My Synergy 90 3D exploded in aerobatic flight
07-26-2003, 06:25 AM
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My Synergy 90 3D exploded in aerobatic flight
I lost my beautiful Synergy today on it's 7th flight.
It's a wonderful flying machine and I was just starting to feel comfortable with it. On low rates for the P-03 schedule, the it is smooth, powerful, and tremendous in rudder.
On the last two flights, I began to experiment with the high rates for 3D flying. Spins (both knife edge spin and flat spin) were spetacular to see, very tight and unbelievably slow - beautiful. Full power snaps were phenominal - extremely violent yet controllable. It is breathtaking to see a plane lose so much energy in a snap. By the end of the last flight, I could do combinations of vertical snaps followed by knife edge spins.
Then I decided to do "the wall" into torque roll - I came in on 1/3 throttle, low in front, chopped throttle followed by full elevator (high rate). To my surprise, the wings folded in front of me in a very loud "thump".
The right wing seperated cleanly from the airplane and was "up there", as I watched the fuselage remains helplessly lose control and spiraled down. As our flying field is by the riverbank, the whole wreck dropped in edge of the water and I watched it as it slowly drifted away 
. I lost everything... it aweful to experience so much happiness and sadness on the same day...
My Synergy is professionally built (assembled) and has been well taken care of. YS-110FZ, Asano carbon pipe, Bolly carbon fiber gear, Futaba digitals - 9252 on everything except rudder (which is a 9151). All carbon fiber linkages and MK/Yoshioka/Dubro hardware. Vertical stab braced with aluminum tube. APC 16x8 on CoolPower 30% with 2 oz. Klotz synthetic.
It's a wonderful flying machine up to the moment of disaster (which was spetacular too, but sad). Here's a pic while it's still in-tact...
Matt
It's a wonderful flying machine and I was just starting to feel comfortable with it. On low rates for the P-03 schedule, the it is smooth, powerful, and tremendous in rudder.
On the last two flights, I began to experiment with the high rates for 3D flying. Spins (both knife edge spin and flat spin) were spetacular to see, very tight and unbelievably slow - beautiful. Full power snaps were phenominal - extremely violent yet controllable. It is breathtaking to see a plane lose so much energy in a snap. By the end of the last flight, I could do combinations of vertical snaps followed by knife edge spins.
Then I decided to do "the wall" into torque roll - I came in on 1/3 throttle, low in front, chopped throttle followed by full elevator (high rate). To my surprise, the wings folded in front of me in a very loud "thump".
The right wing seperated cleanly from the airplane and was "up there", as I watched the fuselage remains helplessly lose control and spiraled down. As our flying field is by the riverbank, the whole wreck dropped in edge of the water and I watched it as it slowly drifted away . I lost everything... it aweful to experience so much happiness and sadness on the same day...My Synergy is professionally built (assembled) and has been well taken care of. YS-110FZ, Asano carbon pipe, Bolly carbon fiber gear, Futaba digitals - 9252 on everything except rudder (which is a 9151). All carbon fiber linkages and MK/Yoshioka/Dubro hardware. Vertical stab braced with aluminum tube. APC 16x8 on CoolPower 30% with 2 oz. Klotz synthetic.
It's a wonderful flying machine up to the moment of disaster (which was spetacular too, but sad). Here's a pic while it's still in-tact...
Matt
07-26-2003, 06:39 AM
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Tail group setup
Futaba 9252 digital, carbon fiber pushrod, aluminum tail brace.
Yoshiyoka tailwheel assembly (the best for F3A type application IMO but a little heavy).
You can see I have lead pieces in the tail. 60 grams total to bring the CG to 265mm. I wanted to work out the final point before moving the battery aft.
Yoshiyoka tailwheel assembly (the best for F3A type application IMO but a little heavy).
You can see I have lead pieces in the tail. 60 grams total to bring the CG to 265mm. I wanted to work out the final point before moving the battery aft.
07-26-2003, 06:54 AM
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And the wreck...
One wing half got caught in the small island in the river. The remaining plane floated away.
At low tide, I may be able to walk to the swampy island retrive the wing-half.
At low tide, I may be able to walk to the swampy island retrive the wing-half.
