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Comp ARF Valiant

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Old 02-24-2010, 10:41 AM
  #101
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Default RE: Comp ARF Valiant

Bryan

I pretty much figured out I need to go with the Hyde mount and that is what I ordered.

If you can get me a couple of closeups on the cheek home made version of the quick release I will be able to duplicate it, same for the canopy. I am assuming the one on the proto type from Japan is not available in US. [surprised Central does not carry this item] I have always used silicone on cowls & canopies it really prevents a lot of problems and is quiet.

A closeup of the plumbing both exterior and interior engine bay is all I need there. I already have all the hardware for this.

Stuart

Thanks for the update. Hope you get some flying weather soon.

I am getting pretty excited about getting this project in the air!!

Dick
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Old 02-24-2010, 12:30 PM
  #102
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Hi Pattratt,

I'm building a Valiant as well right now, and I have attached a few photos of the installation FYI.

Notes about the plumbing: I was originally planning on using the CH 45° fuel fittings and have a clamp on the fuel line outside of the plane, however I drilled the holes to far down on the fuselage causing the fuel line to get kinked against the engine. Therefore I went back to an old school design instead with a fuel filter outside without the 45° fittings. If you place the 45° fuel fittings higher on the fuse side they should work as well giving an even cleaner/more pro look...

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Old 02-24-2010, 12:34 PM
  #103
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Notes about the engine installation: I would recommend tilting the engine slightly clockwise (seen from the front) in order to make the header clear the under cowling better. The cowling has a bulge in it to give better room for the header however.

Notes about exhaust muffler: I have used the standard Hatori mounting hardware included with the muffler. I have reversed the mounting and screwed the self tapping mounting screws into the gear plate, should save a few grams since you will then not have to glue a support plate inside the fuse to attach the pipe mount to. You will have to use longer silicone tubing to get the pipe low enough. The original silicone tube is clear, but I had some white silicone tube in the right dimension and made two new supports out of it.

Notes about exhaust header: To avoid the header unscrewing from the engine I used an old trick I once saw on a Japanese web-site. They replace one of the 3mm bolts with a longer one that has been ground down to fit in between two cooling ribs. Should avoid a loose header when it hurts the most (during a competition....)

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Old 02-24-2010, 12:38 PM
  #104
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Notes about the rudder servo: In my installation at least the rudder servo would hit the cross brace installed below the servo plate, hence I removed it. Not sure that it is really needed on the Valiant since it is basically right underneath the servo plate. On the Integral it is behind the servo plate and highly needed in my experience.
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Old 02-24-2010, 12:43 PM
  #105
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Notes about canopy mounting: Well, it's a pain in the a**, but I did it this way using some of the supplied hardware....



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Old 02-24-2010, 12:50 PM
  #106
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Notes about general installation: I have used a K&S 600ml tank, since I had one and they are very light. I used some of the included balsa fiberglass laminate plate included in the kit to make a tank support. I will be placing the dual LiPo batteries on the top shelf. I used two aluminium tubes to lead the fuel/air between the tank and the engine compartment, primarily to save a little weight compared to just running fuel tubing all the way, it also looks cleaner...
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Old 02-24-2010, 01:20 PM
  #107
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: mola

Hi Pattratt,

I'm building a Valiant as well right now, and I have attached a few photos of the installation FYI.

Notes about the plumbing: I was originally planning on using the CH 45° fuel fittings and have a clamp on the fuel line outside of the plane, however I drilled the holes to far down on the fuselage causing the fuel line to get kinked against the engine. Therefore I went back to an old school design instead with a fuel filter outside without the 45° fittings. If you place the 45° fuel fittings higher on the fuse side they should work as well giving an even cleaner/more pro look...

Great pictures, but I keep wondering what the theory is to why people still run check valves on the vent line. There is absolutely no reason for this. If you take the check valve out of the line, your engine will NOT flood while just sitting. If the check valve is in the vent line and the air temps go up, it builds pressure which forces fuel into the engine, thus causing it to flood. After well over 3000 flights on DZ engines, I have NEVER run a check valve and have never had an issue with fuel leaking out the vent line. Guys flying the big gassers don't use check valves on their vent lines either. I've even talked to Richard Verano about this and he agreed, there is no reason to do this. If you take the check valve out of the vent line the use of something to "pinch" the fuel lines on the outside is no longer necessary.

