Strat2003

My Feedback: (1)

I'm having trouble with my two half rolls in opposite directions, and I'm looking for some online coaching.

I keep losing my line....for example, going left to right I'll roll left, pause, roll back upright and I'm angled away from the flightline about 10 or 15 degrees. What am I doing wrong? Has anyone else had this problem, and did you find a practice trick or key to help you through it? Besides "burn lots more fuel"...I know I need to do that.
Thanks,
Scott

OhD

Sounds like too much and or too long down elevator between rolls. Practice doing them one at a time using a little rudder and no elevator.

Jim

woodie

It is typically elev that causes the most problem with heading changes. Rudder can do it, but elevator seems to be the more common problem. It is usually a timing problem. Try doing the first half roll and stop. Check you heading. If you lost heading in that half roll think about what control input could cause that heading change. Then add the second half roll and check your heading. You should be able to figure out which control is causing your issue.

Woodie

Jeff Boyd 2

What airplane are you using? Is it in a 45deg upline or downline? or horizontal?

If it's a good (and gotta be well trimmed) 2M airplane and it's in the 45's it should just about be fine with aileron only (maybe just a slight adjustment 'squeeze' here and there ). If you are adding rudder/elevator out of habit, it could be throwing you off? If it's in the horizontal, yeah could be a "feel"/timing issue .. or maybe badly trimmed? (just thinking).

Otherwise, practice and get a pattern friend to note when it's happening and reference what you might be doing at that point ?? . . and then practice some more

JB

Strat2003

My Feedback: (1)

Thanks for the suggestions. I think it will help paying attention to each element of the maneuver rather than looking at the whole thing as I am now.
Jeff, the airplane is a Focus II, bought used and trimmed. The maneuver in question is the horizontal one, two half rolls in oposite directions, with a pause in the middle. It's part of the Intermediate pattern here.

Yes, practice, practice, practice!

flyintexan

My Feedback: (1)

If you are using rudder, sometimes it is easy to hold on to the rudder input a bit too long or simply add it too early....I used to sometimes add it too early when starting the second half roll.... The slower you perform each half roll, the more critical your timing (starting and stopping) on elevator and or rudder become.

Good luck.

-mark

mjfrederick

What Mark said sounds like the likely culprit. I was having the same problem with my slow rolls when I came back from the season break and it took me a while to pinpoint what was happening. For me it was a combination of getting off the down elevator too early with getting on the rudder too early. For the longest time I had issues with rolling from inverted to upright, it was like a mental block for me, and whenever I lay off the practice for a little while it rears it's ugly head again. I started to fix the issue by flying inverted and then just rolling upright. Once I had worked out all the kinks and felt more comfortable with my timing on it, I incorporated it into the maneuver. I had the toughest time with this on the double immelman in intermediate, and then the bunt w/ 1/2 roll out in Advanced. Keep working at it, at least you know there is a problem, a lot of people have trouble even recognizing that. If you can get your hands on a stick plane (or just carve one yourself), it can make it easier to visualize what might be happening to get you so far off your line.

Strat2003

My Feedback: (1)

Thanks flyintexan and mj....I think you've nailed it. I got out my stick plane and played a while and I think I'm throwing rudder too soon.
I'll start just practicing rolling from inverted to upright for a while without worrying about the first part of the maneuver.

Scott

MTK

Left to right flight....roll left to inverted....apply a touch of right rudder early (at around 45 degrees) and a touch of down elev as you reach inverted.

The half roll back to upright requires the steps in reverse....start the roll to the right and apply a touch right rudder to return to upright. Ease the rudder out to get your heading back.

If the nose is too far left, pointing away from the flight line, chances are you held right rudder in too long after the first half roll and/or entered right rudder too early on your return to upright.

Applying too much down elev, if anything, would point the nose in, towards the flight line

Practice indeed...no substitute for that

nonstoprc

My Feedback: (90)

You may also need to check the CG to see if it is nose heavy. My experience has been that if CG is right, there is almost no need to apply elevator inverted.