07-26-2003, 06:58 AM
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Close-up
Bad picture - the wing is so far away and digital zooms does not have the resolution.
You can still see that the wing did not break at the aileron cutout, or where the wing meets the fuselage. It broke cleanly at the wing center.
With high power binoculars we can see that the wing broke in the center with two short spars sticking out (you cannot see on picture). I thought it was a hollow molded wing but it does have two short wooden (?) spars near the center of the wing.
Maybe you can see the white blur at the center are the spars.
You can still see that the wing did not break at the aileron cutout, or where the wing meets the fuselage. It broke cleanly at the wing center.
With high power binoculars we can see that the wing broke in the center with two short spars sticking out (you cannot see on picture). I thought it was a hollow molded wing but it does have two short wooden (?) spars near the center of the wing.
Maybe you can see the white blur at the center are the spars.
07-26-2003, 07:28 AM
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Thoughts...
I am very surprised at how the wing broke in half for the wall 
. It is a very common manuver to do for 3D. I was not fast entering the manuver (about 1/3 throttle) and went to idle right before doing the wall. I have done this manuver countless times on funfly and up to 40cc Caps and was very surprised to see that the Synergy "3D" could not take it.
If you look at Synergy's wing, it is very nicely built. The semi-hollow molded herex sandwhich design is similar to that used on my FVK/Samba competition slope gliders. It is one-peice factory joined so there's little the customer can do. But it is still not strong enough. Maybe Mark or JP can give better feedbacks.
I am frustrated because for a high performance 3D plane at this level, the extreme it can take is not very high. I feel worse because the amount of investment and time to aquire it is high. So, I would like to caution the Synergy 90 flyers this incident when you fly full 3D style. I can only think that given the large control surfaces, the high rates (per the CPLR setup file on ZN website) is very extreme and those rates can only be used at below stall speed.
Your thoughts?
Matt
. It is a very common manuver to do for 3D. I was not fast entering the manuver (about 1/3 throttle) and went to idle right before doing the wall. I have done this manuver countless times on funfly and up to 40cc Caps and was very surprised to see that the Synergy "3D" could not take it. If you look at Synergy's wing, it is very nicely built. The semi-hollow molded herex sandwhich design is similar to that used on my FVK/Samba competition slope gliders. It is one-peice factory joined so there's little the customer can do. But it is still not strong enough. Maybe Mark or JP can give better feedbacks.
I am frustrated because for a high performance 3D plane at this level, the extreme it can take is not very high. I feel worse because the amount of investment and time to aquire it is high. So, I would like to caution the Synergy 90 flyers this incident when you fly full 3D style. I can only think that given the large control surfaces, the high rates (per the CPLR setup file on ZN website) is very extreme and those rates can only be used at below stall speed.
Your thoughts?
Matt
07-26-2003, 11:51 AM
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My Synergy 90 3D exploded in aerobatic flight
I'm sorry to hear about your loss. This was obviously a problem with the manufactured wing and nothing that you did wrong. Your set-up looked great.
All I can say is that maybe this was an isolated manufacturing defect. I know I have put my Synergy 90 3D through some wild 3D flying on high rates, and it is holding up well. I have done the violent snaps, wild blenders, and even the wall as you've described, and my plane is still intact.
I would contact your dealer about a replacement. ZN should stand behind their product and it looks like this was obviously a manufacturing defect.
Was there a reason that you didn't go swimming for it, or get a boat to retrieve it? I think I would have gone swimming to retrieve my radio gear and engine.
Jim
All I can say is that maybe this was an isolated manufacturing defect. I know I have put my Synergy 90 3D through some wild 3D flying on high rates, and it is holding up well. I have done the violent snaps, wild blenders, and even the wall as you've described, and my plane is still intact.
I would contact your dealer about a replacement. ZN should stand behind their product and it looks like this was obviously a manufacturing defect.
Was there a reason that you didn't go swimming for it, or get a boat to retrieve it? I think I would have gone swimming to retrieve my radio gear and engine.
Jim
07-26-2003, 11:59 AM
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My Synergy 90 3D exploded in aerobatic flight
Ouch, That is some real tough luck.
Sorry to hear of your misfortune Matt.
Sounds to be a very strange failure?
