X-treme Composite Altair 200
06-22-2009, 10:41 AM
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RE: X-treme Composite Altair 200
Adrian ... that was hard to read but did you crash your Altair recently? I tried using word and cut and paste, it takes the code along, just delete it all and post it maybe using Word Pad ... I messed about here and some how it disappeared.
06-22-2009, 10:43 AM
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RE: X-treme Composite Altair 200
ORIGINAL: riot3d
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06-22-2009, 10:45 AM
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RE: X-treme Composite Altair 200
ORIGINAL: tIANci
Adrian ... that was hard to read but did you crash your Altair recently? I tried using word and cut and paste, it takes the code along, just delete it all and post it maybe using Word Pad ... I messed about here and some how it disappeared.
Adrian ... that was hard to read but did you crash your Altair recently? I tried using word and cut and paste, it takes the code along, just delete it all and post it maybe using Word Pad ... I messed about here and some how it disappeared.
06-22-2009, 07:05 PM
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RE: X-treme Composite Altair 200
Two months ago, as I was finishing equipment installation on the plane, I received an e-mail message from Richard Cheong – producer of the Altair. Richard informed me that the factory has discovered some issues on the wing & stab’s leading edges that may cause the panels to delaminate, he further advised me to closely examine mine. The last time I have had the same issue was back 6 or 7 years ago with the Angel’s Shadow, with similar construction as the Altair 200 – building inside the mold. Needless to say, the AS’s wing panel delaminated in mid flight. After presenting pictures and some negotiation with the manufacturer, I received a replacement a few months later. However, I had to pay a certain amount of money to help the manufacturer with material and shipping.
After receiving Richard’s message, I took a closer look at both the wing and the stabs’ seams, and indeed noticed there was some separation on the wing’s leading edge if I press down hard enough. However, both stab looked solid. I rectified the problem by running a bead of thin CA along the front of the wing; furthermore, I sealed the whole leading edge of the wing and stabs with scuff guard. By doing that, it should prevent air from entering through the openings, thus, eliminate the delaminating problem.
Unfortunately, the Altair did crash about a month later; as I was practicing at Fresno before a contest. At that point, the plane has had about 40 flights, and was fully trimmed with the cdi running in perfect condition. Up until then, I was very happy with the performance of the plane, and was more than satisfy with the plane and engine combo. Because I enjoyed it so much, and since I have had over 600 flights on both my Astral XX and the ProLine, I placed a second order with Richard - a week before the incident.
Anyway, right after I’ve finished the three rolls opposite, the plane took a sudden nose dive but was recovered after a half loop. Within seconds, right after the plane was back in level flight, my caller – Don Atwood – yelled “there goes the stab”, I have lost all control of the plane, and it went in. As we were approaching the crash site, we first found the remains of the left stab a few hundred yards from the rest of the plane. As for the remains of the right stab, it was pretty much next to the rest of the wreckage.
After close examination at the pit area, we noticed both stabs not only delaminated in mid flight, but it also broke off right after where the stab tube ends. What happen was, I first lost the left stab, causing the plane to nose dive. Because of the half loop, there was just too much pressure inserted on the other stab, causing it to delaminate and broke as well. We further noticed there was not enough glue applied to the seams, and other contact surfaces. In addition, there were not enough spars/ ribs placed inside the wing and stabs for the skins to adhere to. Therefore, during rolling and snapping maneuvers, the wing and stabs started to flex and twist causing it to separate. Unfortunately, there was nothing I could do to stop the crash from happening; the scuff guard only prevented the inevitable from happening sooner.
To say that I was in disbelieved and disappointed is an understatement, a whole month of hard work for 40 flights? However, instead of making this public, I decided to first contact Richard and the factory for their assessment. After I returned home, I took a bunch of pictures and forwarded to both, and a phone call from Richard was received the same evening. Richard was very apologetic with my situation, and promised me he will investigate with the factory. In addition, a replacement plane would be send to me within a reasonable time frame. To tell the truth, I’ve contemplated canceling my order on the second one, but decided to wait until the findings from the factory before making my final decision.
