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  1. #51

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    RE: Comp ARF Valiant

    Status on my build:

    Like Stuart, I couldn't work on the Valiant for a few days. I was at the firewall install stage, and was planning to use my AXI 5330 FAI out of my Shinden that I lost in August.

    After the crash, the AXI went into a parts recovery box without attention. With it time to install into the Valiant, a close look found a broke magnet. Further close look, and it appears the shaft of the motor may have been bent slightly with the crash, as the armature-magnet gap is almost rubbing on one side, and pretty wide on the other. Argggh.

    Its time for a new motor. Although the AXI 5330 FAI is still available, I could save quite a bit of weight moving to the Plett Xtra 30-10 EVO.

    I contacted ICARE-RC, but they have a wait queue of at least 1 month. Bummer. I don't think there is another source in north america. I'll continue on with servo installs, canopy and rudder while I wait for the Plett to arrive.
    ______________________________________________
    Steve Sterling, NSRCA Dist 8

  2. #52
    can773's Avatar
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    RE: Comp ARF Valiant

    Hi Stever

    Get in touch with Chris Moon at F3Aunlimited.com he has worked out a deal with Pletty to sell Evos in the US. Maybe he can help you to get one sooner!
    Chad Northeast

    www.f3acanada.org

  3. #53

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    RE: Comp ARF Valiant

    A little dremel work from the top of the canopy over the installed sleeve and the bolt opening is done. The front of the canopy is held down to 2 3mm blind nuts supplied. they are glued in with slow epoxy upside down on the CF fuse ledge. This is copied from the way Comp Arf does the blind nut on the chin cowl. Trial fit first to make sure that the hole in the fuse ledge is in the right position. A little oversize is fine as the blind nut will determine final alignment. Tightening the canopy in place while the glue on the blind nut hardens will put them in proper alignment. (drying right now.) After they are firmly in place I will reinforce around them with epoxy/microballoons as is done on the chin cowl. Of course the blind nuts could just as easily be inserted into lite ply first and then glued in place. Hopefully tomorrow I can finish up the canopy by installing a couple of alignment pieces along the middle.
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  4. #54

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    RE: Comp ARF Valiant

    Canopy is now finished. Epoxy/micoballoons around the 2 blind nuts and alignment pins added. I went back and forth between using pins or the flat "hooks" provided into slots. I choose the pins as that seemed to work just fine on my Oxai Pinnacle. I used the same method as for the rear alignment pins. 1/8" CF rod into a teflon sleeve in a piece of balsa. Pictures should help. I placed 2 pins on each side, installing them 1 at a time with 5 minute epoxy and holding them in alignment untill the glue hardened. One problem was how to hold the balsa block with the teflon sleeve in place while the glue dried. I wanted to have it dry while the canopy was mounted and held in the proper alignment. For the front pins I tack glued a piece of balsa to the side of the fuse to act as a shelf for the alignment block. It was glued in place so the balsa block was held to a slip fit to the fuse rim. For the rear 2 pins I was worried that the fuse sides were too thin to have something glued to it and removed so I made the second support that was tack glued to the under edge of the fuse rim. I prefered ths second method. One issue in using the pins is that since the canopy is installed at an angle with the front up the pins do not want to go straight into the alignment blocks. In ordre to make this work the front of the teflon tube had to be relieved, and an angle sanded on the tip of the carbon fiber pins. Worked out OK, but next time I will probably go with the tabs and slots.

    Fuse at this point with canopy and chin cowl mounted, rudder tray, rear canopy former extension and firewall mounted weighs in at 1048 gms.
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  5. #55

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    RE: Comp ARF Valiant

    following the thread, i like the picture on the computer, now thats a real pattern plane!

  6. #56

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    RE: Comp ARF Valiant

    Now that's funny.


    Inside joke, it's his plane

    Been a little busy for the last few days. I worked on adjusting the rudder throw and have the tail wheel mounted, but that is all. Hopefully I can get more work done on it in the next couple of days and post some additional progress.