I would have thought a blender or similar manuevere would have placed much more strain on a wing than the manuevere you describe.
You were not tempted to go for a swim?, I know I would have been!!!!!!!
Put down the transmitter, strip off and jump,
Unless there is some dodgy chemicals or waste in that river?
Once again, sorry for your loss,
Lets hope Mark or someone can provide an answer or resolution to the problem.
Cameron McDonald
Sorry to hear of your misfortune Matt.
Sounds to be a very strange failure?
I would have thought a blender or similar manuevere would have placed much more strain on a wing than the manuevere you describe.
You were not tempted to go for a swim?, I know I would have been!!!!!!!
Put down the transmitter, strip off and jump,
Unless there is some dodgy chemicals or waste in that river?
Once again, sorry for your loss,
Lets hope Mark or someone can provide an answer or resolution to the problem.
Cameron McDonald
07-26-2003, 12:04 PM
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My Synergy 90 3D exploded in aerobatic flight
Matt,
Very sorry to hear of your loss - I agree with Jim, sounds like a manufacturing defect. I've seen Jim's go thru some wild 3D flight and the wing has held. Hate to see all that beautiful equipment go down with it - were you able to recover any of it?
I have one about to go back in the air (bought a slighlty smashed up one pretty cheaply... fixed it and now it's better than new)... I'll definately be checking the wing a lot as I had to replace the dowels.
Sounds like it was a lot more fun than your G-Trick while it lasted...
Again, sorry to hear of your loss.
- Scott
Very sorry to hear of your loss - I agree with Jim, sounds like a manufacturing defect. I've seen Jim's go thru some wild 3D flight and the wing has held. Hate to see all that beautiful equipment go down with it - were you able to recover any of it?
I have one about to go back in the air (bought a slighlty smashed up one pretty cheaply... fixed it and now it's better than new)... I'll definately be checking the wing a lot as I had to replace the dowels.
Sounds like it was a lot more fun than your G-Trick while it lasted...
Again, sorry to hear of your loss.
- Scott
07-26-2003, 01:01 PM
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Ok guys
I have my flame suit on and intact.....this is not...let me repeat not a indictment on anyone's flying abilty or skills.....rather its a logical look at some of the choices made by a pilot.
This in no way makes him less of a pilot than any other...nor does it mean he is a bad guy. So please remember I'm not picking on anyone here....
"Full power snaps were phenominal - extremely violent yet controllable. It is breathtaking to see a plane lose so much energy in a snap."
These are model airplanes.....They are not cars that you can call Ford up and get a replacement because of factory defects. Yes some models can have factory defects....but lets be realistic....
Everybody talks about this full 3D style.....Well when the model looses this much energy as the poster notes above where does that energy go?
Just a little hint.....the airframe takes it.....yes it might not break the first time and it might not break the 100th time.....But we are talking about wood here and wood will give a fail a little over time...Continued abuse like this will result in a failure...you have to expect it.....maybe not day 1 or even day 50 but it will give up!
Ok now lets take a look at the "true 3D style" everybody seems to to think they are experts.......Look at the guys that have perfected this WOW gee wiz flying.....They are not using as much energy when they unload the controls....they are doing some of these things....yes the rates are high but the model is essentially stalled the whole time...and only the prop blast is flowing over the surfaces.....The key is energy to the airframe is smaller
Model airplanes are not built as tanks...If they were they would not fly well....These 3D aerobatic models rely on their light construction....This light construction comes at a cost...structural integrity....I'm not saying that a better built wing will not fail....I'm saying that they will all fail under the right circumstances.....a wing built like a brick house...might not fail...but then again it won't fly like you want it too either.
I'm sorry for your loss...the Synergy 3D is a fun plane to play with....but all these models should come with a user warning that states " Pilot beware-- Extreme flying is risky to the airframe and should only be attempted only by experienced pilots. The risk of component failure is high do to the extreme energy capabilities of this model."
I'm not saying that you are inexperienced...because I have no idea.....I have done things to my models with very high energy release...In some cases failures have occurred and in others it worked out.....It is all a case of testing the boundaries...Obviously the boundary was busted just like the wing.....You can't hold a manufacture resposible for the boundary.....Its like the Hot coffee label at McDonald's....."This coffee is Hot it might burn you".....come on guys use some common sense.
