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Sebastiano Silvestri new F3A plane

Old 08-06-2008, 09:52 AM
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MHester
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Default RE: Sebastiano Silvestri new F3A plane

Oxai planes certainly have thier place in the world, and a good place it is.

But I agree with Mike, it has been a long time since we've had so many options, and there are more daily. Oxai has certainly opened up thier inventory with still more to come. They are the best manufactured ARFs in the world.

But they aren't for everyone. I couldn't afford one myself. Well ok if I saved and scratched for a long time I could, but I couldn't personally justify the cost. That doesn't translate to someone else not being able to.

But as just previously mentioned, a crash can still happen. So if you can't afford to lose that much money, don't fly one. If you can, just get 2 and rock on [8D]

-M
Old 08-06-2008, 09:55 AM
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mups53
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Default RE: Sebastiano Silvestri new F3A plane

I'd be to afraid of a midair at a contest. 2 planes taking up the same space at the same time when we run 2 lines. It's a formula for disaster. A few years ago they had a pattern contest in the south that had either 3 or 4 midairs in one weekend.
Rusty Dose midaired his Oxai Zeque at the D4 vs: D5 shootout last year. It went into a Temptation and let me tell you it don't matter what they cost in a midair. Both planes landed safely but the Z was in much worse shape. Well in fairness the prop on the Tempation got into the bottom of the Z's fuse. Mike
Old 08-06-2008, 09:57 AM
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Default RE: Sebastiano Silvestri new F3A plane

Actually that was 3 mid air's in less than 2 hours, I was involved in midair #1.....I was lucky, I landed with no rudder and half of my fin gone. The rest of the guys weren't so lucky. Also we had one lock out and go in, and one exploded a wing on a snap on that same day......

So yeah it happens.

-M
Old 08-06-2008, 11:05 AM
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Troy Newman
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Default RE: Sebastiano Silvestri new F3A plane

actually Derek the electric bipes like the Amethyst and the new Miss Wind are very difficult to produce and still make weight. These are electric bipes and still make weight. The techniques and materials used more expensive. Besides I don't think any pricing is available in the USA for the Miss Wind yet. If you look at the prices of the OXAI models in Europe or Asia you will see the Price in the United States is always cheaper by at least a few hundred bucks. In some cases even more.

As for the prices yes they have gone up in the past couple years but it has not been so much of an increase on the part of the factory as it has been a decline in the value of the dollar vs the Chinese.

These models are expensive no doubt. The reason they are becoming popular is because of the quality and attention to detail. Anyone that has built their own wood models knows the time it takes to produce a model of this quality. You hear gripes about the price, yet when it comes time to purchase the model many folks still find the value in Oxai models.

Oxai is a small operation. They can only make a few hundred models a year. Its not like they are producing a run of 300 planes at a time and they are stamping them out like servo wheels. They just produce a product and charge their fee. To some the fee is too high, and to others like myself you get what you pay for. There are lots of choices out there, and a modeler can always design and build his own.

When you go out to eat, you have a choice there is the Ruth's Cris steak house and then there is the Jack in the Box Sirloin Burger.

There are many choices to suit your needs. To me I am very thankful that these types of models are even available to us.

Troy Newman

Old 08-06-2008, 11:24 AM
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Default RE: Sebastiano Silvestri new F3A plane

troy,Do you have any info on Sebe's contra-rotating prop on his biplane? Thanks
Old 08-06-2008, 11:29 AM
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Default RE: Sebastiano Silvestri new F3A plane

Good points all around. I love seeing these planes show up at the field. We have about 5 Oxai models flying at my local field. They are superior in so many ways. They all seem to fly very well too.
A lot of Pattern planes today have real sex appeal. They are sharp and they fly so darn well. The quality of the planes is bringing new people into the sport. I feel like we had a bunch of real ugly planes in the 90's and I think that in itself hurt pattern. I mean look at an old Finesse or a Sequel or a Joker. I didn't like the looks then and I think they look even worse now.
I think pattern had cool planes in the 70's with many models being revisited in SPA and BPA. I remember as a kid going to the Nats when it was a combined event. My favorite event was the static judging of the stunt control line planes. Man were they sharp! They had the best builers around back then. Oxai planes remind me of the control line stunt planes. To me it's like looking at a Ferrari. These planes whether you can afford them are good for the sport. For the rest of us we have really cool planes too. Some of the best planes at the Nats were homemade. It can be done and it's important that we still have guys who are willing to build. We can't afford to lose all the skills needed to make planes. Mike
Old 08-06-2008, 05:00 PM
  #32  
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Default RE: Sebastiano Silvestri new F3A plane