  7. #57

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    RE: Comp ARF Valiant

    The ailerons and elevators move freely on the hinge line and have more than enough throw. The rudder throw however is severely limited the way it comes from the factory. The upper portion of the hinge line on the fuse where it curves has to be trimmed back a good bit. Before and after pictures are shown. Just sand, reinstall the rudder and look for where it is binding. On future designs or a revision of this design, I think I would avoid a curved hinge line with this hinging method as you have to cut away too much material on the fuse side. The slots in the front of the rudder where the hinges insert into also had to be widened a bit to allow for increased rudder throw. According to the designer, you would like th erudder throw to go within about 1/4" from the elevators. Also according t the designer the supplied rudder horn may not have the right angle to allow for full throw. It was supposed to be modified so check your kit. I am planning on using a more convenional rudder horn and am just waiting for a long enough piece of 3mm threaded rod to arrive.

    I choose an MK tail wheel assembly, 13 gms with mounting hardware. I know some people have made their own a little lighter but I do not know of a commercial version that is lighter. Installation was easy there is enough material in the bottom of the rear fuse for the screws to bite into. I used the rudder hinge pin to also attach to the tiller arm of the MK tail wheel. A short slot was cut into the bottom of the rudder for the hinge pin. The pictures should show what you need to know.
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  8. #58

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    RE: Comp ARF Valiant

    Both the stabs and the wings fit the fuse exceptionately well. Comp ARF did a nice job with that. The stab is mounted to the stab tube with a 3 mm cap screw on each half going into the tube. I used the Integral manual for their suggested method. Drill a 2.5 mm hole throgh the bottom of the stab, through the stab tube sleeve and into the stab tube. Try to mark the center of the stab tube location and drill perpendicular to the centerline of the stab and not perpendicular to the stab surface. The first side I did that and had to open the holes a bit. I placed the hole just outside of the stab tube support that you can see from the root of the stab. There is another suppport at the end of the sleeve and the hole fell right between these two. There is no material between the stab skin and tube in this location so the cap screw will be sitting on the tube sleeve when tightened. Use the screw to cut threads in the stab tube and open the hole in the tube sleeve to 3 mm or a little more if you need the wiggle room. Open the wing skin to 5.5 mm for the head of the cap screw to fit through. The integral manual shows an upside down blind nut with 2 sides cut down to fit inside the tube and glued with epoxy/microballoon mixture. My reccomendation is to try and preserve the threads on the carbon fiber tube to guide the screw in the proper orientation. Wax the screw (I use soap) to prevent it from sticking to the glue and glue in the blind nut. Once the glue is almost hardened I would reccomend removing the screw and installing the rod into the stab nad see if the screw goes straight through the hole in the stab skin. I had to modify mine a little bit. Once satisfied let the glue fully harden and then do the same for the other side. Just drill the first hole with the stabs installed in the fuse and tight against the fuse side. Another option would have been to glue a small piece of hardwood dowel into the stab tube and drill and thread that. I think that might be an easier method.

    The stab servo cutouts are small. 27mm long. Not sure what servo they had in mind but I doubt anyone would go that small on the tail of a pattern plane. I use JR 3421SA servos and they are about 31mm long so the cutout has to be opened.
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  9. #59
    JAS's Avatar
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    RE: Comp ARF Valiant

    The stab cutouts are just rough cut-outs. I use 9650's which are bigger than the 3421's.
    Uncle JAS x 2
    Shulman Aviation
    jasonshangar.weebly.

  10. #60

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    RE: Comp ARF Valiant

    Is there a servo that could be used in the small cutouts provided? The Integral directions lists a cutout that would fit the 3421 without modification. 15 x 32. If this is the smallest size servo that someone might choose then I think it would be no different for the manufacturer to make the opening that size. (Monor point on a nicely produced airplane)

    On another note I was waiting for some 3mm threaded rod. I ordered a couple of pieces from McMaster Carr yesterday at about 4PM. They arrived UPS ground this morning. Pretty cool.

  11. #61
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    RE: Comp ARF Valiant

    I've seen Todd use a 3102 servo in his electric before.
    Uncle JAS x 2
    Shulman Aviation
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  12. #62

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    RE: Comp ARF Valiant


    ORIGINAL: sc204

    Is there a servo that could be used in the small cutouts provided? The Integral directions lists a cutout that would fit the 3421 without modification. 15 x 32. If this is the smallest size servo that someone might choose then I think it would be no different for the manufacturer to make the opening that size. (Monor point on a nicely produced airplane)

    On another note I was waiting for some 3mm threaded rod. I ordered a couple of pieces from McMaster Carr yesterday at about 4PM. They arrived UPS ground this morning. Pretty cool.
    Stu, my Integral cutouts on the stabs had to be trimmed back to fit a 3421. No problem. Just do it.