During the next several weeks, I was in constant contact with Richard providing them with more pictures and suggestions. Two weeks ago, I received another message from Richard informing me that the factory has identified the problem and improvement will be made on their future productions. Apparently, the seam on the leading edge was the main culprit, and X-treme is making the following changes:-
1) Leading edges of the wing and stabs has been reinforced by gluing a strip of balsa inside butting against the front for better glue contact
2) A light glass cloth will be wrapped on the outside of the seam. Furthermore, it will be sanded and painted for a stronger and seamless appearance
It is always painful on losing a plane, regardless whether it is our or the manufacturers’ fault. The plane is replaceable, but our time, effort, not to mention money is not. Even though, my plane will be replaced, I hope X-treme will take a closer look into their QC issue. I further hope they will learn from this incident and keep improving on their future products. As for the second plane, since I do enjoy Naruke’s design, also with the promise of improvement on their products, I decide to go ahead with my order.
Adrian
After receiving Richard’s message, I took a closer look at both the wing and the stabs’ seams, and indeed noticed there was some separation on the wing’s leading edge if I press down hard enough. However, both stab looked solid. I rectified the problem by running a bead of thin CA along the front of the wing; furthermore, I sealed the whole leading edge of the wing and stabs with scuff guard. By doing that, it should prevent air from entering through the openings, thus, eliminate the delaminating problem.
Unfortunately, the Altair did crash about a month later; as I was practicing at Fresno before a contest. At that point, the plane has had about 40 flights, and was fully trimmed with the cdi running in perfect condition. Up until then, I was very happy with the performance of the plane, and was more than satisfy with the plane and engine combo. Because I enjoyed it so much, and since I have had over 600 flights on both my Astral XX and the ProLine, I placed a second order with Richard - a week before the incident.
Anyway, right after I’ve finished the three rolls opposite, the plane took a sudden nose dive but was recovered after a half loop. Within seconds, right after the plane was back in level flight, my caller – Don Atwood – yelled “there goes the stab”, I have lost all control of the plane, and it went in. As we were approaching the crash site, we first found the remains of the left stab a few hundred yards from the rest of the plane. As for the remains of the right stab, it was pretty much next to the rest of the wreckage.
After close examination at the pit area, we noticed both stabs not only delaminated in mid flight, but it also broke off right after where the stab tube ends. What happen was, I first lost the left stab, causing the plane to nose dive. Because of the half loop, there was just too much pressure inserted on the other stab, causing it to delaminate and broke as well. We further noticed there was not enough glue applied to the seams, and other contact surfaces. In addition, there were not enough spars/ ribs placed inside the wing and stabs for the skins to adhere to. Therefore, during rolling and snapping maneuvers, the wing and stabs started to flex and twist causing it to separate. Unfortunately, there was nothing I could do to stop the crash from happening; the scuff guard only prevented the inevitable from happening sooner.
To say that I was in disbelieved and disappointed is an understatement, a whole month of hard work for 40 flights? However, instead of making this public, I decided to first contact Richard and the factory for their assessment. After I returned home, I took a bunch of pictures and forwarded to both, and a phone call from Richard was received the same evening. Richard was very apologetic with my situation, and promised me he will investigate with the factory. In addition, a replacement plane would be send to me within a reasonable time frame. To tell the truth, I’ve contemplated canceling my order on the second one, but decided to wait until the findings from the factory before making my final decision.
During the next several weeks, I was in constant contact with Richard providing them with more pictures and suggestions. Two weeks ago, I received another message from Richard informing me that the factory has identified the problem and improvement will be made on their future productions. Apparently, the seam on the leading edge was the main culprit, and X-treme is making the following changes:-
1) Leading edges of the wing and stabs has been reinforced by gluing a strip of balsa inside butting against the front for better glue contact
2) A light glass cloth will be wrapped on the outside of the seam. Furthermore, it will be sanded and painted for a stronger and seamless appearance
It is always painful on losing a plane, regardless whether it is our or the manufacturers’ fault. The plane is replaceable, but our time, effort, not to mention money is not. Even though, my plane will be replaced, I hope X-treme will take a closer look into their QC issue. I further hope they will learn from this incident and keep improving on their future products. As for the second plane, since I do enjoy Naruke’s design, also with the promise of improvement on their products, I decide to go ahead with my order.