Yes, lots of very cool pattern airplanes available these days!
I seem to remember that the Formula 1 pylon racers were seeded based on finish. I'm glad I never had to judge either the C/L stunt planes or the Pylon racers!
I just wish there were more kit building choices in pattern. I asked Troy Newman about the possibility of Oxai selling their airplanes as kits (since they are all wood they had to start out as a 'kit' at some point). He had already inquired and provided me with a very detailed rational for not doing it (mostly, they are afraid of kits being finished and sold by 'amateurs' as genuine Oxai orginals). I understand the issue, though I would think something like serial numbers in the Oxai built originals could eliminate any confusion. I still love to build as I started back in the '60s when that was the only option! Admittedly, I haven't used silk and dope in a few decades , but it is a great feeling to produce a top quality pattern ship that flies as good as it looks! I wonder what would happen to pattern if the B.O.M. rule was enacted[X(].
-Will B.
Old 08-06-2008, 08:36 PM
  #33  
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Default RE: Sebastiano Silvestri new F3A plane

{Quote}
I wonder what would happen to pattern if the B.O.M. rule was enacted
{Quote}

Probably the same thing that happened the first time.
Many built and just as many bought.

Old 08-07-2008, 04:47 AM
  #34  
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Default RE: Sebastiano Silvestri new F3A plane

Congratulations Sebastiano on a very elegant design. I have never really considered biplanes due to the extra complications but this design has certainly turned my head. Anyone know any design details of the biplanes. Like airfoil thickness and rigging angles. Looks to me like 10% or thinner foils and the rigging on the top wing -.5 deg according to the drawing on the Oxai site. Is this really an all wood model? If so it is great design. Looks like a molded fuse in the one open hatch picture.
Old 08-07-2008, 07:50 AM
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Default RE: Sebastiano Silvestri new F3A plane

Troy, what's your take on the bipe trend, and any advantage it represents?
Old 08-07-2008, 09:34 AM
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Default RE: Sebastiano Silvestri new F3A plane

An absolute WICKED lookin' plane.
Mind you, in my eye's the Matts bipe is even better. Less of a plane... or of a MACHINE.
True Tuetonic mind set.
Love the idea of the counter rotating prop though.
Ahhh never mind. Back to reality.
Old 08-07-2008, 10:54 AM
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Default RE: Sebastiano Silvestri new F3A plane

David ... you mean the Amethyst? I love how it does not have a canopy, so cool. Truly wicked machine!
Old 08-07-2008, 02:43 PM
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Troy Newman
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Default RE: Sebastiano Silvestri new F3A plane

When you look at the sequences we are now flying especially in F-09 and even more so in the coming 2011 sequecnes there is something that stands out.

You need a model that rolls really well, has a huge knife edge ability, snaps really well, and flys slow.

A bipe excels at these things. Or should I say a well designed AND well built bipe will excel at these things.

I personally feel that my Euphoria has an advantage in the air. Especially in the Finals Sequences and Unknowns.

Troy Newman
www.patternflyer.com
Old 08-07-2008, 02:51 PM
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Default RE: Sebastiano Silvestri new F3A plane

Thanks for enlightening me Troy.
Old 08-07-2008, 04:16 PM
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Default RE: Sebastiano Silvestri new F3A plane

Looks very nice.

I personally feel that my Euphoria has an advantage in the air.
Even in high winds compared to a monoplane with a smallish wing? With their lighter wing loadings I would imagine that these 5kg bipes will be affected by turbulence a lot more than a 5kg monoplane.
Old 08-07-2008, 05:12 PM
  #41  
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Default RE: Sebastiano Silvestri new F3A plane

ORIGINAL: fonzie72

we waiting you in Brescia (Italy) for European F3A Championship!
Ciao
Alfo.
I think a monoplane twin makes a lot of sense in electric. Smaller motors mounted on wing nacelles driving props in contra fashion. Electric makes contra rotating twins a cinch....I wish I had more time to design one. Nacelles can be designed to produce the benefits of a bipe's struts without the weight and complexity penalty of a second wing.

Had this discussion with Dean Pappas and Bobby Hunt and they are almost finished creating a contra-rotating twin for CL stunt. An F3A model would be straight forward to execute as well.

I also agree with the other responders that Silvestri's bipe is a good looker. Hopefully it flies as good as it looks

MattK
Old 08-07-2008, 05:34 PM
  #42  
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Default RE: Sebastiano Silvestri new F3A plane


ORIGINAL: MTK

ORIGINAL: fonzie72

we waiting you in Brescia (Italy) for European F3A Championship!
Ciao
Alfo.
I think a monoplane twin makes a lot of sense in electric. Smaller motors mounted on wing nacelles driving props in contra fashion. Electric makes contra rotating twins a cinch....I wish I had more time to design one. Nacelles can be designed to produce the benefits of a bipe's struts without the weight and complexity penalty of a second wing.