  13. #63

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    RE: Comp ARF Valiant

    Real life has left me with just small time blocks to work on the plane
    Next up was to finish the stabs. Comp ARF provides phenolic horns meant to glue into a slot that you cut into the elevators (same for ailerons) There is a balsa block in the elevator which can be seen by holding it up to a bright light source. It is large enough that most horns can be used. I am not a fan of single phenolic horns when the servo is mounted in the normal fashion. As the servo rotates the clevis on the phenolic horn will twist to either side. I would prefer a ball link but you are not supposed to use them on phenolic horns. I know lots of people do and I know lots of people have no issues with the clevis twisting on the horn with no added slop over time. It just doesn't seem like the best way to do it so I don't If the servo were mounted on its side with the arm sticking through the skin I would have less issues with it. Of course if the hole in the horn does wear it will be a pain to fix as they are glued in place.
    I like the MK horns but choose to try the new Central Hobbies horn that can adjust to an angled surface. (The elevator). They go through the surface with the screw in an aluminum button on the top. The button supplied was rather large so I substituted a couple of smaller ones from MK horns that I hadn't used in the past.

    I chose to have my servo arm perpendicular to the linkage at the neutral point. I know some prefer to have it perpendicular at the extremes of travel. I doubt it really matters with the strength of the servos we use. The cutout in the stab is parrallel to the stab root and not the hinge line. I drew a line perpendicular to the hinge line (I used the edge of the stab skin) to the servo arm for my horn position. I marked top and bottom at the same point and drilled a hole from both sides hopefully meeting in the middle. A length of 1/8" carbon rod placed through the hole helps to see if it is perpendicular to the elevator. Adjust as needed. Placing the horns in the same spot relative to the hinge line and at the same angle are crutial to getting identical throws on each elevator half. I made a small ply template for one horn and then made sure the second was set at the same angle. For control rods I like the 2mm titanium rod ends that Central Hobbies sells with 1/8" CF tube for my pushrods. The 2mm end are strong enough for our planes and have a very fine thread for easy adjustments. And they are light.

    Final weigt for the stabs with servos and hardware is 161 gms for the right and 159 for the left.
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  14. #64

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    RE: Comp ARF Valiant

    Real life continue to make this build go slower than I would have liked. I do like to build and remember all of the fiberglass and foam kits that I have built as well as 3 wood and foam XLT's, and 2 Desire's buillt from plans and 2 pieces of fiberglass. That was before kids and all of lifes responsibilities. Thank you for ARF's. Otherwise it would be next year by the time I finished this

    The aileron horns are installed similar to the elevator's. Using a bright light it is easy to see the wood block in the aileron. Careful as it is only about 10mm wide. The block in the elevator is much larger. I decided to add a carbon fiber sleeve to the ailerons and rudder to remove the little bit of compression of the surface that I saw in the elevators. (I may redo them as well).
    I found a CF tube at my LHS with a 3mm ID perfect for the horns I was using. I believe it is the Midwest brand. The ailerons were marked top and bottom. On my wing the hinge line was 6mm from the wing lip that overhangs the aileron and the horn connection is 7.5mm in front of the screw center. So the holes were placed about 13.5mm back from the wing overhang. A starter hole with the dremel to go through the fiberglass and then a sharpened piece of brass tubing finishes it up. Go in from both sides and hope you meet in the middle. I got lucky with both ailerons as the holes did not need any adjustment. As the wood block in the ailerons is only about 10mm wide I chose the center of it which came close enough to aligning with the servo arm. I glued in a piece of CF tube and sanded it flush. The control rods are the same as the elevators. 1/8" CF tube with Central Hobbies 2mm titanium rod ends glued in with JB Weld. A Dubro 2-56 ball link on the servo end and the new Central Hobbies aluminum horn that adjusts for angled surfaces with ball bearing link on the aileron. The aluminum portion had to be cut down in height. The JR 9411SA servos fit without modification of the mounting area.
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  15. #65

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    RE: Comp ARF Valiant

    I was told that the rudder horn supplied witht he first batch of kits was made with too much of an angle so that it could hit the fuse with full throw so I decided to go with a more standard rod through the rudder. I used 2 of the new Central hobbies horns to match the horns on the elevator and rudder with a piece of threaded 3mm rod long enough to work. The rudder is pretty thick back there. A couple of nuts and washers on the 3 mm rod would have done just as well and would be a bit cheaper

