robert

Hi,
As there are so, many Widebody 60's floating around, I thought that it would be a good idea to set up a thread to see what equipment to use.
I have absolutely no idea what to use.
For engine, my mind is torn between the OS 91 FX, the YS 91 heli engine, and the 110 four banger. I presume that the 110 would be the most powerful, but it is fairly expensive. The Saito 100 is around the same price I think, so it really isn't an option. I have alot of weight loosing tips, thanks to 'Patternflyer', and I think that 6.3 pounds would be reachable with a bit of help.

As for radio gear, again, no idea. I did over budget for my Funtana, so I do have the option of nice servos. I would like to go with digi servos for two reasons.
1. To build up a 'stock pile', so that if any on the Funtana or my future F3A ship need to be sent away, I would still have some to put in them. This would mean 9151 on rudder and elevator, and 9150 on the ailerons.
2. I would like to buy the servos now, so that whenever I get my mits on an F3A kit, I won't have to buy new servos adding to the already huge cost. However, there is a good chance that there will be newer and better servos out by the time I am ready for it.
The other option is analogue. I think that 9202s, or 9303s would be the best here, and am leaning towards the 9303s.

The linkages is another area that I don't have a clue with what to use. I am leaning towards the pull pull setup on the elevator like I saw on Marcelos. It was nice and fast, and used one servo. I have a good idea on how to set it up properly.

So, what is everyone using, and what advice do you have. Its either very expensive, with a pattern ship style set up, or a more sport set up.
Thanks,
Robert.

mikehannah

Robert
Where did you get your Widebody 60 from.
Is there anyone this side of the Atlantic importing them?

Mike

baronbrian

My Feedback: (13)

I know for a fact that I am usinfg a O.S. 91 FX for power, but have not decided on the muffler- Standard,pitts or tuned muffler. I am going to install 4 aileron sevros, via 7 channel sailplane. JR Std BB for the wing flaps, Hitec 605BB for the ailerons. the tail will be pull-pull for both, with hitec digital 5625's. All this equipment is sitting on the bench allready. A 600 or 700 pack will be used to save weight, and a JR 700 reciever.
Robert, I am unsure of a pullpull setup for the tail. Could you describe Macello's setup? also your plans of weight savings.
thanks

robert

Wouldn't it be better to put the same type of servos in the ailerons and flaps, so that in 3D mode, they move at the same speed.....
I really like the idea of the 91 FX for simplicity terms, and keep the plane 'sporty', but the 110 is such a perfect size, that I have no idea.

What are you thinking in terms of equipment? Maybe Mark Novack could give us a desription on the linkages given in the Synergy 90? Please?
Mike, I got my Widebody while I was over in Argentina, and brought it home with me. However, if you give me your e-mail, (e-mail me or PM if you want), I will put you in touch with their new rep in Spain. I think that Probuild MIGHT be importing them, but in a while.

quist

My Feedback: (198)

I am using a YS 91 with futaba 9202's. I had to move the battery behind the canopy to balance the plane. My wb 60 came in at 7 lb 4oz. dry. I did nothing to lighten the plane. I think the OS 91 fx would be the better engine choice. You would be under 7 lb and it would balance better.

The plane flies very straight be it pulls to the canopy on the vertical up lines. I have removed some of the problems on the upline with engine thrust but I need alittle more.

With those large ailerons you can make it roll as fast as realfight g2.

I did use the MK type elevator bellcrank also. I did not feel up to all the pull pull lines.

robert

Bellcrank, now there is an option. Did you have any complications setting it up? A pull pull with that would be easier to do.

PatternFlyer

My Feedback: (182)

There are people thinking about using 4 servos in wing. I've been thinking about this for the last couple of days not just for Widebody, but also in my other planes.

Well, I don't have the kit yet, but based on what I heard and seen from some pictures.

If I use 4 servos, I would use same servos.
Cut the sheeted wing for aileron-flap.
It's gotta be near full length and wide.
Not sure if I am going to taper the cut. If I taper the cut, I will measure the area of aileron-flap and find the point where the area of two sides are equal.

This way, the servos will be moving almost identical area of ailerons and flaps.

Use flaps for 3D mode.
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For engine, I asked around several US based stores (Heli-Proz, Heli-world). Nobody has 91ST in stock, and have different estimated arrival dates. HeliProz told me about 2 weeks and costs $310.00 Heli-World told me about a month and costs $300.00

While looking for engine, I came around OS engines 91SX-H ($240.00 at Tower) 91FX. They are cheaper except the 91SX-H C-spec.
With a regulating pump, OS engines can be used also. I just sold my Cline regulator that I shouldn't have.

