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Voters: 42. You may not vote on this poll
Flying "F" at local contests
03-04-2010, 04:20 PM
#26
My Feedback: (4)
RE: Flying
As a D7 FAI pilot (okay not a REAL one, but I like to pretend anyway) I think that Matt K's idea could be a pretty good compromise. It would allow most of us to fly what we can or want and let everybody work towards their goal... I do have a couple of concerns with it though, and maybe it's better for us to discuss it within the district, but I'll throw it out here anyway.
I agree that people who are flying Masters and FAI likely have enough 'wood' in their closets to start their own individual trophy shops, and for most of us it's not about bringing another shiny object home to hang on the wall and point at, pound our chest, and proclaim how great we are for winning a trophy at a "toy airplane" contest... it is however a competition, where we compete against each other, as well as ourselves.
If we hold contests that allow the contestants to choose which sequence we fly, we are diminishing the 'contest' portion of the event. To me, on a basic level, it would be similar to saying that I think that last years Master's sequence, or maybe a new sequence to be effective the next season, was more challenging so I want to fly that one, so please score me based on those maneuvers... Or maybe the argument wouldn't be that it is more challenging, maybe the argument is that it's now October, I want to fly next year's schedule to get ready for the Nats or something... And THEN, lumping all the results together and giving out 1st-3rd... kind of diminishes the results doesn't it? If that is what a group wants to do, fine... but let's be honest, it's not a real contest at that point, let's just call it a fun fly or practice session and be done with it.
But let's say that we allow a mixed bag at contests and people can choose to fly F or just P... what happens at the district champs? Same thing? How would it be for those who flew F all year to finish below somebody who just flew P? Conversely, how would it be for those who flew P all year to finish below somebody who flew a different sequence? Forget about which is more difficult, we all know it takes more time and effort to set up for two sequences, the fact is that it is not a fair comparison when contestants are judged differently. So again, why keep score?
I do understand the argument for getting ready for the Nats. My only Nats appearance was many moons ago when I was a kid, but I really would like to go again and I applaud the effort and commitment it takes to go... especially for those on the left coast due to the distance and expense. But since there are so few that go... do we need to upset the apple cart for the majority for that minority?
Please understand, I'm not saying "NO NO NO NO NO!" and throwing a tantrum and crying for Mommy, here... I would either go along with the consensus, or make a decision based on the consensus for my future class of choice... I'm in it for fun (this time around lol), rather than the drama or killer-instinct-type-competition... for me it's really all about the Sat. dinner/beer with the guys... WITH THAT SAID... for sake the of debate....
If we have a majority, with the FAI pilots in the district, that want to fly F in some sort of fashion... Matts idea is a pretty good one to consider and I personally think that we should talk about how that could work.
If we have a majority, again with the FAI pilots in the district, that DON'T want to fly F in some sort of fashion during contests... why make things complicated? Why change the whole basis for the competition just for two to four guys out of around 15? And I think, that is where we are at least in D7... I could be wrong, we should get an email discussion going on to find out where we all stand and decide that way...
Somebody said that by round 3 or 4 the contest is decided anyway so why not throw F into it after those are done? Well, if we are still talking about just a couple of people who want to do it, and the contest is decided anyway.... and furthermore, we all have enough trophys anyway... why not just let those guys go to the CD/judges for their rounds 5 & 6, much like Chip did at the Districts last year, and say... hey, I'm done flying P, could you judge me on F and let me have some practice and give me some feedback? I don't think anybody would mind that... in fact, you could get the regular judges out of the chair and let the other FAI guys who are flying P judge the flight... most of them are watching anyway...
Taking that idea a step further, if there are enough contestants interested, what about running a separate 6 round F "class"? Obviously this would have to be with the CD's help and approval and advertised in advance... but at least in D7 for the handful of guys that might want to do it, you could get 6 rounds of practice in front of judges... again, you could use the FAI "P" guys as well as the usual suspects as judges.
Just an idea... If we, D7, decide as a district that we want to move in the same direction as other districts and incorporate F into the local contests that's fine, this is a good discussion. But I think it's got to be a majority that wish it to happen... and if not, if we don't have a majority, but individual CDs want to incorporate it into their own contests (as they have every right to do) they need to advertise this well in advance so that others know what to practice, or have enough information to base their decision on whether or not they are going to attend. I'm fairly certain that if there is some doubt as to what we are going to fly, how it's going to be scored, if we are going to be the only one flying F or P, etc... we could see some contestants either moving to Masters or not attending at all.
Speaking as a CD who has shown up at a contest wondering where everybody is at, taking a bath losing several hundred bucks of his own money on trophys not handed out, and food not eaten... attendance is key, and we want to make sure at least that our regulars will show up before we worry about who might or might not be interested in giving it a try.
If the goal is to move to a direction of promoting the F sequence within our district, I think an interim step is required... either separate class, or contestants using their throw away rounds to fly is the way to go in the short term. Watching guys all season fly F just might inspire "P" guys to trying it next season, or maybe for a throw away round... but I just don't see a reason to change everything, or diminish the results by mixing and matching sequences at a contest.
