of engineering??
    I have replaced the complete assembly. BTW "seemed very solid" or I would not have even considered it at start.
    Any one else receiving the balsa pushrod version might want to consider replacing also??[&o]

    Mel

  12. #237

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    RE: World Models Spot-On 120

    HI Mel,

    I had the same issue and simply soaked the ends of the rod with thin CA. That sorted out the problem. I agree, not the best engineering.


    My local distributor has replaced my defective fuselage. so I've progressed the assembly quite significantly. I've also not glue the rear access ahtch in place just incase I need to replace the push rod arrangement. but it seems to be working just fine now.

    The tank is now mounted on a 20mm thick foam pad because if mounted the way the manual requires it it would be significantly higher than the carb. Not a concern for me running a DLE 20 but it may be for you. I simply mounted mine in such a way that a  engine retrofit would be simple.


    In response to riot3d.
    Yes perhaps I was a bit unfair but this ARF has some  issues that have not been thought through.

    Most arf's provide the space to tailor the engine installation to the needs of the end user. This one does not. theres a very narrow window to work with and I feel thats poor engineering.
    For instance since the arf is supplied with a specialised engine mount, why not advise the purchaser which engines are drop and which require a different set up. My solution is for TWM to simply provide nylon stand off spacers to allow the different engines to fit correctly in the engine bay. For the DLE I had 15mmlong  x 20mm d spacers made up. Engine now fits using the supplied mount.

    The throttle servo tray is another case of a good idea that was poorly executed. Its too flimsy. It needs support so I have aded try stock and a brace. Even with a 4stroke this tray with a servo mounted is going to vibrate and eventually fail.

    This arf has fantastic potential. Its a awesome looking Pattern plane and hopefully it flies well but it's too expensive for the issues it brings to the table. Granted this forum thread serves as a great reference but for the money I'd advise a potential buyer to look for something else until TWM gets this ARF to a std that commands the price premium.

  13. #238

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    RE: World Models Spot-On 120

    Well, patience is running low at the moment.

    This morning I reached the next milestone in the buid, setting up the control throws, centering the controls etc.
    While setting up the high rates and maximum deflection i heard a strange sound and when I released the controls the right elevator did not centre. I thuhg i had bent the cntrol rod but everything checked out.
    Then I discovered that the clevis had moved on the rod.. thread stripped?

    No nothing so normal, the thread was not properly rolled on to the 1.8mm steel rod!!!!

    So to recap, since I bought this plane;

    - the Fuselage has been replaced because the rear stabiliser support tube was bonded in crooked. The replacement is much better but still not right
    - The supplied  engine mount is actually for a .90size glow engine (it's their smaller .90-120 mount as opposed to their 1.20 to 1.40 size mount which this arf is spec'd to require.
    - The Elevator control rod thread has not been properly rolled.
    - The Aileron servos' don't really fit properly in their well's in the wings. I have two bumps where the bottom of the servo is impacting the top skin of the wing. Does the manual call for low profile servo's? No, Does any company make low profile std servo's?
    - The covering has pulled off in places by simply applying medium heat from the covering iron!

    Its a good looking aircraft but it is WAY OVER PRICED for the dirt poor quality. This plane is ARF is complete and utter rip off.

    I am now starting to wonder if the aluminium wing joiner is in place in the main wing since the wing is supplied joined. I don't trust TWM and this is the last ARF I will buy from their stable.
    If I require another pattern plane I'd rather look to Sebart or CA Models Matrix or even one of the Oxai 1.10 size ARF's (pricey), anything but the absolute trash that The W0rld Models has produced with the Spot On 1.20.

    Before I fly this thing I'm calling my insurance company...


  14. #239
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    RE: World Models Spot-On 120

    TimBle

    I built a Spot On for a friend, put an OS 120AX in it and luckily didn't experience any of the problems you are describing. And I used all the supplied hardware. Granted, it probably isn't hardware I would typically buy, but it worked fine. I did pull test every connection, link, etc, but that is just my way of building. I have had the 'best' fail so I give it every chance to fail on the workbench. I also flew the plane and it flew very well. It is still in one piece so it didn't self destruct in the air. A bad landing in some thick grass by my friend did break the landing gear plate but it was easily repaired. Most ARFs have similar problems with the landing gear structure, even Sebart and Oxai. Witnessed plenty of them being ripped out, too.

