F.Imbriaco

My Feedback: (56)

I've never considered a Saito for pattern ; having favored YS and OS Engines of various flavors. However, the expense of running my OS160 FX and OS140RX in my 2 meter aircraft continues to escalate towards the absurd because of the price of glow fuel.

The new Saito FG-Gas is an intriguing powerplant for 90/120 aircraft because of its weight ( 35.3 ounces with muffler and ignition) , 10,000 RPM capability ( don't know what size prop here) and ability to swing a 15X7 three blade- all as per Horizon website- don't blame me if this is wrong . Don't know the BHP.It may be capable of pulling around a FOCUS SPORT , VENUS 2 , or as a stretch , the new AQUILA ( maybe for the lower classes, here). The other two aircraft ( and others) should be able to handle the Master's sequence as PRACTICE AIRCRAFT , but not saying for sure with this powerplant. We already know that the OS 120AX and YS 110 are the current powerplants of choice for models of this size. The SAITO FG-20 will run all weekend on a gallon of mixed pump gas- The SAITO ad states up to a 90% decrease in operating costs. It could be a pig , suitable only for 60/120 ARF Warbirds and Cubbies , but time will tell.

The OS 120 FX with muffler weighs 29 ounces , a tuned pipe will save a few , but will increase costs. The SAITO will probably require a 6 ounce tank vs. a 16 ounce for the OS & YS. The ignition battery could come in @ 3 -4 ounces. Right now , the engine is pricy @ $529 , but there is talk on RCU of dealers selling for slightly under $500. Still not cheap, but the fuel cost savings will have it covered in no time . I'm not ready to take the plunge just yet , but it is certainly tempting.

Your thoughts ?

beppeVRCS

I'm always puzzled and amazed by the "savings on fuel costs" that can be obtained by expensive engines on expensive aircraft, controlled by very expensive equipment!
Did you ever compute the expenditure in fuel over a year period, for instance, compared with what we spend in airplanes, radios and engines in the same period?
Beppe

Dean Pappas

Hi Frank,
Hi Beppe,
I doubt that the gas version Saito will make adequate ponies as compared to the 120 AX or the YS 110.
Do you want to be the test case? Let's get a number from Horizon on how it will turn a: 15-8, 15-10, 16-10, 16-8.
These are sizes that bracket around what I'd run on the 120AX. Then we will have an idea as to whether it has the poop.

Happy turkey,

Dean Pappas

F.Imbriaco

My Feedback: (56)

Thanks for your most welcome input , Dino. I'll call Horizon.

Gobble- Gobble

Frank

CrashGaalaas

My Feedback: (8)

The ad caught my eye too. I'll be watching this thread for reports.

F.Imbriaco

My Feedback: (56)

Yes, indeed I have and fuel is my biggest expense. Why ? I treat my equipment very well and tend to keep my equipment a long time. ( Depression era parents , I guess).
When I move on to another model or new equipment , I sell the old and recoup a fair amount of the initial expense(s). Fuel costs, however, blow out my tuned pipe !

F.Imbriaco

My Feedback: (56)

Dean,
I just spoke with Horizon tech. The only prop they could give RPM figures is a 15X7 Two- blade @ 10,000. According to the tech , Saito does not supply an HP figure because" it might be misconstrued ". The tech stated that he could not obtain from Saito or their own testing RPM figures on the props you suggest. The tech indicated that the FG-20 would be "equal in power to the 91 or 100."
I guess they're targeting guys with .60 UGLY STIKS, not us.

Dean Pappas

Frank,
Simple max HP figures are jive: you need to see HP and torque curves.
I have seen horsepower and torque curves out of the Saito folks so I know they perform them like any reasonable engine manufacturer. How did I get to see them? ... Don't ask.
If it will turn a 15-10 APC in the low 8's then you will have enough for a 9-1/4 lb practice ship.
later,
Dean

iricherich1

My Feedback: (10)

Hi Guys,
I've got an fg-20 coming Friday. I'll get back to you all in a couple of weeks after the new Bird takes it's maiden voyage. I'm planning on going purely 4-stroke glow and 2-stroke, 4-stroke gas. The glow fuel is so outrageously expensive.

iricherich1

My Feedback: (10)

Oh, Also,,, I've got an OS twin 300 brand new,never run. Any offers. It's currently in a Christian Eagle, but has never been flown yet.

mike early

How does it go?

sarashina

Here are two flight videos that two planes actually use Saito FG-20. Watch these and judge its power by yourself.

http://www.saito-mfg.com/single-file...g20_video.html

Jetdesign

My Feedback: (8)

I just watched this video, which is an interview with a rep at a hobby show. They claim it has about 5% less power than the 1.25 glow.
http://video.aol.com/video-detail/ho...iew/2216663040

MikeSteve

Hi friends,
Does any one have an idea about max rpms with a 15x8 and with a 16x6. I doubt that was able to turn a 15x8 more than 7500 rmp, but feedback is wellcomed.
It is strange not to have yet a serious review done for this new engine.


Regards,

Miguel

Saillfish

My Feedback: (17)

I got 9k running a apc 16x6 at 3300 ft. Look at the other post on the engine. I have a video posted. I say 16x8 in the video, but it is a 16x6.

MikeSteve

If reaches 9000 rpm with a 16x6, I guess that 15x8 should be more than 9000, or not?
And a 16x8 should be around the 8000 rpm.

