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NEUTRINO - NEW F3A PROJECT FROM GREECE

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Old 01-19-2009, 02:57 PM
  #1
Elias Sopeoglou
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Default NEUTRINO - NEW F3A PROJECT FROM GREECE

Hallo to all,
Since I came back from the wonderfull competition of European Championchip in Italy I started remembering with nostalgia the days I have drawn and build my own F3A planes.Back then (´99)it started trying to save some money and the wish for knoledge of what makes a pattern plane actually fly good.Now I see it differently ,a project like this actually costs more than a normally priced kit (or a couple of them),not to mention the time invested.But it´s the knoledge and feeling of creation that pays back the most.

So here we go ,It all starts with a sketch....
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Old 01-19-2009, 03:06 PM
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Elias Sopeoglou
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Default RE: NEUTRINO - NEW F3A PROJECT FROM GREECE

The sketch then was transfered as a background image in a cad software.Lines and curves are drawn ontop of the image ,digitizing the concept beggins..
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Old 01-19-2009, 04:31 PM
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Elias Sopeoglou
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Default RE: NEUTRINO - NEW F3A PROJECT FROM GREECE

The original plan is to build a balsa protoype implemented with some features as ,2 piece fuselage sections and a variable stabilizer position system for trim purposes ,in the future the last will help allot to trim the plane.The two piece fuselage system cosists of plywood brackets joined with a carbon tube 4mm in dia.
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Old 01-19-2009, 04:37 PM
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Elias Sopeoglou
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Default RE: NEUTRINO - NEW F3A PROJECT FROM GREECE

here is the bracket drawing.The angled cutting line on the fuse is to give more joining lenght.
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Old 01-19-2009, 04:57 PM
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Default RE: NEUTRINO - NEW F3A PROJECT FROM GREECE

The variable stab position system cosists of four main parts ,the stab tube (carbon 12mm)can be set in any concievable position with a total travel of 30mm.The big irregular shaped parts are made of alluminum 1mm joined in the main fuse body.The filleted square parts are made of 3mm plywood with a 3mm blind nut in each corner and are held with 4 -3mm screws. theese can be set in any disirable position.
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Old 01-20-2009, 02:16 PM
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Default RE: NEUTRINO - NEW F3A PROJECT FROM GREECE

The 3d drawing .It´s not finished but this is as far as I`ll take it .
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Old 01-20-2009, 03:57 PM
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Alex Voicu
 
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Default RE: NEUTRINO - NEW F3A PROJECT FROM GREECE

It's a great looking model and you included quite a few new ideas. Just curious, why did you choose a swept back wing? Xigris also uses a similar wing design and i'd like to know if it improves the performance of the model.
Is it going to be electric powered? Looking at the smooth shape of the front end, the YS170 doesn't seem to fit inside without cutting the cowling. Maybe a 2 stroke engine?
Looking forward to see some images of the building process.
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Old 01-20-2009, 05:13 PM
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Elias Sopeoglou
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Default RE: NEUTRINO - NEW F3A PROJECT FROM GREECE

Dear Alex
Thanks for the comments.
Swept back wing is something I always liked in the looks of a pattern plane ,Conquest was one of them and I remember how it looked ¨locked¨in the air.Chrisofe´s new plane inspired me with this one egain.Theoreticly the stall starts from the root in this kind of design,witch is not something we actally want in a pattern plane .Tip stall is something we can use for making crisp starts of snap rolls.But there are other ways to do that like wide ailerons and small chords at the tip.
Yes it´s originally designed as an electric plane ,but I always leave a small window open for YS powerplants only ,modifying a cowl is an easy task you know ..

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Old 01-20-2009, 08:52 PM
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Default RE: NEUTRINO - NEW F3A PROJECT FROM GREECE

Elias ... great to see a project starting from scratch. Just a question why is the H stab on the Fuselage Reference Line? Does it make a difference if its higher or lower? I cna see that you made the wing slightly lower than the FRL and that is obvious why ... hope to see the finished product! She looks interesting.
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Old 01-20-2009, 11:42 PM
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Default RE: NEUTRINO - NEW F3A PROJECT FROM GREECE

Elias,

Very nice looking design. The 2 piece fuselage is for transport?



-mark
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Old 01-21-2009, 04:44 AM
  #11
Elias Sopeoglou
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Default RE: NEUTRINO - NEW F3A PROJECT FROM GREECE

Thanks Tianci and mark

Stab gets some of the downwash air from the wing ,the position is critical ,a couple of milimeters make alot of difference.Most pattern planes need this kind of difference between wing and stab ,the exact position will be determined during the trimming procedure. I always put reference line with stab, and horizontal in my drawing.This is how the plane sets in the air ,maybe some 1/4 deegree more or less.
Yes Mark two piece fuse is for transport ,it´s going to be a long trip from Greece to Portugal this summer ,specially with the car packed up for almost 1 month !