    I marked the fuse from the rudder servo to where I thought the rudder horn should go. Bright lighting the rudder did not work as it did with the aileron and elevator. Not sure if the paint is thicker or the structure is different but I could not make out the wood block. I marked where it was by feeling where the rudder skins did not compress. The center came out to be about 152mm from the bottom of the rudder which matches the point listed in the the Integral manual. (Valiant manual is not available yet). I used the same method as I did for the aileron. Turns out that I did not hit the center of the block but just got the top of it. About half of my CF tube would be glued to the block. Should not be a problem. I think the center hinge support fooled me into thinking that the block was larger. Like the aileron it is only about 10mm wide. So be careful to find the center. About 147 mm from the rudder bottom should work. I used a longer piece of 3mm rod through the CF tube to make sure that it was glued in proper alignment to the rudder.

    In order to figure out where the pull pull cables exit the fuse I drew the fuse top view on my bench from rudder servo to rudder horns. My rudder servo horn is about 50mm wide and the rudder horns came out to be 74mm apart. With straight cables the opening would be about 310mm from the rudder horns and with crossed cables 170mm from the rudder horns. I choose crossed cables. I like to have a guide tube through the fuse and glued in a short piece of 1/8" CF tube after filing in the slot at the right angle. I can't hook up my cables yet as I have to get some. My preferred cable which has never failed me is Berkly Steelon plastic coated wire fishing leader, 30 or 45# test. They sell the right size crimping sleeves as well.
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  16. #66

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    RE: Comp ARF Valiant

    Hi,
    I have just ordered a Valiant. I want to use YS 1.70
    I am not sure if it includes motor mount. In that case which motor mount must I use ?
    Also is there any pattern to drill the holes on the firewall ?

  17. #67

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    RE: Comp ARF Valiant

    The firewall for a glow engine is shown in my second post on this thread. It is the solid one. There are no templates or drilled holes as that will depend on your mount. Any standard firewall mount like the Hyde mount will work.

  18. #68

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    RE: Comp ARF Valiant

    Thank you.
    Which size prop is recommended for YS 1.70 on this airplane and what are the right and down thrusts of the engine for that prop ?

  19. #69

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    RE: Comp ARF Valiant

    Use a 19-11 APC or 18-12 APC
    the right and down thrust is molded in the front nose ring just line it up with that.
    Use a Hyde LR 85 Motor mount
    Bryan
    CKAero.net Team YS, Futaba, cool power, Central hobbies, Hyde Mounts, contra, xtreme composites

  20. #70

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    RE: Comp ARF Valiant

    Time to do the final construction. The last step will be the battery tray and I want everything else done so I can balance the plane with the battery and tray. The motor is installed with an APC 20.5 x 14. I like the Great Planes spinners and choose the white one for this plane. Red also works. The speed controller is installed with 2 nylon ties in front of the landing gear on the bottom of the fuse. Rudder cables were made from Berkley 35# test Steelon fishing leader. They are crossed and a small crossed guide is made from yellow nyrod material to keep the wires from rubbing on each other. The stabs were mounted with servo extensions to the elevator servos. A couple of pieces of foam tape just protruding past the lip of the stabs will hopefully reduce wear on the fuse. Similar setup can be seen on the wing root pictures. The elevator extensions added 13gms.

    I made a small equipment tray from CF honeycomb material to mount the receiver, flight pack battery and Jaccio 6.0 volt regulator. The tray with velcro added 7 gms. I never charge the flight pack battery in the plane so the charging lead from the switch/regulator was cut off (4 gms)

    The wing root needed a little work. First the nylon bolt is mounted into a rib and set back from the wing edge. First time I started tightening the wing to the fuse didn't sound too good. There is a space between the base of the bolt and fuse side, so this space needs to be built up with light balsa to be flush with the wing root. In addition several small pieces of balsa and foam wing saddle tape were positioned around the wing root to cushion the wing to the fuse junction.
    Final weights of the wing ready to fly are right 454 and left 466 gms.

    Final steps will be to cut out some air exhaust openings on the bottom of the fuse and then the battery mounting.