Adrian
06-22-2009, 11:56 PM
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RE: X-treme Composite Altair 200
ORIGINAL: tuan lam
HI,Adrian
what a beautiful plane you got there ! can you tell me more about the engine mount you got, it look very simple with the oil damber , where can I get it ? any website I can go on to ??
thank you very much for your reply ,
tuan lam
HI,Adrian
what a beautiful plane you got there ! can you tell me more about the engine mount you got, it look very simple with the oil damber , where can I get it ? any website I can go on to ??
thank you very much for your reply ,
tuan lam
Tuan,
Ithink you were referring to the YS mount? By far, it is one of the best soft mount I have ever used. A lot less vibration and more quiet. I believe you can order it from Central Hobbies, otherwise, you can order from YSParts &Service.
Adrian
06-23-2009, 12:00 AM
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RE: X-treme Composite Altair 200
Adrian ... sorry to hear about the loss, well look on the bright side, no one was hurt and the second plane will be easier to build now. Hope to see you put up a video of your plane flying.
06-23-2009, 12:49 AM
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RE: X-treme Composite Altair 200
Adrian , sorry to hear that . . . . well i think not only Altair have this issue , i lost my PROLINE "same manufacture" because of the elevator stab
too . . . . i think the stab they build all with same method . . . . . when i collect my broken PROLINE the stab skin at the front leading edge open up , too little glue at the edge of the stab ..!!
Ithink they should look closely into this probleum ........ !!
too . . . . i think the stab they build all with same method . . . . . when i collect my broken PROLINE the stab skin at the front leading edge open up , too little glue at the edge of the stab ..!!
Ithink they should look closely into this probleum ........ !!
06-23-2009, 12:55 AM
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RE: X-treme Composite Altair 200
Huison are we going to Xtreme in August? Hehehehe ... we wear mask la ... then when you come back you can quarantine with us in KL for a while week before you go back to the baby and missus!
06-23-2009, 01:30 AM
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RE: X-treme Composite Altair 200
Adrian,
Glad to hear they took care of it for you and for Snaproll. Wasn't too impressed with how it was handled with snap roll at first. But it was taken care of. That's how you should do it when you are a good manufacturer!
These guys need to look at the Abbra wings and stabs and replicate how they are built. SUPER light, and SUPER strong. Heck, the wings, stabs and fuse made it through my crash today. Gear and belly pan did not! lol CHECK YOUR BATTERY VOLTAGE BEFORE EACH FLIGHT!. LOL
Look forward to seeing your new plane!
C
Glad to hear they took care of it for you and for Snaproll. Wasn't too impressed with how it was handled with snap roll at first. But it was taken care of. That's how you should do it when you are a good manufacturer!
These guys need to look at the Abbra wings and stabs and replicate how they are built. SUPER light, and SUPER strong. Heck, the wings, stabs and fuse made it through my crash today. Gear and belly pan did not! lol CHECK YOUR BATTERY VOLTAGE BEFORE EACH FLIGHT!. LOL
Look forward to seeing your new plane!
C
06-23-2009, 01:32 AM
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RE: X-treme Composite Altair 200
ORIGINAL: huison2005
Adrian , sorry to hear that . . . . well i think not only Altair have this issue , i lost my PROLINE "same manufacture" because of the elevator stab
too . . . . i think the stab they build all with same method . . . . . when i collect my broken PROLINE the stab skin at the front leading edge open up , too little glue at the edge of the stab ..!!
Ithink they should look closely into this probleum ........ !!