Obviously there should be some reasonable accountability by manufacturers....but come on..... none of these models are designed for full throttle snaps...especially a super light model like the Synergy 3D with a YS 110 in it.....
This is TOC 40% sized power...and there is not one TOC pilot that will enter such violent stuff with full power with their TOC models. And I bet there are only a few that would enter a wall type maneuver with big energy either....yes 1/3 throttle sounds good...But who knows how much energy was there......now a cheaper more easily replaced model like a 90 sized ARF...yea Buddy...I've done it...Chip, Jason, Quique, and the boys have done it.....sometimes it works and sometimes it don't.......wings can fail....I know there have been a few I have broken! not the builders fault...not the designs fault but me on the sticks....
This form of 3D style flying is new and everybody can just move the stick to the corners to make it flip and flop about.....The real art and talent is to know the limits of the model and to live within those limits.....I bet there are lots of guys that have crashed models experimenting with how much energy is too much energy.......
Sorry for the soap box....but to say a kit is flawed because the wing broke...after the owner admits "Full power snaps were phenominal - extremely violent yet controllable. It is breathtaking to see a plane lose so much energy in a snap."
Come on guys get real.....If you continue to badger these companies about these obvious pilot induced type of failures they will cease to produce these kind of products...or what they produce will be so heavy and over constructed that it won't do what you want it too in the first place......
We need to be realistic......and know that model airplanes are risky...When you test the limits the risk goes up.
Ok enough Soap Box stuff......just being honest and logical ....
Sorry to hear about the loss...especially the river deal. That really sucks. I would be frustrated and upset at the loss. The manufacturer is not really at fault....Its too bad...nobody likes to see a model failure.
I wish you the best in recovering the model.
again....this is not...let me repeat not a indictment on anyone's flying abilty or skills.....rather its a logical look at some of the choices made by a pilot.
This in no way makes him less of a pilot than any other...nor does it mean he is a bad guy. So please remember I'm not picking on anyone here....
OK Guys Flame away and tell me how much of a jerk I am!
Troy Newman
This in no way makes him less of a pilot than any other...nor does it mean he is a bad guy. So please remember I'm not picking on anyone here....
"Full power snaps were phenominal - extremely violent yet controllable. It is breathtaking to see a plane lose so much energy in a snap."
These are model airplanes.....They are not cars that you can call Ford up and get a replacement because of factory defects. Yes some models can have factory defects....but lets be realistic....
Everybody talks about this full 3D style.....Well when the model looses this much energy as the poster notes above where does that energy go?
Just a little hint.....the airframe takes it.....yes it might not break the first time and it might not break the 100th time.....But we are talking about wood here and wood will give a fail a little over time...Continued abuse like this will result in a failure...you have to expect it.....maybe not day 1 or even day 50 but it will give up!
Ok now lets take a look at the "true 3D style" everybody seems to to think they are experts.......Look at the guys that have perfected this WOW gee wiz flying.....They are not using as much energy when they unload the controls....they are doing some of these things....yes the rates are high but the model is essentially stalled the whole time...and only the prop blast is flowing over the surfaces.....The key is energy to the airframe is smaller
Model airplanes are not built as tanks...If they were they would not fly well....These 3D aerobatic models rely on their light construction....This light construction comes at a cost...structural integrity....I'm not saying that a better built wing will not fail....I'm saying that they will all fail under the right circumstances.....a wing built like a brick house...might not fail...but then again it won't fly like you want it too either.
I'm sorry for your loss...the Synergy 3D is a fun plane to play with....but all these models should come with a user warning that states " Pilot beware-- Extreme flying is risky to the airframe and should only be attempted only by experienced pilots. The risk of component failure is high do to the extreme energy capabilities of this model."
I'm not saying that you are inexperienced...because I have no idea.....I have done things to my models with very high energy release...In some cases failures have occurred and in others it worked out.....It is all a case of testing the boundaries...Obviously the boundary was busted just like the wing.....You can't hold a manufacture resposible for the boundary.....Its like the Hot coffee label at McDonald's....."This coffee is Hot it might burn you".....come on guys use some common sense.
Obviously there should be some reasonable accountability by manufacturers....but come on..... none of these models are designed for full throttle snaps...especially a super light model like the Synergy 3D with a YS 110 in it.....