    BTW, the plane is not spec'd for a 140 sized engine, the website clearly says 120 sized engine, the motor mount supplied seems appropriate to me. If someone wants to go another route, I think the manufacturer was pretty clear about what size motor is was designed for, so you pays your money and takes your chances if you want to go with some other engine solution. Your suggestion that the model should be designed for any combination of engine, motor, rubber band, squirrel power seems a bit over the top. I would hate to pay the extra $$$ for a manufacture to design and supply all hardware required for 'all' the solutions. The only major complaint I hear about the Spot On is the sharp tips of the trim colors loose their 'stick' and peel up. A quick brush of clear polyurethane over the tips fixes that problem but you have to get to it quickly.

    I am sorry you have had bad luck with your Spot On and I can understand your frustration to 'some' extent. However, continued bashing after you take each step is accomplishing nothing. You stated your problem, repeated your problem and continue to repeat your problem. You even take pot shots at Riot3D after he tried to suggest solutions. I fly with Riot3D. He is a stand up guy and went to a lot of effort to write a 'build thread' to try and help people. During the build, he even suggested other ways of doing things, suggested changes for the factory and even followed up with the manufacturer to see if they were listening. So, you may be unhappy, but enough is enough. Contact your LHS, the distributor, the manufacturer and see if you can get satisfaction that way. Attacks like this in the discussion groups usually backfire on the author, there are plenty of examples of that here in the past.

    I hope the Spot On works for you when you get it in the air. It does fly very well. I know multiple people it has worked well for and I hopefully you will be one of those.

    Woodie
    Team Acme LG
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    There is nothing so simple it can't be messed up by someone....

  15. #240

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    RE: World Models Spot-On 120

    woodie,The instruction manual for the 120R clearly states in bold that the Spot On is designed for 1.20 to 1.40 4 stroke engines. Neither the Saito 125, ASP120 or any other 1.20 cu.in 4stroke fits in without adding spacers behind the engine mount. Even the blind nuts are spaced for the mounting of a .90 2 stroke. The 1.20AX fits? Perhaps it has a similar cranks side to the .90.

  16. #241

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    RE: World Models Spot-On 120

    TimBle,

    My Dad and Ihave build many planes over the last 20+years, he has probly 50+years of building a variety of planes.NEVERhave ANYONEof those kits or ARF's he or Ihave built have just 'snapped' together without some sort of modifications or refabrication.

    Just one other point for you TimBle... I have returned to the hobby last year after being away for about 10 or so years, and you know what is hard to come by these days? AIRPLANEKITS!

    Iam starting to wonder if maybe its people like you that have discouraged all the good people out there that use to produce good quality kits. The building of an airplane is not just a hobby, but a CRAFT. Do you understand what that means?

    Honestly, there is no ARF out there in this world that would meet your expectations. The Spot-On had clearly stated in the Specs what it was designed for. You deviated from the design, ran into complications (where anyone would!) and kick your feet and bash the company.

    Thanks a lot.

    My Dad bought the Spot-On 120 R, it is ready to fly. There were a few little things that we had to go through to complete thing, like replace the BALSA wood dowl Elevator pushrod (why.. why did you guys use BALSA wood for an elevator pushrod??), had to order low profile aileron servo's, had to re-fit the cowl from designated mounting, back 10 mm to fit the YS 110 properly (the crankshaft seems shorter on this engine than the 120/140's), and a couple other things i cant recall, but trivial.

    ORDINARYSTUFF!

    All in All, very good kit. Thank you, we expect to get a maiden flight when the rain stops here... someday...

  17. #242

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    RE: World Models Spot-On 120

    amazinghow you assume that I have never assembled a kit or scratch built a plane.  I giuess you base that assumption on  my join date. It seems many think that life in the model aviation hobby starts at the day you join RCU. Fu%&ing arrogance.
    I'm fairly new to Rc but 25yrs ago I was scratch building free flight planes and control line planes so yeah I think I have a bit of experience in what a quality plane should look or feel like.

    You've pointed out some work arounds that should not be needed.

    The cowl moved 10mm further aft? Why is that necessary when the reason for the problem is that it is supplied with the wrong mount in order to save weight.

    The engine I fitted is a drop in replacement for a 4stroke glow. Do you know what a drop in replacement is? It means the same width, mounting requirements and similar dimensions.
    If you read my posts you will see that I trial fitted some 4 stroke engines this plane is "designed" for and they don't fit without moving the whole engine mount forward.