Arch
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Old 02-24-2010, 01:42 PM
  #108
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Morten

Thanks for the pictures. this helps clarify some items.


ANYONE following this thread know what size TruTurn FAI spinner is required??

Thanks to all for the feedback.

Dick
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Old 02-24-2010, 01:45 PM
  #109
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Hi Arch,

I like to have a closed system that won't leak during transport, storage etc.. I previously used the same type of plumbing system on my Zeque and Aries and liked it. Looks nice as well, but that is subjective naturally....

I'm sure your system works nicely as well, I'm just used to this system.
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Old 02-24-2010, 01:46 PM
  #110
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Nice Shots Mola ,thanks,

Arch, I never defuel My airplane, I fly till dark mostly and can`t see when it`s time to pick up,
I also I carry my airplanes in my XC90 Volvo, They rest on a carpet backed folded seat setup so,
I don`t wan`t to have any leakage,dripping from the tank, vent lines EXC My wife would not like smelling cool power air freshener

If you have a just a vent ,it leaks a little all the time during flying, at rest from carrying the airplane ECT,you have to worry everytime about rolling the airplane over to check the engine ,roll back drip ,drip, ,ECT but with the check valve setup,I rarely have to clean the engine compartment. it stays clean.
Also if you have a two stage paint job like in Japan the paint is not fuel proof so any leaking from this area will crawl under the exit,,painting area ,and ruin the paint,, thats why guys are so carfull about this set up.
All of the paint in mold composite fuse paints will discolor a little with 30% nitro.as well if not cleaned ASAP.

A professional, leak free ,fuel setup makes a engine compartment tunnel area leak free ,and there is no chance for a ruined paint job
If done right you can eat off of the pipe mount,engine compartment area after 20 flights


It`s Just like if the engine is tuned correctly you can fly 10 flights and have almost nothing to wipe off the bottom of the airplane ,,,and pick up fuel economy to boot..so it`s about perfectionism really!

The only down side is you have to be carfull in the heat ,, a little clamp is all you need or remove your fuel dot from the exit in the vent line and put it in the fuel line while the airplane sets on the line ,,,then it`s vented like your system.
It`s the way I set all my airplanes up But,your way works ok too.
Bryan
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Old 02-24-2010, 01:50 PM
  #111
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Spinner size is 82mm or 3 1/4".
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Old 02-24-2010, 02:01 PM
  #112
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Bryan,

I will put a dot in the vent line after I'm done flying, but I just don't use the check valve for flying. I've never noticed any evidence of it leaking during flight. That being said, I also have a loop in mine, just like we do on the big gassers to prevent it from leaking during flight. Personal preference I guess. My vent line is accessible easily through the opening in my chin cowl on the bottom.

Arch
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Old 02-26-2010, 07:47 AM
  #113
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ORIGINAL: rcpattern

Bryan,

I will put a dot in the vent line after I'm done flying, but I just don't use the check valve for flying. I've never noticed any evidence of it leaking during flight. That being said, I also have a loop in mine, just like we do on the big gassers to prevent it from leaking during flight. Personal preference I guess. My vent line is accessible easily through the opening in my chin cowl on the bottom.

Arch
My Webra powered Temptress has the vent outside the plane. During the first couple flights as I recall, I had fuel leaking all over the side of the fuse. I first used a loop in the vent line inside the fuse, which helped but didn't eliminate the in flight leak from the vent. I then went with the check valve and have not had leaks in flight since, some 1700 flights or so.

Point is, set-ups and fuel consumprtion vary. In my Webra setup, it turned out to be necessary.