I am not sure if I should wait until 91ST available. I have to work more to fit this engine than others.

YS 110 is also good, but waiting until summer to get one in US?
4-stroke also has lots of vibration.
Also, it is pretty heavier than any of 91 2-strokes, price maybe well above $300.00 in US. I'm just not sure.

Since all the engines above are capable of pulling 7 pounds plane out of hover, I may go with cheapest way.

Another thing to add when using 2-stroke engine. The muffler (tuned pipe).
91FX (550grams) does not need any extra, but weighs 688.9 grams with muffler. That is about 2oz lighter than YS91/110 FZ w/ muffler.

I actually don't like the stock muffler, so I may get a wrap around header from Karl Mueller in Canada (about $40 ??) and use a carbon tuned pipe. (weighs around 75 ~ 85 grams)
I may end up with almost equal weight of 91FX w/muffler and more power from tuned pipe. The cost? Way more!!
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I already have servos. I bought these for JR Propo Explorer V90 which I still have in box.

If I use 4-servos for wing, I have to get two more 4131s. I may use JR 3121 mini servos if they can handle the load and to keep the weight down.
For rudder and elevator, I have 8411SA. Throttle will be a micro servo.

Pull-Pull for rudder. MK Bellcrank for elevator. Carbon fiber pushrods, MK ballbearing clevis and horns.
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For the actual plane.
I may build another fuse with balsa, carbon, and nomex.
The kit is good, so I can also build the fuse stock and add a little support using carbon, and replace the servo tray with nomex or balsa carbon laminate.

Replacing the landing gear with carbon is also a good idea to lower weight.

Glass canopy reduce the weight also.
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That's all I thought so far. All I have to is to decide which way to go with. I actually have YS61LSRE and Hanno Special laying around doing nothing, so I can also use either one of these engines to save money.

I gotta stop writing a long post.

JimTrainor

hmmm... I need to some enlightening in regards to the use of flaps on a pattern plan. This is the first I have read of using flaps. What is the advantage?

Thanks!

robert

He wanted a plane that could perform a bit better on F3A, so he split the ailerons into two. This means that you only need the outer ones for F3A, giving it better performance in F3A. For 3D, you can mix in the inner flaps to teh ailerons, giving a better performance.

PatternFlyer

My Feedback: (182)

Robert,
What size spinner do I need on the Widebody 60?
I just got an OS 91SX-H w/ perry regulating pump for this (paid $160.00). I gave up on YS91ST because of the cost and need of another 120 size engine.

baronbrian

My Feedback: (13)

yea, That is what I have planned, The inner surfaces should never see competition. As for the servos, I knew I would raise a few eyebrows when I suggested differnt inside vs out. well, I plan on the ailerons being slightly larger than the flaps, and because the flaps are closer to the center, they will have far less forced placed on them in a roll at speed. so my choice of servos is such that about the same amount of servo torque/flight load per surface will be close to the same. This means the wing surfaces will be comparably powered. Now I know you guys are concerned with the differnce in speed- well if the inner ailerons are for 3D, then they will only be used at low airspeed, meaning that the prop blast will be the main flow, and the ailerons will not have but only a little air over them. So who cares if they are different speeds? they really wount be used together. Besides, a 7 lb. plane surely could get by with 4 std. servos, so upgrading the outter servos shouldnt be frowned on

JimTrainor

Is the split aileron approach common? What advantage does that have over simply limiting the throw of the full span aileron? It's and interesting approach. My experience is rather limited so I'm quite curious about this.

Thanks!

baronbrian

My Feedback: (13)

My goal is to get greater resoulution for the ailerons. on the plane they are HUGE and I am trying to take a little sensitivity out of the roll axis, and since I am doing that, I figured I might as well benifit from the crow feature that sailplanes use, as well as maintaining it's 3D ability. In the widebody 60 thread on the first page you can read into this further.

JimTrainor

I'll look at the other thread. Thanks.

robert

I've decided. 9202's all around, (maybe 9302s in the tail cost permiting) and a YS 91 two stroke heli engine.

robert

Oh for PatternFlyer, the spinner given to me is 57mm or 2 2/8' or so.