But these are all assumptions!

helijim1

My Feedback: (8)

I have an fg 20 so far it has been total frustration.sent it back to horizen.Got it back with a note saying the pin which holds the timing hub in place was sheared off which they fixed.Also said they ran the engine up to full power with good transition and idle .When i set the engine up on my test stand to run it it would hardly run.After extensive carb adjustments i finally got it to run with marginal results.It will not hold a consistant idle surges up and down.I have tried every conceivable carb setting imaginable and it will not run reliably.I am a lifetime modeler with over 50 yrs experience with engines both glow and ignition.So i feel i know what i am talking about.I think i may have a defective carb.
Will try sending it back to horizon again hoping they will resolve the problem.If they don,t then my opinion of this engine is it is a piece of crap.I have an fg-36 that runs great no problems at all. Anybody with fg 20 experience please reply.

F.Imbriaco

My Feedback: (56)

Check out the gas engine forum. As many, including myself, have discovered - this engine is totally unsuited for 90 sized Pattern and based upon what buyers have indicated, it is questionable for any application until Saito straightens things out. Glad I never bought one; thought it might have potential in a practice aircraft , only. Unfortunately, you guys were the guinea pigs. Good Luck !

no23op57

My Feedback: (9)

Saito FG-20 is just a **** !!!!!!!
I spent more than 3500 CNY for this engine to save fuel cost. OMG! It just cost more ...
I installed FG-20 on my old Top-Flite P51D .60, so lucky I put it on the old version instead of my new one.

Till now, my P51D with FG-20 just took 6 flights. 4 of them met an accident with engine overheat.
I still keep my aircraft only becauseI just landed it down without engine power, but I dont know whether I could be lucky enough to land the plane without power next time.

2 of my friends possess this engine too, one for a .90 F3A trainer and one for a kyosho .90 Spitfire.
Fact here is, F3A crashed a month before and Spitfire went its way last weekend(the second flight of the plane, what a pity)! Both accidents were caused by losing engine power.

Unfortunately, the engine can not be returned in China, so I just plan to put this engine to any places except my plane.
Maybe replace it with an OS FS-91 or an ASP FS-91

And, I didn't get any positive feedback about this ****.
Just keep your plane away from SAITO FG-20!!!!!

northwest

This post says a lot about pattern flying. It can really seem exclusive to only those who can "afford" it. Many of us want to make the sacrifice for a chance own that "perfect" plane,but it doesn't make sense to have the plane and can't relax and put in the practice if you're worried about the cost of fuel. There's no peace of mind in watching the fuel level in the bottle and trying to squeeze the most out of every flight. This is why I still fly only IMAC. Pattern is the purest form of precision so I really want to get involved but the truth is its too expensive for planes limited in size. Gasoline power will be a way to ease the pressure when it evolves.

Anyway, the 20cc 4-stroke is not the answer . A 30cc 2-stroke gasoline engine on a carbon pipe will be the solution to those who cannot afford the glow fuel.
Take a good look at the "Syssa Aircraft Performance SAP 180". Made in the USA. As soon as they make a decent header this will be a successful engine for serious pattern work.
It will weigh about the same as a YS 170 with CDI, but with say a 14 oz tank, so the 11lb limit can easily be reached.

As soon as the recession eases up and the job is secure again I personally will go for this engine, coupled to a "Black Magic".

imm0rtai

xyz 26s turns a 16x10 apc at 8300 rpm.18x8 at 7000rpmIuse a 16x8 @ 8600rpm for myyak54 8lb 10oz plane and it flies stright up almost as fast as it flies forward. I fly for 15 mins on a 8 oz tank, but i fly slow and lots of hovering and harrier.mine weighed in at 930g thats just under 33ozwith ignition, muffler, spark plug, mounting hardware including screws prop hub stand offs. Engine only wieght is 700 grams. Check out the video on youtube. The engine is vary new and a bit hard to get, but you can get the 26hp at hobbyking.com wich is vary simular in performance but it takes a bit longer to break in because its a rotory valve and its abit heavier.

After that the best 30cc gas engine on the market is teh DLE 30 about 1050 grams with ignition hardware, and muffler. It claims to swing a 20x8 i dont have much experience with the engine, but i do own a dle 55 and the claims they make are dead on.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vLuxYtEx7qI

selnekav

Hi
Can you send link to the xyz 26s ?

Thanks

F.Imbriaco

My Feedback: (56)

I started this thread, so I might as well jump back in. Consider the Syssa 180 gassie. It is the only offering ( I know there are others) that has what serious 2M pattern guys are looking for. Low weight, compact design, easy start/ maintenance, ability to swing pattern props @ the RPMs /torque required, etc., etc.

No , I don't own one as of yet , but my initial recommendation for this engine has been brought to fruition by Matt K. and Ed A. after a great deal of testing. Read what they and others have said about it. I've have witnessed flight results and handling characteristics and I dare say, this engine is it !

Forget the Saitos, unless you want low level sport performance with all the other negatives.

selnekav

The subject of the thread is "GASSER FOR 90/120 PATTERN", i guess there is still pattern flyers like me who can't afford 2m airplane or just want to stay with 90 size.. but still looking for gas engine solution for thier 90 size pattern, i am sure that the SAP-180 is good engine but i don't see how i can put it on 90 size airplane....

F.Imbriaco

My Feedback: (56)

With all due respects to your reminder to me of the basis of this thread , I started the thread , so I do know the purpose of it. At that time, the Saito FG-20 was just out and I thought it might be capable of powering a smaller pattern - practice ship- just to save a few bucks on fuel. My current recommendation about the Syssa 180 was meant to help along those lines ( economical pattern)for the more popular 2M aircraft.

There are used 2M aircraft on the market and ARCs/ ARFs like the Focus 2 that are economical, viable pattern mounts and the Syssa will power them effortlessly. Read some of the recent posts, if you desire.

Whether its a 90, 120 or 2M aircraft, that's up to you. Smaller size doesn't always equate to less money. It sounds as though you already have the aircraft or one in mind. Power it anyway you like and good luck along the way.