Adrian , sorry to hear that . . . . well i think not only Altair have this issue , i lost my PROLINE "same manufacture" because of the elevator stab
too . . . . i think the stab they build all with same method . . . . . when i collect my broken PROLINE the stab skin at the front leading edge open up , too little glue at the edge of the stab ..!!
Ithink they should look closely into this probleum ........ !!
Golden, unfortunately, Ihave to disagree with you on this one.
As mentioned before, Ihave had over 500 flights on my Astral XX before Isold it to another pilot, and he is currently flying the plane. As for the PL, Ipresently have over 600 flights with absolutely no technical issues. Ido agree they may not be the best when it comes to finishing, and both of them were slightly over weight. However, both of mine were prototypes, and Ibelieve X-treme has fixed the problem with their production ones.
As for your PL, Ibelieve it was the bellypan came loose in mid flight. In turns, it took off the stab, causing it to crash?
I'm not trying to take sides with X-treme, especially, after what had happened to mine. However, I don't think it's fair to link the two incidence together.
06-23-2009, 02:35 AM
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RE: X-treme Composite Altair 200
Adrian,
This isbad news specially when the plane flies as good. OK they will replace the model, what about the rest of equpment that crashed?
Have you noticed something similar on the ProLine also? Iam a bit thoughtfull now however Ihave more than 100 flights with it till now without any issues. Would you recomend to apply some glue on the leading edges from the inside skin of the stabs?
Regards,
Nikos
This isbad news specially when the plane flies as good. OK they will replace the model, what about the rest of equpment that crashed?
Have you noticed something similar on the ProLine also? Iam a bit thoughtfull now however Ihave more than 100 flights with it till now without any issues. Would you recomend to apply some glue on the leading edges from the inside skin of the stabs?
Regards,
Nikos
06-23-2009, 02:38 AM
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RE: X-treme Composite Altair 200
Adrian ... I think Golden meant the big IF & MAYBE. IF there were more glue the stab MAYhave survived. Just that big IFonly.
06-23-2009, 02:56 AM
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RE: X-treme Composite Altair 200
ORIGINAL: Nickolas
>> Have you noticed something similar on the ProLine also?
As mentioned, no.
>> Iam a bit thoughtfull now however Ihave more than 100 flights with it till now without any issues.
Ican not comment on yours. However, I have not heard any other similar reports on the PL
>> Would you recomend to apply some glue on the leading edges from the inside skin of the stabs?
I don't know how you can apply glue on the inside. If you can do that, it means something has already happened to your plane. The only thing Ican recommend is to gently press down on the leading edge of both the wing &the stabs to see whether there are openings/ separation on the seam. If in the affirmative, apply CA. You can also seal the front with tapes.
>> Have you noticed something similar on the ProLine also?
As mentioned, no.
>> Iam a bit thoughtfull now however Ihave more than 100 flights with it till now without any issues.
Ican not comment on yours. However, I have not heard any other similar reports on the PL
>> Would you recomend to apply some glue on the leading edges from the inside skin of the stabs?
I don't know how you can apply glue on the inside. If you can do that, it means something has already happened to your plane. The only thing Ican recommend is to gently press down on the leading edge of both the wing &the stabs to see whether there are openings/ separation on the seam. If in the affirmative, apply CA. You can also seal the front with tapes.
06-23-2009, 05:30 AM
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RE: X-treme Composite Altair 200
Oops ... sorry mine PL lost is due to the belly pant break off n hit the right elevator , ...... sorry for the erro "i correct my word here " . . . .
What i mean is , there is too little glue "white colour" at the front leading Edge ... "IF" they can put a balsa strip across the leading edge , that
would be good and strong ..... just my opinion.... !
What i mean is , there is too little glue "white colour" at the front leading Edge ... "IF" they can put a balsa strip across the leading edge , that
would be good and strong ..... just my opinion.... !
06-23-2009, 09:49 AM
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RE: X-treme Composite Altair 200
ORIGINAL: huison2005
What i mean is , there is too little glue "white colour" at the front leading Edge ... "IF" they can put a balsa strip across the leading edge , that
would be good and strong ..... just my opinion.... !