    It seems to me that the RC hobby has become complacent with substandard ARF's at high prices.

    I for one would love to scratch build again  or even assemble kits but having only 1 hour each evening I can allocate to the hobby means it will take the better part of one year to scratch build a decent pattern plane. So ARF's are a god send but I expect to get what I paid for. The SPot On is just substandard. Sure it needs lots of work but why should it? its an ARF (Almost ready to FLy). Seems that name should be changed to Almost Ready to Fix

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    RE: World Models Spot-On 120

    Inever even looked at your join date, nor thought of your building experience.. sorry to let you down on the Fu%&ing arrogance, or lack of.

    My point was that you are blaming and bashing the manufacturer for things that you are to blame for. period. And thats ridiculous.

    Again, there are too few people out there willing to produce a kit at all, let alone a good one. Your attitude just sucks.

    Iunderstand the cost involved, and wouldnt even chime in here had my Dad not bought and built one as well. So Iknow first hand what the kit is about.

    Your bashing the company for poor design just doesnt make sense on most of your complaints. Plain and simple, agree or not.. just my opinion.
    (Although that said, whoever decided to go with the BALSA WOODDowel elevator pushrod... thats weak, and there will be failures to come, sorry to say)

    If Ihad the money Iwould buy one myself right now.. good looking plane, at least a great potential backup pattern plane.. Ihope the kit is at least as good if/when ican afford one.

    Hope it all works out for you in the end though, TimBle.

  19. #244

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    RE: World Models Spot-On 120

    LOL. My attitude sucks because a manufacturer produces a substandard ARF at a top dolar price point and I complain about it.

    Yes I guess you're absolutely correct. Its my fault I bought it after downloading the manual and thinking that it should be a good quality build and that TWMhas a superb reputation for quality
    Its my fault the factory supplies the incorrect engine mount (which I made to work through having parts manufactured)
    Its my fault I caught the defective Horizontal tube being glued in skew on a Pattern plane. Its also my fault that it was produced incorrectly because the people at the factory are too busy reading about my rant here on the RCU.
    Its my fault The manual does not specify low profile aileron servo's Heck I should have spotted that one from the No Res prics used in the manual. Stupid me. Not sure where i am going to find low profile Std digital servo's around here there...... Oh wait theres Tower and another 3 week wait because the manual does not provide correct information.
    Its also my fault the covering is shyte because again, I've been distracting the factory workers from their real job!! Sorry factory workers, my bad.

    Look mate, I'm not blaming my LBSor the local distributor. Bot have been super accomodating and I'm willing to concede this ARFwas produced late on a Friday afternoon and someone slipped up. Its not the kind of quality I expect from TWM. My expectations of their ARF's is much higher and this one falls short And thats the point. Expectations!

    Ipaid top dollar for this ARF, Iexpect top dollar kit. I've spoken with the distrbutor in my area and they're super people and have dealt with the isues I experienced. If they had another brand of ARFI'd opt for that brand just so that I could still deal with them. They're that good.
    But this ARF falls way short of what I expect TWM to be producing.
    Like I said, I've fixed the issues I've encountered with the plane. But how many issues am I supposed to accept with a smile on my face before feeling shortchanged?

    Blaming me for the demise of kits?!!Thats laughable.

    Imagine you opened a box to new Shimano Torsa 20 Fishing reel and then found out the ratchet is made of cheese. then the ratchet handle comes off in your hand, then the drum seizes. You going to blame yourself because you didn't broach the gear wheels yourself?

    Forums like this exist for people to discuss products, learn and or share knowledge. Its not an advertising website where only the air of positivity prevails. If you want that go to a Baptist Church.
    Now I've feed the complain through to the distributor and I will communicate what comes of it. I'm hoping that mines called Friday Afternoon

  20. #245

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    RE: World Models Spot-On 120


    ORIGINAL: riot3d

    I received the next generation Spot-On from World Models a few weeks before my trip to Hong Kong, and started working on the plane right a way. Originally, I was planning on finishing the plane in two weeks time for a test flight. Unfortunately, due to my busy practice schedule, I couldn't get it done before my departure. Since this is an evolution of the first generation Spot-On, I wasn't planning on a complete build thread. For that, you can check out my previous post, and should you have any question, feel free to contact me.

