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CDI ignition battery in receiver or direct from battery

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Old 01-01-2010, 07:32 AM
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Jon Wold
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Default CDI ignition battery in receiver or direct from battery

Question for CDi-people who power their ignition from the RX-battery: Do you plug the ignition box in a vacant receiver servo slot, or do you draw current directly from the battery without going via the receiver?
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Old 01-01-2010, 08:03 AM
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Default RE: CDI ignition battery in receiver or direct from battery


Quote:
ORIGINAL: Jon Wold

Question for CDi-people who power their ignition from the RX-battery: Do you plug the ignition box in a vacant receiver servo slot, or do you draw current directly from the battery without going via the receiver?
Do you fly 2.4 gig?

MattK
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Old 01-01-2010, 08:07 AM
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Default RE: CDI ignition battery in receiver or direct from battery


Quote:
ORIGINAL: MTK


Quote:
ORIGINAL: Jon Wold

Question for CDi-people who power their ignition from the RX-battery: Do you plug the ignition box in a vacant receiver servo slot, or do you draw current directly from the battery without going via the receiver?
Do you fly 2.4 gig?

MattK
If you do, you want to get a Tech Aero IBE. It is an optically isolated and filtered electronic switch that connects your ignition module to the receiver. Choose the port and configure it such that it is armed with one of the convenient levers or buttons on the Tx. There is an LED light that tells you when you are armed or off that mounts pointing outside of the fuse. Very nice set-up.

Matt
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Old 01-02-2010, 09:19 AM
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Default RE: CDI ignition battery in receiver or direct from battery

Futaba 2.4. I have a turnigy transmitter operated switch wired between rx and ignition battery. The good thing about the switch is that it is set to off as failsafe with a jumper. Was just wondering if it is common to draw ignition current from rx instead of splitting the battery wire.
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Old 01-02-2010, 09:24 AM
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Default RE: CDI ignition battery in receiver or direct from battery

It does mainly depends on the airplane weight I think, if you can use a separate battery then do it, if you can't then it can be taken from the receiver.
I use a 1800mAh for the receiver and a 1320mAH for the ignition and they last about the same time, we use JRR921s, a friend of mine went to the Rx directly to make the weight, the results were the same, so it's really up to your liking.

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Old 01-02-2010, 01:45 PM
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Default RE: CDI ignition battery in receiver or direct from battery

Dear All,
I am also on this CDI page with my new project. So,

MATT, can you advise a link to the Tech Aero IBE optically isolated and filtered electronic switch?
Apereira: What do you use to regulates the voltage to the CDI Unit?

Thanks
Amram
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Old 01-02-2010, 04:27 PM
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Default RE: CDI ignition battery in receiver or direct from battery

Hi,

I've been doing some experimentation with current draw for the airborne pack and CDi unit, throughout a typical flight involving the P11 schedule plus some repeats. The average (1.2A) and peak current (2.52A) is much less than I expected, and total charge drawn (206 mAh) for a 13 minute flight. The airborne pack comprised:

Powerbox Digi switch
Futaba 9151 rudder servo x 1
Futaba 9150 aileron servos x 2
Futaba 9650 elevator servos x 2
Futaba 9650 throttle servos x 1
Futaba 608 2.4 GHz Rx
Eagle tree data logger

and the CDi system was fed directly from the 608 Rx via a spare channel and external toggle switch. One ferrite ring was between Rx and CDi unit. This has been used for about a year now with no issues. Battery was an FP 2S 910 mAh Lipo.

Interesting to see max current draw correlates when airborne with engine idling.

Keith

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Old 01-02-2010, 06:31 PM
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Default RE: CDI ignition battery in receiver or direct from battery

Hi Amram,

I'm using the Shulman Aviation regulator, very light, small and good, also used the Duralite but the connectors are not good quality, they are not tight, but the regulator is very good too, is heavier than the Shulman.

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Old 01-03-2010, 02:46 AM
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Default RE: CDI ignition battery in receiver or direct from battery

Thanks you.
I made a drawing based on Kieth suggestion with one change of using Tunrigy remote switch to allow ignition on/off from TX.
I could not find anywhere information about Shulman 6V regulator.
any comment?

Amram

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Old 01-03-2010, 09:52 AM
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Default RE: CDI ignition battery in receiver or direct from battery

Hello Amram,

Here is a picture of the swiches I use,

Powerbox Digiswitch 5.5V 5Amp Fail safe on 17.7gr (using my own scale) batteries 7.4V only(8.4V when fully charged 7.4V Lipo) this is my Rx Sw. Best quality connectors
Shulman Regulator 5.1 to 5.6V 10Amp (20Amp surge) 13.9gr Batteries up to 30V, so you can use 11.1V LiPos the switched version is fail safe on.Jr Swicth is 11gr(reference). Ignition. Very good quality connectors
Duralite Switched Regulator 6V 7.5 Amp 34.7gr up to 6 to 8.4V 34.7gr Fail Safe on. Ignition. Poor quality connectors.