This is TOC 40% sized power...and there is not one TOC pilot that will enter such violent stuff with full power with their TOC models. And I bet there are only a few that would enter a wall type maneuver with big energy either....yes 1/3 throttle sounds good...But who knows how much energy was there......now a cheaper more easily replaced model like a 90 sized ARF...yea Buddy...I've done it...Chip, Jason, Quique, and the boys have done it.....sometimes it works and sometimes it don't.......wings can fail....I know there have been a few I have broken! not the builders fault...not the designs fault but me on the sticks....
This form of 3D style flying is new and everybody can just move the stick to the corners to make it flip and flop about.....The real art and talent is to know the limits of the model and to live within those limits.....I bet there are lots of guys that have crashed models experimenting with how much energy is too much energy.......
Sorry for the soap box....but to say a kit is flawed because the wing broke...after the owner admits "Full power snaps were phenominal - extremely violent yet controllable. It is breathtaking to see a plane lose so much energy in a snap."
Come on guys get real.....If you continue to badger these companies about these obvious pilot induced type of failures they will cease to produce these kind of products...or what they produce will be so heavy and over constructed that it won't do what you want it too in the first place......
We need to be realistic......and know that model airplanes are risky...When you test the limits the risk goes up.
Ok enough Soap Box stuff......just being honest and logical ....
Sorry to hear about the loss...especially the river deal. That really sucks. I would be frustrated and upset at the loss. The manufacturer is not really at fault....Its too bad...nobody likes to see a model failure.
I wish you the best in recovering the model.
again....this is not...let me repeat not a indictment on anyone's flying abilty or skills.....rather its a logical look at some of the choices made by a pilot.
This in no way makes him less of a pilot than any other...nor does it mean he is a bad guy. So please remember I'm not picking on anyone here....
OK Guys Flame away and tell me how much of a jerk I am!
Troy Newman
07-26-2003, 02:03 PM
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My Synergy 90 3D exploded in aerobatic flight
Hi guys ~
Thanks for the kind words...
Believe me I wanted to dive for it too!!! But the river is the muddy swampy kind and you will get tangled/stuck and swept under by the current. We usually have a inflatable boat at our club - it was not there today somehow... I watched helplessly as friends tried to find the boat gear. Anyhow, it will land somewhere eventually, very downstream. I just did not have the energy to recover it. Maybe tomorrow at low-tide, I can take the inflatable boat to get the wing half to observe it.
Again, thanks for your kind words and encouragement...
Swill, good luck with rebuilding the Synergy! I hope I can build another Synergy or similar crossover-type airplane someday...
Matt
Thanks for the kind words...
Believe me I wanted to dive for it too!!! But the river is the muddy swampy kind and you will get tangled/stuck and swept under by the current. We usually have a inflatable boat at our club - it was not there today somehow... I watched helplessly as friends tried to find the boat gear. Anyhow, it will land somewhere eventually, very downstream. I just did not have the energy to recover it. Maybe tomorrow at low-tide, I can take the inflatable boat to get the wing half to observe it.
Again, thanks for your kind words and encouragement...
Swill, good luck with rebuilding the Synergy! I hope I can build another Synergy or similar crossover-type airplane someday...
Matt
07-26-2003, 02:16 PM
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My Synergy 90 3D exploded in aerobatic flight
Well since I am the one that suggested contacting ZN Line for a replacement, I'll make a reply to Troy.
Troy, you Jerk......... Just kidding, actually I agree with what you are saying.
I guess I glossed over the part about Matt doing snaps at full throttle. I wouldn't expect the plane to hold up to that either. I guess when I originally read the post I was feeling bad for Matt and I was just placing myself in his shoes. I assumed he was flying his Synergy 90 3D like I have been flying mine. I do not do snaps at full throttle though, I've probably done them at 1/2 throttle or a little less. I do expect a manufacturer to stand behind their product and if it is advertised as a 3D plane, it needs to stand up to resonable 3D flight. I consider what I do to be resonable and I assumed Matt was flying similar to me without giving it much thought.