    Weight will be right at 5kg give or take a few grams. Current weight for the plane is 3780 gms. A Thunder Power pack with connectors is 1190 gms and a True RC pack is 1195 gms.
    This will leave me with a 30 gm leeway for battery mounting. I could have saved a few grams using the included control horns. Using the included steel wheel axels and landing gear mounting bolts would have made it more difficult to make weight. The cheaper slightly heavier battery packs would also be difficult to make weight with. A simple (not cheap) way to lose 60 gms or so would be to change the speed controller to the 80 amp YGE www.f3aunlimited.com A lighter PBG composites wing tube will also save 21 gms or so.

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  21. #71

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    RE: Comp ARF Valiant

    G'day mate,

    Just a quick observation, the ESC would probably have better cooling if you rotated it 90 degrees to get the airflow over the heatsink fins. Also bear in mind that carbon is very conductive and the ESC heatshrink could easilly wear through after some use. Perhaps consider an insulator between the ESC and fuse floor. Last thing you want is a smoke system in an F3A ship :-)

    Looking good.

    Cheers
    Jason.

  22. #72

    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    , NY
    Posts
    455

    RE: Comp ARF Valiant

    Final steps before flying. There is no air outlet from the fuse so exhaust holes have to be cut. Any design or pattern will do as long as they are large enough. The Valiant has a nice ridge molded in the bottom of the fuse that adds additional strength comparred to a simple rounded bottom. I would reccomend not cutting into this ridge for that reason. Keep your cooling hole pattern symetric to either side of the ridge.

    Last on the construction list is the battery tray. A dry fit of the batteries show that the plane is pretty tail heavy with my choice of components and placement. With that in mind I would reccomend installing everything as foward as possible in the main fuse area. I placed my battery/receiver/voltage regulator in the rear of the space which didn't help. I decided to remount the ESC on the lower rear of the firewall to help. For a battery tray I used the supplied fiberglass coated balsa sheet. It is supported in the rear by the forward landing gear support and in front by a piece of end grain balsa fiberglass laminate. A piece of the supplied balsa fiberglass sheet would work as well. A few pieces of 1/4" balsa square are glued to the bottom of the tray for additional gluing surface and alignment. For positioning my batteries. Instead of velcro I have a few scraps of end grain balsa/fiberglass material glued to the bottom of the battery packs leaving a slot for a 1/8" piece of CF tube. The CF tube is mounted to the tray and provides repeatable positioning of the battery packs. To change the CG the CF rod can be moved. 2 slotted pieces are at either side of the battery tray to reposition the CF tube. The CF tube can be moved foward or back from its current starting position. The CG is set at 1/8" behind the center of the wing tube which is what Bryan Herbert reccomends to start. I hold my batteries in by a screw down retainer made from lite ply and endgrain balsa fiberglass pieces. The same hold down is set up to be used in different planes. I make a different one for different size battery packs. When using different shape or size battery packs you have to make sure that the new one is positioned without changing the CG. What I do is balance the fuselage only with the wing tube supported on a couple of 2x4 uprights. Weight is hung from the tail wheel to balance the plane with the regular battery in its normal position. Now just swich to the new size pack and move till the fuse is balanced again. Mark the new packs position. I mark the position of the 1/8" CF tube and add my wood scraps to make a slot for the tube.

    Only thing left is to set up the throws, check that elevator halves are moving equally, and set up my speed control.

    Final weight with the TP V2 5300 pack is 5005 gms. Missed it by that much!

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  23. #73

    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    , NY
    Posts
    455

    RE: Comp ARF Valiant

    A couple of pictures of the assembled plane. More to come. The canopy needs a little shading around the lower edge
    Stuart
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  24. #74

    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    DENHAM SPRINGS , LA
    Posts
    547

    RE: Comp ARF Valiant

    Nice Job Stuart!
    you are a neat craftsman thanks for the build thred,
    Bryan
    CKAero.net Team YS, Futaba, cool power, Central hobbies, Hyde Mounts, contra, xtreme composites

  25. #75

    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    , NY
    Posts
    455

    RE: Comp ARF Valiant

    Thanks Bryan.

    Just a couple of better pictures to clarify my battery mounting. The CF rod on the battery tray stays in one of the many slots to hold the batteries position and is adjustable to move the CG.
    The battery hold down screws into a blind nut in the battery tray. The second CF rod is a spacer so the hold down can be tightened without deforming and breaking it.

    First flights were to be today but 15 to 20 mph winds are more than I like for first flights

    Stuart C.
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