The regulator is not in their web site, I called Don Shulman directly on the web site phone number. I was thinking at the Turnigy remote sw, I wonder how reliable it is, please let me know if you use it,thanks.

Hope this helps
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Old 01-03-2010, 10:43 AM
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Default RE: CDI ignition battery in receiver or direct from battery

Thank yuo Apereira,
It is not clear to me why do you use 2 regulators.
I agree that PowerBox Digi-Switch is great solution while it is also a regulator so you have regulated 5.5V to the Rx.
Why do you need an extra regulator?
Amram

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Old 01-03-2010, 10:53 AM
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Default RE: CDI ignition battery in receiver or direct from battery

It's because I'm using Lipos and the CDI can take up to 6V, so one battery for the receiver the other for the CDI, on my setup I'm using the Digiswith for the Rx and the regular sw with the Shulman regulator, I'm at 5Kg with both regulators and dual batteries. If I use only one battery I need to use a bigger battery anyway, so weight will be increased anyway.
I saw in your diagram that you intend to use a 910mAh battery? I was using two Flight Power Evo 800mAh each and gave me 4 flights before recharging, I do not like to fly under 50% capacity, and the receiver and CDI take approximatly the same wich is about 110mAh each on a 12min flight.

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Old 01-03-2010, 12:19 PM
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Default RE: CDI ignition battery in receiver or direct from battery


Quote:
ORIGINAL: amram

Thank yuo Apereira,
It is not clear to me why do you use 2 regulators.
I agree that PowerBox Digi-Switch is great solution while it is also a regulator so you have regulated 5.5V to the Rx.
Why do you need an extra regulator?
Amram

Amram,

Take a look here http://www.tech-aero.net/plr5-dr2

Dual regulators for dual LIpo batteries. Split the capacity between the two batteries, say around 750 ma each, for redundancy or your airborne power supply. It is a programmable regulator which I believe you can set up to around 6.6 volts output. I have mine set at 6.2V.

It is cheap insurance. One can argue why get a 150$ power supply for the airborne system (dual regs plus 2 2 cell Lipos) when one can use a 25$ NiMH battery of similar capacity. Indeed that's what I've used for the past 10 years, but I am switching in the new plane which is almost ready. Over 3 years in development, why should I trust it to the 25$ NiMH?

Ed is coming out with an IBE for CDI systems soon. I am using a prototype system that is working great in my 12X. No need for a third battery if you use dual batteries for the airborne system.

BTW, all of these electronic goodies are extremely lightweight.

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Old 01-03-2010, 12:33 PM
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Default RE: CDI ignition battery in receiver or direct from battery

Thank you Apereira and Matt,
It is all very clear now.
Regadrs
Amram

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Old 01-03-2010, 03:17 PM
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Default RE: CDI ignition battery in receiver or direct from battery

Hi Amram,

Originally I used an Emcotec DPSI micro RCS switch which served as both regulator down to 5.5V and as a switch. It was connected to the Rx and slaved to the throttle cut but the power came directly from the Lipo after the main on-off switch. This worked well but I was concerned that there was no physical sign to show that the CDi unit was armed and eventually I changed to a circuit with an external toggle switch between Rx and CDi ignition unit. Thus the CDi unit now has to be switched on physically and can only be active if the Rx has power to it.

The Emcotec unit weighed only 22g and seemed to work very well; I think it’s rated up to 20A even though the CDi unit only draws about 0.3A at 7600 rpm.

BTW I only use a 910 mAh pack only to save weight; My Axiome with the CDi unit fitted is dead on 5 kg hence I have to shave weight where I can and there’s nowhere left to take it from other than deleting things like spats etc. The TP 910mAh 2S pack weighs only 51g, but I need slightly less weight so today I trialled a TP 730mAh 2S pack which weighs only 41g. The results were consistent with all my trials and used:

Total charge: 169mAh (23% of pack)
Max current 2.6 A
Duration from engine start to land 11.0 minutes
Conditions: -1C and 5 mph wind

This flight included one P11 schedule and several repeats; in fact the schedule finished at 7 mins 45 s.

So I think that the 730mAh pack has plenty of capacity and current handling for an FAI flight (either P11 or F11) and its easy to change the pack after each competition flight as it mounts underneath the Canaliser, so no need to remove the belly pan and wing etc. So ok I’ll have four packs to carry round but I’ll only ever use these for competition.

Best wishes

Keith





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Old 01-04-2010, 09:29 AM
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Default RE: CDI ignition battery in receiver or direct from battery

Hello Amram,

Just changed prop and went from 17x13( I ussually stick with this until I have 40 flights) to the 18.5x12WPN and the mAh draw went back to 76mAh per flight on the P11. My Jr gear is still at 136mAh per flight but it was very wind, comming from my back.

Hope the info is ussefull.
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Old 01-04-2010, 01:23 PM
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Default RE: CDI ignition battery in receiver or direct from battery


Quote:
ORIGINAL: apereira

Hello Amram,

Just changed prop and went from 17x13( I ussually stick with this until I have 40 flights) to the 18.5x12WPN and the mAh draw went back to 76mAh per flight on the P11. My Jr gear is still at 136mAh per flight but it was very wind, comming from my back.