    Although, the model is still under the name Spot-On 120. Realistically, this is actually their ''R'' version - Revised. Externally, you will not be able to tell much difference. However, if you look closer, you could tell it is slightly smaller than the last one. The fuse and wing span is 40 mm & 20 mm shorter respectively, and the wing area is 0.4 sq dm smaller. The major advantage is you are now able to use a YS 110 with enough power to spare even for the vertical maneuvers. Another reason was, I have expressed to Fai Chan - my good friend and one of the owner of World/ Airborne Models - the lack of suitable engine choice for the original design. If you want to be competitive, you have to find either an older YS 120 size engine, or, use an OS 120 AX. If you use one of the new YS 140 Sport, or, 140L in my case, you will ended up nose heavy. Besides, in Japan, they have a special pattern class dedicated to 110 size plane, and the older 120 was just over the size limit.

    Besides a small size reduction, World has also incorporated a few of my suggestions which include the following:-

    1) A smaller soft mount to save weight
    2) A round shape bottom chin cowl to accommodate the Hatori header and short pipe
    3) Fuel tank has been relocate to the cg area, rather than right behind the firewall
    4) A one piece wooden push rod for the elevator control

    Unfortunately, they are still using the same heavy tail wheel assembly. The same stab adjuster unit, which could stripped very easily with one false move. In addition, the sharp edges on the iron on decoration will still peel easily. Other than that, not much else to complain about. At this point, Fai has not quite work out the pricing yet, but indicated most likely will be the same as the last one. I was really happy with the way the last one turn out, and was more than anxious to get my hands on this one for a test flight.

    Adrian
    Hi Adrian:
    I just want to thank you for have initiated this thread, and I believe the most of us are happy with the Spot On 120 and the modifications made after your suggestions.
    I had the intention to install a DLE 20 in mine, because I want to keep the fuel tank in the CG location, and the OS 120 AX is not giving me the power I expected, because the fuel tank position., but I think the DLE is not the best choice of engine for a pattern plane, because of the amount of sound, and the narrow fuselage of a pattern plane does not allow a good place to install the ignition system.
    For that reason my son installed for me the new YS 115, and… What a combination!!!!. Is like a match made in heaven. I love that.
    Thanks again and Happy Landings



    “I didn't crawl my way up to the top of the food chain just to eat vegetables"

  21. #246

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    RE: World Models Spot-On 120


    ORIGINAL: TimBle

    LOL. My attitude sucks because a manufacturer produces a substandard ARF at a top dolar price point and I complain about it.

    Yes I guess you're absolutely correct. Its my fault I bought it after downloading the manual and thinking that it should be a good quality build and that TWMhas a superb reputation for quality
    Its my fault the factory supplies the incorrect engine mount (which I made to work through having parts manufactured)
    Its my fault I caught the defective Horizontal tube being glued in skew on a Pattern plane. Its also my fault that it was produced incorrectly because the people at the factory are too busy reading about my rant here on the RCU.
    Its my fault The manual does not specify low profile aileron servo's Heck I should have spotted that one from the No Res prics used in the manual. Stupid me. Not sure where i am going to find low profile Std digital servo's around here there...... Oh wait theres Tower and another 3 week wait because the manual does not provide correct information.
    Its also my fault the covering is shyte because again, I've been distracting the factory workers from their real job!! Sorry factory workers, my bad.

    Look mate, I'm not blaming my LBSor the local distributor. Bot have been super accomodating and I'm willing to concede this ARFwas produced late on a Friday afternoon and someone slipped up. Its not the kind of quality I expect from TWM. My expectations of their ARF's is much higher and this one falls short And thats the point. Expectations!

    Ipaid top dollar for this ARF, Iexpect top dollar kit. I've spoken with the distrbutor in my area and they're super people and have dealt with the isues I experienced. If they had another brand of ARFI'd opt for that brand just so that I could still deal with them. They're that good.
    But this ARF falls way short of what I expect TWM to be producing.
    Like I said, I've fixed the issues I've encountered with the plane. But how many issues am I supposed to accept with a smile on my face before feeling shortchanged?

    Blaming me for the demise of kits?!!Thats laughable.

    Imagine you opened a box to new Shimano Torsa 20 Fishing reel and then found out the ratchet is made of cheese. then the ratchet handle comes off in your hand, then the drum seizes. You going to blame yourself because you didn't broach the gear wheels yourself?