What i mean is , there is too little glue "white colour" at the front leading Edge ... "IF" they can put a balsa strip across the leading edge , that
would be good and strong ..... just my opinion.... !
I totally agree ...
06-23-2009, 10:38 AM
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RE: X-treme Composite Altair 200
ORIGINAL: snap_roll
Any tips on strengthening the leading edges so that this thing wont happen again?
Any tips on strengthening the leading edges so that this thing wont happen again?
According to X-treme, there will be a thin balsa strip glued against the butt joint, and a fiberglass cloth will be wrapped around the outside. That should work.
12-24-2009, 07:36 PM
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RE: X-treme Composite Altair 200
I took advantage of the nice CA winter weather and test flown my second Altair the last two days, the main difference between the two is the latest one is cdi equipped.
The older one didn't have enough down and right thrust, and I had to relocate the engine mount bracket to add more, while the latest one has the correct thrust line resulting in better up and down line. However, both of them have the same issue of left rudder tucking to the belly, and rolling with right rudder. I'm hoping I can fine tune both of them in the next few days, and look forward to flying them for the new season.
The older one didn't have enough down and right thrust, and I had to relocate the engine mount bracket to add more, while the latest one has the correct thrust line resulting in better up and down line. However, both of them have the same issue of left rudder tucking to the belly, and rolling with right rudder. I'm hoping I can fine tune both of them in the next few days, and look forward to flying them for the new season.
12-25-2009, 12:51 AM
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RE: X-treme Composite Altair 200
ORIGINAL: tIANci
Riot ... looks like getting a pattern plane to fly right takes a lot of hard work and effort. Any chance of going EP?
Riot ... looks like getting a pattern plane to fly right takes a lot of hard work and effort. Any chance of going EP?
Absolutely ... NOT!!!
12-25-2009, 02:53 PM
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RE: X-treme Composite Altair 200
ORIGINAL: riot3d
Absolutely ... NOT!!!
ORIGINAL: tIANci
Riot ... looks like getting a pattern plane to fly right takes a lot of hard work and effort. Any chance of going EP?
Riot ... looks like getting a pattern plane to fly right takes a lot of hard work and effort. Any chance of going EP?
Absolutely ... NOT!!!
12-27-2009, 01:33 PM
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RE: X-treme Composite Altair 200
Adrian
How lucky you are...has two altair in thesame time!!!
I really like to buy another Altair 200 for CAOCC 2010,It is the best pattern plane I have never flew ,But cause the budget..............
How lucky you are...has two altair in thesame time!!!
I really like to buy another Altair 200 for CAOCC 2010,It is the best pattern plane I have never flew ,But cause the budget..............
12-27-2009, 01:52 PM
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RE: X-treme Composite Altair 200
ORIGINAL: Zi-Chun Lin
Adrian
How lucky you are...has two altair in thesame time!!!
I really like to buy another Altair 200 for CAOCC 2010,It is the best pattern plane I have never flew ,But cause the budget..............
Adrian
How lucky you are...has two altair in thesame time!!!
I really like to buy another Altair 200 for CAOCC 2010,It is the best pattern plane I have never flew ,But cause the budget..............
Hello Z. C.,
Happy Holidays!
Are you still flying your Adventure?
12-27-2009, 11:30 PM
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RE: X-treme Composite Altair 200
ORIGINAL: riot3d
Hello Z. C.,
Happy Holidays!
Are you still flying your Adventure?
ORIGINAL: Zi-Chun Lin
Adrian
How lucky you are...has two altair in thesame time!!!
I really like to buy another Altair 200 for CAOCC 2010,It is the best pattern plane I have never flew ,But cause the budget..............
Adrian
How lucky you are...has two altair in thesame time!!!
I really like to buy another Altair 200 for CAOCC 2010,It is the best pattern plane I have never flew ,But cause the budget..............
Hello Z. C.,
Happy Holidays!
Are you still flying your Adventure?