But I could be wrong, and I often am.
Respectfully,
Tom Messer
I agree that people who are flying Masters and FAI likely have enough 'wood' in their closets to start their own individual trophy shops, and for most of us it's not about bringing another shiny object home to hang on the wall and point at, pound our chest, and proclaim how great we are for winning a trophy at a "toy airplane" contest... it is however a competition, where we compete against each other, as well as ourselves.
If we hold contests that allow the contestants to choose which sequence we fly, we are diminishing the 'contest' portion of the event. To me, on a basic level, it would be similar to saying that I think that last years Master's sequence, or maybe a new sequence to be effective the next season, was more challenging so I want to fly that one, so please score me based on those maneuvers... Or maybe the argument wouldn't be that it is more challenging, maybe the argument is that it's now October, I want to fly next year's schedule to get ready for the Nats or something... And THEN, lumping all the results together and giving out 1st-3rd... kind of diminishes the results doesn't it? If that is what a group wants to do, fine... but let's be honest, it's not a real contest at that point, let's just call it a fun fly or practice session and be done with it.
But let's say that we allow a mixed bag at contests and people can choose to fly F or just P... what happens at the district champs? Same thing? How would it be for those who flew F all year to finish below somebody who just flew P? Conversely, how would it be for those who flew P all year to finish below somebody who flew a different sequence? Forget about which is more difficult, we all know it takes more time and effort to set up for two sequences, the fact is that it is not a fair comparison when contestants are judged differently. So again, why keep score?
I do understand the argument for getting ready for the Nats. My only Nats appearance was many moons ago when I was a kid, but I really would like to go again and I applaud the effort and commitment it takes to go... especially for those on the left coast due to the distance and expense. But since there are so few that go... do we need to upset the apple cart for the majority for that minority?
Please understand, I'm not saying "NO NO NO NO NO!" and throwing a tantrum and crying for Mommy, here... I would either go along with the consensus, or make a decision based on the consensus for my future class of choice... I'm in it for fun (this time around lol), rather than the drama or killer-instinct-type-competition... for me it's really all about the Sat. dinner/beer with the guys... WITH THAT SAID... for sake the of debate....
If we have a majority, with the FAI pilots in the district, that want to fly F in some sort of fashion... Matts idea is a pretty good one to consider and I personally think that we should talk about how that could work.
If we have a majority, again with the FAI pilots in the district, that DON'T want to fly F in some sort of fashion during contests... why make things complicated? Why change the whole basis for the competition just for two to four guys out of around 15? And I think, that is where we are at least in D7... I could be wrong, we should get an email discussion going on to find out where we all stand and decide that way...
Somebody said that by round 3 or 4 the contest is decided anyway so why not throw F into it after those are done? Well, if we are still talking about just a couple of people who want to do it, and the contest is decided anyway.... and furthermore, we all have enough trophys anyway... why not just let those guys go to the CD/judges for their rounds 5 & 6, much like Chip did at the Districts last year, and say... hey, I'm done flying P, could you judge me on F and let me have some practice and give me some feedback? I don't think anybody would mind that... in fact, you could get the regular judges out of the chair and let the other FAI guys who are flying P judge the flight... most of them are watching anyway...
Taking that idea a step further, if there are enough contestants interested, what about running a separate 6 round F "class"? Obviously this would have to be with the CD's help and approval and advertised in advance... but at least in D7 for the handful of guys that might want to do it, you could get 6 rounds of practice in front of judges... again, you could use the FAI "P" guys as well as the usual suspects as judges.
Just an idea... If we, D7, decide as a district that we want to move in the same direction as other districts and incorporate F into the local contests that's fine, this is a good discussion. But I think it's got to be a majority that wish it to happen... and if not, if we don't have a majority, but individual CDs want to incorporate it into their own contests (as they have every right to do) they need to advertise this well in advance so that others know what to practice, or have enough information to base their decision on whether or not they are going to attend. I'm fairly certain that if there is some doubt as to what we are going to fly, how it's going to be scored, if we are going to be the only one flying F or P, etc... we could see some contestants either moving to Masters or not attending at all.
Speaking as a CD who has shown up at a contest wondering where everybody is at, taking a bath losing several hundred bucks of his own money on trophys not handed out, and food not eaten... attendance is key, and we want to make sure at least that our regulars will show up before we worry about who might or might not be interested in giving it a try.
If the goal is to move to a direction of promoting the F sequence within our district, I think an interim step is required... either separate class, or contestants using their throw away rounds to fly is the way to go in the short term. Watching guys all season fly F just might inspire "P" guys to trying it next season, or maybe for a throw away round... but I just don't see a reason to change everything, or diminish the results by mixing and matching sequences at a contest.
But I could be wrong, and I often am.
Respectfully,
Tom Messer