Now that I've thought about it more and reread the post, maybe what happened was the wing was stressed in one of those full throttle snaps and developed a crack or weak spot that later failed in the 1/3 throttle wall. This would make sense, because I was wondering why the wing would fail in a lower stress manuever like the 1/3 throttle wall. If it was damaged earlier though by something else, then it makes sense.
Of course I'm just guessing here and we don't really know what happened and we don't really know how Matt was flying. Was he was going straight up while doing full throttle snaps? or straight and level doing full throttle snaps?
I agree that we can't expect the plane to do just anything and that there is a resonable amount to expect out of a plane. I will say though, that if mine failed from the way I've been flying mine, I would expect it to be replaced.
I will also say that this wing on the Synergy 90 3D is one of the strongest feeling wings that I have ever seen. I was very surprised to hear of one failing.
Jim
Troy, you Jerk......... Just kidding, actually I agree with what you are saying.
I guess I glossed over the part about Matt doing snaps at full throttle. I wouldn't expect the plane to hold up to that either. I guess when I originally read the post I was feeling bad for Matt and I was just placing myself in his shoes. I assumed he was flying his Synergy 90 3D like I have been flying mine. I do not do snaps at full throttle though, I've probably done them at 1/2 throttle or a little less. I do expect a manufacturer to stand behind their product and if it is advertised as a 3D plane, it needs to stand up to resonable 3D flight. I consider what I do to be resonable and I assumed Matt was flying similar to me without giving it much thought.
Now that I've thought about it more and reread the post, maybe what happened was the wing was stressed in one of those full throttle snaps and developed a crack or weak spot that later failed in the 1/3 throttle wall. This would make sense, because I was wondering why the wing would fail in a lower stress manuever like the 1/3 throttle wall. If it was damaged earlier though by something else, then it makes sense.
Of course I'm just guessing here and we don't really know what happened and we don't really know how Matt was flying. Was he was going straight up while doing full throttle snaps? or straight and level doing full throttle snaps?
I agree that we can't expect the plane to do just anything and that there is a resonable amount to expect out of a plane. I will say though, that if mine failed from the way I've been flying mine, I would expect it to be replaced.
I will also say that this wing on the Synergy 90 3D is one of the strongest feeling wings that I have ever seen. I was very surprised to hear of one failing.
Jim
07-26-2003, 02:16 PM
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My Synergy 90 3D exploded in aerobatic flight
I've flown competition for quite a few years. Was around when this 3D type flying first started and have been around it since then. One thing all the pilots that choose to fly this type of maneuvers have in common is that they all go through a lot of planes and repairs from damage resulting from the ground or the large forces exerted on the airframe from certain maneuvers.
Sorry to hear of your loss. I know it can be frustrating.
Sorry to hear of your loss. I know it can be frustrating.
07-26-2003, 02:28 PM
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My Synergy 90 3D exploded in aerobatic flight
Again I'm not picking on anyone...Just I've been there and done that...I've folded models and its tough to take....but...then again this is model airplanes....
Hammbone where are you in GA....I'm living in Atlanta for about 3-4 months.....Have not been flying too much down here...Met some really nice people...Earl Williams, Jim Ivey, Bryan Kennedy...I have only been out to ATL-RC and also the BCMA field...I have flown at both briefly....
Have not made it out to GMA yet or the Friendly flyers with Earl....I hope to but its been busy these past few weeks....Team Trials, NATS and all...Plus we moved to Atlanta in between the 2 events...so its been busy.
If you're close maybe we can go fly together.....I currently live in the Sandy Springs area of Atlanta
Troy Newman
Hammbone where are you in GA....I'm living in Atlanta for about 3-4 months.....Have not been flying too much down here...Met some really nice people...Earl Williams, Jim Ivey, Bryan Kennedy...I have only been out to ATL-RC and also the BCMA field...I have flown at both briefly....
Have not made it out to GMA yet or the Friendly flyers with Earl....I hope to but its been busy these past few weeks....Team Trials, NATS and all...Plus we moved to Atlanta in between the 2 events...so its been busy.
If you're close maybe we can go fly together.....I currently live in the Sandy Springs area of Atlanta
Troy Newman
07-26-2003, 02:57 PM
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Troy...