PatternFlyer

My Feedback: (182)

Robert,
Thanks!!
57 mm? that is 2.25". really small for a 60/90 size plane.
Gotta sell a few spinners.

baronbrian

My Feedback: (13)

I am thinking that 2 hitec 5475 digi's(60 oz each, .23 sec) for the elevator instead of a 5625, in hopes of making the dual pull-pull easier to set-up. a liitle heavier this way- any thoughts? How would you set up the dual pull-pull with one servo? I have never don this but have been brainstorming a lot lately. IT Came YESTERDAY!!!!!

esport33

My Feedback: (2)

dual wing servo set-up... hmmm, I'll be using just one on each of mine with a good hitec 5 pole servo. I'm looking for a nice alloy pull-pull wheel for the rudder and will use the mk bell crank for elevator. anyone know who if anyone makes an aluminum wheel for hitec? got the bolly gear ordered today and am still in search for a good set of wheels for it. do I need a menz cut on the spinner to get a 15" prop to clear? what are you guy's using for a spinner that takes the larger props on an os 91...and prop size? I'm looking to just use this for practice but it should make for a semi-competitive machine even with one servo per wing I think. still thinking....

esport33

My Feedback: (2)

patternflyer, have an extra spinner for the wb? haha... let me know. what about the engine mount? anyone going to use a nose ring on the os 91?

PatternFlyer

My Feedback: (182)

esport33,

I got a few of 2.5 and FAI2.75LBs and only one 2.25" std spinner that I've been using for about 5 years. I just don't like cut out lots of aluminium from that 2.25 so gotta sell a few of 2.5" to get an Ultimate type 2.25 120cut and grind a little.

I will just use simple plastic mount with my 91SX-H (exactly same with 91FX except the cylinder linder) with standard carb.
I don't think it is a good idea to use nose ring in this type of application. If you plan to use Hyde mount, go with the one that doesn't require nose ring (type A).

The kit was designed without nose ring application, so you will need lots of modification to get the nose ring work.

I still haven't been able to figure out the tuned pipe and header for my engine. I've been searching for timing data on 91SX-H, but nothing was available. Looks like building a carbon tuned pipe & header is out of option.

Since I also need a tuned pipe to use with 120 & 140 size engines, I am thinking about getting an ES Carbon tuned (2.5 ~ 3.5oz) pipe unless there is something light enough and cheaper than ES.

I've looked at the Bolly carbon pipes, but none of them are actually light. Some of them actually are heavier than the Greve pipe (4 oz).

Does anyone know which header I need to get? Standard, Long, or extra long?

I will be running the engine with 20% and APC 15x8 to break-in.
I am still not sure if the 15x8 shown in the 91FX manual is good for break-in. Most of time I use a little smaller prop for beak-in, then go with a larger size.

By the way, how much was the shipped price for the Bolly gear?
If I use Bolly, I would mount it so that the wheels can be under the leading edge similar to the Hideaway.

esport33

My Feedback: (2)

I now nothing about the differances of the aircraft- vs -heli engines... can I run a heli on my wb? what are the differances besides the look of the head?

PatternFlyer

My Feedback: (182)

91SX-H can be run in WB.
It has a little more power. 0.1ps more than 91FX.
The cylinder liner porting is slightly different for this power.
Carb is standard type which I like better than the remote needle.
Cost a little more than 91FX which comes with muffler.
I bought 91SX-H to use with tuned pipe.
It may has a little bit short prop shaft. Since I don't have 91FX, I have no idea how long the prop shaft is on 91FX.

Robert is getting a YS 91ST (I will get one later with YS110FZ).
Joaquin and Earl are using YS 80STs.

If you don't plan on using Tuned pipe and like the remote needle, I don't recommend getting a heli engine because of the additional cost. Running has no differences.

esport33

My Feedback: (2)

I guess that they make a prop adapter that can be used on the short shaft the heli engines come with. I wanted to buy the 91fx but can't seem to find the engine in stock anywhere, now I'm onto the heli version with the adapter. I think I found one with the adapter at a good price. I'll add the mac tuned pipe to it...guess we have to mount the tuned pipe externaly eh?

PatternFlyer

My Feedback: (182)

I plan to modify the box under the wing as a removable belly pan or cut it out to accept tuned pipe.

I need to make sure the dimensions of that box before choosing one of the above, but easiest way is to cut it out to have the tuned pipe go inside that box at least half the diameter.

Also, I need to get the adapter (reach through) part number from Tru Turn. I just tried to mount APC 16x8 on the 91SX.

If I don't use spinner, I can just use the prop with TT prop adapter, but with spinner, I have no prop shaft protruding out of the prop.