Hope the info is ussefull.
Apereira,
What engine are you running? What rpm? What fuel? Temp and barometric pressure?

Thanks

MattK
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Old 01-04-2010, 05:43 PM
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Default RE: CDI ignition battery in receiver or direct from battery

YS 170CDI, 7400RPM Cool Power 30% High Performance Heli, 22C, 26,90mHg


Regards
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Old 01-04-2010, 09:43 PM
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Default RE: CDI ignition battery in receiver or direct from battery


Quote:
ORIGINAL: apereira

YS 170CDI, 7400RPM Cool Power 30% High Performance Heli, 22C, 26,90mHg


Regards
Thanks Apereira,

Is that for the 17x13 or for the 18.5x12? Or are they running the same?

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Old 01-05-2010, 03:30 AM
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Default RE: CDI ignition battery in receiver or direct from battery

Hello all,
Keith and Apereira, Can you advise which motor mount do you use on your Axiome.
Now that I have all parts in my hand I can Ignore the manufacturers (“Ice captions”) specification and look at real life weight:
170DZ + YS Mount + nose ring with all firewall support, screws, washers, nuts etc = 1140 grams. (40.2oz)
CDI Unit is 108 grams. (3.81oz)

Regards

Amram

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Old 01-05-2010, 03:43 AM
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Default RE: CDI ignition battery in receiver or direct from battery

Hi Amram,

I normally use the Hyde LR85 mount which weighs ~102g, though you also need a nose ring, which Merle can also supply. This is a great mount, perfectly suited to the CDi engine and is fitted with internal limiters to prevent airframe strike if the engine kicks or goes through a system resonance. Also the whole assembly won't move back when you press your electric starter on the spinner, as does the YS mount, meaning you can have a safe, close gap between spinner and fuselage.

Hope this helps

Keith
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Old 01-05-2010, 04:32 AM
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Default RE: CDI ignition battery in receiver or direct from battery

Hello Keith,
The Firewall comes from Oxai is ready for YS mount but this is not a big deal as the firewall comes with the model is
Wooden made and weight 65 grams. I will definitely replace it with Honeycomb and will save 40 Grams.
Up until today I used to work with HDYE mounts only and Honeycomb firewalls with no problems.
CPLR also used LR85 on his WC winner Axiome ship. The only issue is that the HYDE mount solutions is shorter so
in order to properly fit it inside the Axiome it is required to build some sort of support to fill for Gap.
Did you have to add support for the LR85?
Reagrds
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Old 01-05-2010, 08:09 AM
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Default RE: CDI ignition battery in receiver or direct from battery

Hello all,

MTK, 17x13 110mAh 8200RPM max , 18.5x12 76mAh 7400RPM max, both on a 12min flight, flying P11, I ussually fly at half power and 3/4 on verticals, some times full to adjust speed or just before the snap on P11.

Amram, I'm the exact same setup you are using on my Axiome(still building), we bought two, me flying buddy got hos finished with that engine setup, double Rx Digiswitch, dual batteries, and regualtor for the CDI and came up to 4985Kg, barely, but there. The Oxai nose ring is the best O ring type nose ring I have seen so far, and we use the Ys mount as it's the softest running in my opinnion, I'm using the Super Mount 3, wich is heavier than the 2.

I'm going to use a Camodel spiner as it's 30 or more gr lighter, I don't remember the exact number but I can weight it if you want, even the Truturn is lighter than the Oxai.

Best regards
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Old 01-05-2010, 08:24 AM
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Default RE: CDI ignition battery in receiver or direct from battery

The 3.25" spiner comes with the Axiome is 64grams. There must be a lighter solutions that that.
PLease let me know if you happen to have the CA Spinner and its real weight (Not interested in Manufecturers "soft ice" Web weight declerations)
Good luck with your Axiome.
Amram
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Old 01-05-2010, 08:45 AM
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Default RE: CDI ignition battery in receiver or direct from battery

This is with my balance, please note the Tru turn and the Camodel are being weighed with the attaching bolt as the Oxai has the four bolts installed.

Oxai 62.6gr
Truturn anodized 59.9
Camodel with standard backplate 36.5gr
lightened Backplate 32gr

I lightened the backplate on my lathe as the it was too thick, I'm using the lightened backplate on my Osmose Evo with the Y170CDI with YS Supermount 2 complete, I have a 1/16" gap with no rubbing on the fuselage, but i"m using a Kavan starter with the soft silicon cup which has much more grip and it does not slip, so I don't need to press hard against the spinner, one thing I had problems with was the Truturn backplate bending back and touching the fuselage, it was because of the spinner cut done by Truturn for 19x11, the hole it's so big that it will distort the back plate if tightened too much.

On the other hand the Camodel's keeps the shape, but it last about 200 flights( I think) so I bought several CF spare cones.

P.D. I always weight my accesories with my balance, don't even know what the manufacturers call for their weight, as the tolerances are always different, i.e. your Axiome might be ligther or heavier than mine.

Regards
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