Arch, funny you mentioned gassers....the walbro carbs don't allow fuel in unless the engine is turned or at least rocked back and forth between TDC and BDC. A check valve in their vents is of no consequence regarding engine flooding. I intend to use the device in that set-up also for the SAP 180 to help reduce gas fumes when transporting the crate.
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Old 02-26-2010, 12:01 PM
  #114
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: MTK


Arch, funny you mentioned gassers....the walbro carbs don't allow fuel in unless the engine is turned or at least rocked back and forth between TDC and BDC. A check valve in their vents is of no consequence regarding engine flooding. I intend to use the device in that set-up also for the SAP 180 to help reduce gas fumes when transporting the crate.
MattK

NO out, but lets air in??? right??

Do you pull it off when you fuel??
Otherwise the tank will blow up....
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Old 02-26-2010, 12:13 PM
  #115
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Exactly. You want to let air in the tank, but not out. If you use the check valve, you will need to clamp the fuel line after each flight to prevent it from flooding.

Arch
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Old 02-26-2010, 02:13 PM
  #116
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: rcpattern

Exactly. You want to let air in the tank, but not out. If you use the check valve, you will need to clamp the fuel line after each flight to prevent it from flooding.

Arch
I guess I didn't realize the current fuel delivery system on YS floods so easily. My last experience with YS was 8 or 9 years ago where one wanted a pressurized tank.

Have never flooded the Webra because of pressure build up in the tank in the hottest Florida days.

On a gas engine with the walbro carb, it's non-sequiter

Matt
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Old 02-26-2010, 02:16 PM
  #117
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Default RE: Comp ARF Valiant

With the DZ's they will flood if the tank builds up pressure while just sitting around. That's why you will see a lot of hemostats and clamps on lines when the planes are sitting around. I took the check valve out and this stopped as it gives the tank a chance to truly vent.

Arch
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Old 02-26-2010, 02:48 PM
  #118
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Arch,
The 1.7`s are not nearly as bad as the 1.6`s used to be for this.
Also if you have your tank mounted high,, (over the wing tube ) and run a header tank, it`s worse
My tank is mounted below the engine under the wing tube ,I use no header tank system.
The 1.7`s will only flood if you set your airplane in the direct sun for long periods of time. and fill the tank to the tip top.

I use the little clamp on mine as a precaution but it`s not a big deal, unless you leave it in the car in extreme heat, and forget to clamp it. on the flight line,You can also remove the fuel line from the front nipple, and take the fuel dot out of the vent hose exit,, thats tee`d from the check valve, and put it in the fuel line ,if your afraid of it flooding,
Thats what most of the guys do around here running the 1.6`s

Earl Haury perfected the system you are using years ago , he had his very well done with the neat loop in the exit ect. it worked great for him, as I`m sure it does for you, it`s a product of habits and what we are used to doing But, to me,

The small effort with the clamp is worth it to me and the Japan team for a clean engine cowling
and to preserve a perfect airframe, or a japanese quality paint job.

The original question from you is why we use it, I was not trying to debate who had the better system so,,these are the reasons why we use it.
Bryan
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Old 02-26-2010, 03:42 PM
  #119
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G'day guys,

I used to use both a check valve and KS fuel line clamp on my OS 1.40RX. Now I don't use either of them and have no trouble at all with fuel spillage or oil getting all over the place. I've gone 100% electric!

Sorry guys, couldn't help myself...

Cheers
Jason.
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Old 02-26-2010, 03:53 PM
  #120
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: Aussie_Knife_Edge

G'day guys,

I used to use both a check valve and KS fuel line clamp on my OS 1.40RX. Now I don't use either of them and have no trouble at all with fuel spillage or oil getting all over the place. I've gone 100% electric!

Sorry guys, couldn't help myself...

Cheers
Jason.
I think both Archie and Bryan (and me too) like to shoot a stream of liquid excrement on electric....but we might get a jolt in the worst place. LOL.

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Old 02-26-2010, 04:04 PM
  #121
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Being a long time student of the Earl H methods here's a pic of what Bryan is describing. Works fantastic, with this there is no need for a check valve on the vent line....have used this configuration on several planes along with a clamp on the pick-up line to the engine. I also concur with Bryan the 170's are less prone to flooding. I have forgotten to clamp the line before fueling with no ill results on the 170.