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Old 01-21-2009, 01:47 PM
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Default RE: NEUTRINO - NEW F3A PROJECT FROM GREECE

Hi

Nice project
What is airfoil and diédral choosen for the wings ?
Claude
See image of Oxalys's airfoil
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Old 01-21-2009, 05:29 PM
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Elias Sopeoglou
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Default RE: NEUTRINO - NEW F3A PROJECT FROM GREECE

Hallo Papaone !
Wing foil is naca 64010A ,oxalys I think has 12% ,please correct me if I´m wrong .
Dihedral will be 0 at top ,for start .
Just finished some construction of the prototype ,tomorow will post some pics..

Elias
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Old 01-21-2009, 08:08 PM
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Default RE: NEUTRINO - NEW F3A PROJECT FROM GREECE

Hi Elias,
This is really interesting, keep it up!
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Old 01-22-2009, 09:38 AM
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Default RE: NEUTRINO - NEW F3A PROJECT FROM GREECE

What I love about such projects is not that we see something new and fun being made but we also get to learn as to why certain things are done and what is the effect. Hope to see more soon Elias!
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Old 01-22-2009, 04:31 PM
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Elias Sopeoglou
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Default RE: NEUTRINO - NEW F3A PROJECT FROM GREECE

Hallo all thanks for the comments
The construction has started some days ago ,it´s just the thread that I kept behind. The concept is to transfer the design to the plane with no paper at all .I work in the sheetmetal industry, there is available a 3 axis milling machine at the factory that I have access.The travel is limited to 300x760mm so some parts will have to be divided to smaller parts.
All the parts needed have been drawn and then divided to sections according to material.
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Old 01-22-2009, 04:37 PM
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Elias Sopeoglou
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Default RE: NEUTRINO - NEW F3A PROJECT FROM GREECE

I started making the fuselage sides ,theese have been divided to 4 pieces on each side .The aluminum parts for the movable stab have also been cnc milled
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Old 01-22-2009, 04:56 PM
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Elias Sopeoglou
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Default RE: NEUTRINO - NEW F3A PROJECT FROM GREECE

The canalizer will be cnc milled from balsa stock ,it consists of two parts ,upper and lower ,it features a true airfoil naca 63010A just like the wing. I really liked the effect of the canalizer in my previous plane the oxalys ,Christofe really nailed this one right from the start ,and to think that many people thought it was a joke even a year ago.I´ll test the plane with a bigger canalizer and smaller wing in the future.
Sort of a hybrid bipeplane
Elias

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Old 01-22-2009, 05:15 PM
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Elias Sopeoglou
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Default RE: NEUTRINO - NEW F3A PROJECT FROM GREECE

The CNC milling simulation of the canalizer ,tool is a 8mm end ball mill.
Final touch is going to be hand made .CNC machines are neat but the final touch is always by the hand ,even in the industry .

cheers
Elias
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Old 01-23-2009, 01:36 AM
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Default RE: NEUTRINO - NEW F3A PROJECT FROM GREECE

Hi Elias
It's great to see you're using a CNC milling machine. I was a CNC programmer myself for more than 6 years and i've always wanted to use a CNC milling machine to build my pattern model. I've switched to 3D modelling/design 3 years ago and unfortunately i don't have access to these machines anymore.
Are you considering to make Neutrino available as a kit in the future?
Best of luck with your model!
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Old 01-23-2009, 10:54 AM
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Default RE: NEUTRINO - NEW F3A PROJECT FROM GREECE

Hi Elias,
We met in the European Championship last year. I'm following this thread, you are doing a great job. Keep going.
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Old 01-23-2009, 12:50 PM
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Default RE: NEUTRINO - NEW F3A PROJECT FROM GREECE

Giasou Illia

Its Alex from russia we also met in itally at the europeans. who you doing?
i really like the design. and the 2 peice fuse is nice touch. have you spoken to Viktor Mandrika about it? he has been maing pattern planes and utilizing this technique for over 20 years. he know all the does and donts of a 2 peice fuse.
Also why are you using an alumunum tail holed part? isnt it gonna add tones of which cant you just use ply? and a tiny plate on the reverse side for presice postioning?
Just my thoughts
hope to see you at the NATS in greece.
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Old 01-23-2009, 01:01 PM
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Default RE: NEUTRINO - NEW F3A PROJECT FROM GREECE

Hi Elias

Somes pics of 2 pieces fuse.
I think Skyline is made by Victor Mandrika.
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Old 01-23-2009, 01:24 PM
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Default RE: NEUTRINO - NEW F3A PROJECT FROM GREECE

HI papaone.

maybe, i am not sure. he has a new design now, the Majest. still 2 peice fuse.
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Old 01-23-2009, 01:40 PM
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Default RE: NEUTRINO - NEW F3A PROJECT FROM GREECE

Hi Buka

Thank you for information.
Have you some pics of Majest ?
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