    Forums like this exist for people to discuss products, learn and or share knowledge. Its not an advertising website where only the air of positivity prevails. If you want that go to a Baptist Church.
    Now I've feed the complain through to the distributor and I will communicate what comes of it. I'm hoping that mines called Friday Afternoon

    Well, damn man, when you put it like that... :-/
    Iguess you just got a string of bad luck on that one.
    Hopefully it will work in the end with a great flying plane.

  22. #247

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    RE: World Models Spot-On 120

    Hi Pilomeza,

    Glad to know the plane works out for you, wishing you many more happy landings.

    Adrian



  23. #248

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    RE: World Models Spot-On 120

    actually the DLE fits like a glove. Now that I have spaced the engine mount the cowl falls into position nicely as does the belly pan. Cdi is installed up front near the engine and flight battery is a flat shape 1600mA.HR Hyperion LiFePO4 pack strapped to the bottom of the 12oz Dubro fuel tank. I have a smart fly optic kill switch in there as well. No issues fitting any of those. The side dump muffler is a bit too wide and perhaps too noisy but that can be fixed with wrap around or canister and flex header from the DLEΒ*30. Pics of my set up to follow

  24. #249

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    RE: World Models Spot-On 120

    ok so latest update. Last night I sorted out the balance. No way I could get it to balance at 130mm per the manual. Whipped out the cg calculator. I selected 15% static margin and set up the wing elevator and thrust as per BrIan Herbert triangulation trim method. The CG ended up at 160mm from the LE but the NPis at 24.24 cm so I was well within the limit.
    Then Idiscovered the rudder was warped. Out came the iron and I sorted that in 20min. STill not 100% right but it does not seem to have much impact on the flight performance.Another one for TWM to sort out...

    Maiden flight was at 13h07 today. I left the cowl and belly pan off as I wanted theengine to get as muchcooling as possible on the first flight. Its still at factory setting anddeadstick could have been apossibility so risking damage to those parts was senseless. TheDLE 20cc flicked into life easy peasy. Checked out controls warmed the engine and started the take off roll. I used the runway but the DLE lifted the Spot On off easy. In fact I had to hold her on the runway for all but 10m of therollaout.
    FIrst circuit I justchecked thetrims. She needed a bitof left trim, 3 clicks and thats was it. No elevator orrudder trim required. I flew some figure8's and basic circuits aaround 1/4 throttle whichis around 4000rpm on the DLE. I need to work on that throttle curve. Ipulled one upline and even at half throttle she just kept on going up, up and away.Throttled back into a stall turnand checked the downline.Dead straight.No pullto canpoy,no pull to gear, Dead straight. No mixes required

    Happy as a pig in **** Ibrought her in on finals25min later she landed perfectly, three wheels down. Tracks straight and true level and on vertical up and down. Reacts to rudder predicatably bothright side up, inverted and on knife edge.Perfect maiden flight. A really good pattern plane set up very well (if Ihave to say so myself). This one I can work with.

    One of the solutions I am going to propose to TWMis to leave the blind nuts out. of the firewall. They should rather mark the firewall with hole locations for various engines and motors that would work with the ARF. Leave the drilling up to the builder.
    Also they should supply nylon spacers for the engine mount. The following will allow engine thrust line adjustment.
    15mm (x20mm OD for all)
    16mm
    17mm
    18mm
    These are cost effective and can be moulded or turned on masse in a machine shop. That will sort out the engine mount issue.
    Another excellent idea would be for them to actualy build one of these and offer spacer kits for various engine options. The builder can then order these parts when they order the ARF and know whic engine they want to fit.

    The rear horizontal stab incidence adjuster needs to have to adjuster bar glued in place permanently. They should also check the jigs they use for the stab wing tube joiner.

    A major benefit to any builders of this ARFwould be if the plywood plate ahead of the landing plate is made removable and the belly pann has a quickrelease system to remove itquickly aswell.this would make it easier for electric conversion and to fit CDI if you opt for a gasser like Idid. Its night time now so I'll take some pics tomorrow and post as a record for a SPot ONwith a DLE20 gasser.

    It certainly flies really well so thank you very much to Riot, Woodie and a few others who encouraged me to stick with it. She came close to the trash can...

    So I'll revise my Don't touch with a barge pole assessment to a4 thumbs up. Like I said, fantastic potential but just not given the due consideration at the design phase that it deserves.

  25. #250
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    RE: World Models Spot-On 120

    Very glad the Spot On flew well for you. Here's wishing you many many successful flights.

    Woodie
    Team Acme LG
    Team Blenderm
    There is nothing so simple it can't be messed up by someone....


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