Had this discussion with Dean Pappas and Bobby Hunt and they are almost finished creating a contra-rotating twin for CL stunt. An F3A model would be straight forward to execute as well.

I also agree with the other responders that Silvestri's bipe is a good looker. Hopefully it flies as good as it looks

MattK
WOW . . that brings about a whole new thought process . .

Not sure about the weight of motors out on the wings though. I think the idea has been to get the 'outboard' wing weight down to reduce momentum in rolls (points, and snaps), etc. . .

Then there's the possible yaw effect, OR reduced ability to yaw ? I know that some twin pilots have mixed rudder to throttle to increase the speed of one motor more than the other in turns . . .

Hmmmmm . . It would all do my head in, I think []

Cheers, JB
Old 08-07-2008, 09:46 PM
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Default RE: Sebastiano Silvestri new F3A plane


ORIGINAL: MTK

ORIGINAL: fonzie72

we waiting you in Brescia (Italy) for European F3A Championship!
Ciao
Alfo.
I think a monoplane twin makes a lot of sense in electric. Smaller motors mounted on wing nacelles driving props in contra fashion. Electric makes contra rotating twins a cinch....I wish I had more time to design one. Nacelles can be designed to produce the benefits of a bipe's struts without the weight and complexity penalty of a second wing.

Had this discussion with Dean Pappas and Bobby Hunt and they are almost finished creating a contra-rotating twin for CL stunt. An F3A model would be straight forward to execute as well.

I also agree with the other responders that Silvestri's bipe is a good looker. Hopefully it flies as good as it looks

MattK
I believe you mean counter-rotating propellers. Contra-rotating propellers use a single engine to turn two props in opposite directions (like the Hughes XF-11).
Old 08-07-2008, 10:04 PM
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Default RE: Sebastiano Silvestri new F3A plane

Seba is only using 1 Hacker Comp motor with a special gearbox to accomplish this.
Old 08-07-2008, 10:43 PM
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Default RE: Sebastiano Silvestri new F3A plane


ORIGINAL: Angus Balfour

Looks very nice.

I personally feel that my Euphoria has an advantage in the air.
Even in high winds compared to a monoplane with a smallish wing? With their lighter wing loadings I would imagine that these 5kg bipes will be affected by turbulence a lot more than a 5kg monoplane.

Actually the Euphoria is very good in the wind. Its definitely not a kite.

My higher scoring rounds from the Nationals Prelims were on the day we had 15-20mph right in our face. I think the plane handles the wind better in many aspects than my mono planes. Especially in turbulence...its very solid. More solid in rough air than some of the mono-planes I have flown in recent years.

The design of the bipe plays a huge role. The experience and expertise in design play a much bigger role in the bipes. There are factors like the interference between the two wings and also the fact that the Euphoria doesn't have much more wing area than some of the large wing mono planes.

Quique designed this model to fly in the wind. He knew Argentina was going to be windy and designed the model to handle the wind.

Troy
Old 08-08-2008, 01:57 AM
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Default RE: Sebastiano Silvestri new F3A plane

Interesting. So how does the Adventure compare to the Euphoria in the wind Troy?

Angus
Old 08-08-2008, 06:20 AM
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mups53
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Default RE: Sebastiano Silvestri new F3A plane

Trust me guys I judged Troy and QQ in the semi's at the Nats. Both had their Euphoria's dialed in. Totally impressive. Mike
Old 08-08-2008, 08:10 AM
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Default RE: Sebastiano Silvestri new F3A plane


ORIGINAL: Nathan King


ORIGINAL: MTK

ORIGINAL: fonzie72

we waiting you in Brescia (Italy) for European F3A Championship!
Ciao
Alfo.
I think a monoplane twin makes a lot of sense in electric. Smaller motors mounted on wing nacelles driving props in contra fashion. Electric makes contra rotating twins a cinch....I wish I had more time to design one. Nacelles can be designed to produce the benefits of a bipe's struts without the weight and complexity penalty of a second wing.

Had this discussion with Dean Pappas and Bobby Hunt and they are almost finished creating a contra-rotating twin for CL stunt. An F3A model would be straight forward to execute as well.

I also agree with the other responders that Silvestri's bipe is a good looker. Hopefully it flies as good as it looks

MattK
I believe you mean counter-rotating propellers. Contra-rotating propellers use a single engine to turn two props in opposite directions (like the Hughes XF-11).
Quite right..... my error in semantics

MattK
Old 08-08-2008, 10:01 AM
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Default RE: Sebastiano Silvestri new F3A plane

You can also do your own woody bip like this french competitor:
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Old 08-08-2008, 03:28 PM
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Default RE: Sebastiano Silvestri new F3A plane

Hi Mcleote

This plane fly very well.
My friend Dominique has the drawings if you are interested.
regards

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