I would add the exterior fuel line and clamp serves as a site glass to the fuel delivery system. After spinning the the engine with a starter without out glo heat to prime, you can tell if fuel has been drawn to the engine for starting and whether there is bubbles in the line which will make the engine harder to start or die while idling after starting. Bubbles can also make the engine kick hard and whack the airframe/cowl if you know what I mean.

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Old 02-26-2010, 04:28 PM
  #122
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lol
Now that was funny Matt,
Arch ,Glen,and I have had good success with with Ys engines, they just keep making them better and better they are so sweet to run it just adds to the ys brand that there is more than one way to keep them running happy.
And, we build on our results and refine our own methods,,

LOL,, Jason,
I have no issues with guys that fly electric, they have there advantages as well ,However at the Worlds I saw a guy smoke a motor, The stink on that airplane was so strong ,I don`t think you could have got it out of the car, house, or airframe, for weeks. You got to love electrical fires

so ,, nothing is perfect but I must say , Glen, that`s a beautiful set up, and very near perfect.
Bryan
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Old 02-26-2010, 04:48 PM
  #123
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G'day Bryan,

I'm an Electronics Technician by trade and agree that nothing stinks quite as bad as burnt electronics. The smell lingers too.[:'(] With proper component selection, maintenance and no abuse, electric has too many advantages to ignore. Having said all that, don't use steel hardware as it will rust! No oil to keep thing un-rusted.[&:]

One thing to note from Glenn's photo, I would replace the aluminium tubing with anealled copper tubing. Tom Prosser gave me that tip. The aluminium after time will crystalise and then crack. Brass tube apparently splits. It's the vibration that does it over time. Kind of like bending a wire until it breaks if that makes sense.

PS. I will be seeing Chris Swain today. I believe you met him at the Worlds in Portugal. He's up for a one-day comp at my club this weekend.

Cheers
Jason.
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Old 02-26-2010, 05:09 PM
  #124
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: Aussie_Knife_Edge

G'day Bryan,

I'm an Electronics Technician by trade and agree that nothing stinks quite as bad as burnt electronics. The smell lingers too.[:'(] With proper component selection, maintenance and no abuse, electric has too many advantages to ignore. Having said all that, don't use steel hardware as it will rust! No oil to keep thing un-rusted.[&:]

One thing to note from Glenn's photo, I would replace the aluminium tubing with anealled copper tubing. Tom Prosser gave me that tip. The aluminium after time will crystalise and then crack. Brass tube apparently splits. It's the vibration that does it over time. Kind of like bending a wire until it breaks if that makes sense.

PS. I will be seeing Chris Swain today. I believe you met him at the Worlds in Portugal. He's up for a one-day comp at my club this weekend.

Cheers
Jason.
Better and lighter than both is polyethylene tubing. Brass/copper catalyze methanol into acetic acid over time. One of the main causes of corrosion in glow set-ups. Plastic tubing eliminates the possibility and forms easily with a touch of heat from a monokote heat gun

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Old 02-26-2010, 06:30 PM
  #125
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Hey Bryan

Valiant arrived today in perfect condition along with $800 worth of accesories to get it finished!! Any news on the uploading of the building instructions and photos to CARF's web-site. When you get a chance will you PM your cell # to me. I want to be able to call you at 4:00 AM in the morning when I get stuck on something!

I will be weighing all the componets tonight and getting everything ready to start the build.

My initail impression was "how did they get the fuse so light??" Everything on the kit is finished superbly. My only complaint [which I new already] was the canopy attachment was not done at the factory. There are no real variables here and I really feel for the price of the kit it should be done. The other odd thing was the rudder tray not being installed? No variables here either. In the "Skeem of things" they are very minor. Maybe that's why Oaxi kits are $3500 in which case I am very happy to install them myself! LOL

Unless you feel there are moore appropiate servos [Let me know if there is] I am going to use the following:

Rudder 9156
aileron 9154
Elevator 9650

Beautiful Kit!!

Dick
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