Troy thanks for your comments. I hope you see that I am in no way faulting the manufacturer. I actually commented on how well the wing is made. I write this post to share my experience with many Synergy flyers on this forum, many which I have made friends with, so that they can benefit from this incident. I also hope to give some feedbacks to ZN - Mark & JP.
Yes, you are right that I may have damaged the airframe during snaps, and yes, you are right that I may have damaged the wing during the wall. But, these are very common 3D manuvers that we do. The Synergy on hight rates, with it's large control surfaces, discharge energy instantly. I know this and have taken more caution on energy management at high-rates, I can only say that the airspeeds were slow. I was quite surprised it did not hold up to this kind of manuvering. I have done similar manuvers many times on other planes, none of which ripped the wings off - yet .
The Synergy is a new design capable of 3D. I believed that, bought it, built it and flew it in 3D. I do not wish to argue with you on my experience level nor my "choices" We can type all we want on internet . I can only assure you that I was flying in reasonable limits.
Thanks,
Matt
Yes, you are right that I may have damaged the airframe during snaps, and yes, you are right that I may have damaged the wing during the wall. But, these are very common 3D manuvers that we do. The Synergy on hight rates, with it's large control surfaces, discharge energy instantly. I know this and have taken more caution on energy management at high-rates, I can only say that the airspeeds were slow. I was quite surprised it did not hold up to this kind of manuvering. I have done similar manuvers many times on other planes, none of which ripped the wings off - yet
.The Synergy is a new design capable of 3D. I believed that, bought it, built it and flew it in 3D. I do not wish to argue with you on my experience level nor my "choices"
We can type all we want on internet . I can only assure you that I was flying in reasonable limits. Thanks,
Matt
07-26-2003, 03:01 PM
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My Synergy 90 3D exploded in aerobatic flight
Troy,
Last I heard, I thought you had moved from CO to CA several months ago. You're here in Atlanta now? I'd love to fly with you sometime.
I'm currently flying at the Stone Mountain R/C Flyers Club. We are a new club. We got permission to fly at the old full scale Stone Mountain Airpoort which was closed down a few years ago. Scott (SWILL in above post) and I are both flying there now.
The Club's website is SMRCF.com, you can see a map that shows our location. We are just to the east of Stone Mountain Park. I live about 10 minutes away from the field.
I'll be out there tomorrow after lunch if you want to come out tomorrow. I'd love to meet you.
Jim
Last I heard, I thought you had moved from CO to CA several months ago. You're here in Atlanta now? I'd love to fly with you sometime.
I'm currently flying at the Stone Mountain R/C Flyers Club. We are a new club. We got permission to fly at the old full scale Stone Mountain Airpoort which was closed down a few years ago. Scott (SWILL in above post) and I are both flying there now.
The Club's website is SMRCF.com, you can see a map that shows our location. We are just to the east of Stone Mountain Park. I live about 10 minutes away from the field.
I'll be out there tomorrow after lunch if you want to come out tomorrow. I'd love to meet you.
Jim
07-26-2003, 03:15 PM
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My Synergy 90 3D exploded in aerobatic flight
Alvin,
I will try to get the half tomorrow. I am very interested as well. I really like the way you manufactured the wing, hollow-molded and sandwiched just like our competitive F3F gliders. I have been thinking why hasn't the F3A guys do this!
I took a good look at the wing with binoculars. It split evenly in the center, with short spars protruding out. How did you join the wing? Maybe a reinforcement in the center in the future.
I will see if I can retrieve it tomorrow and take pictures for you.
Matt
I will try to get the half tomorrow. I am very interested as well. I really like the way you manufactured the wing, hollow-molded and sandwiched just like our competitive F3F gliders. I have been thinking why hasn't the F3A guys do this!
I took a good look at the wing with binoculars. It split evenly in the center, with short spars protruding out. How did you join the wing? Maybe a reinforcement in the center in the future.
I will see if I can retrieve it tomorrow and take pictures for you.
Matt
07-27-2003, 06:57 AM
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My Synergy 90 3D exploded in aerobatic flight
Huang
first of all please try to recuperate the wing - it is of most importance to us.
re: your question "Why F3A etc...)
this way of construction took more than a year of research and tests and we wonder if there is any manufacturer in position to use the same technique (much better for the profil that ribs with balsa covering) - we perhaps will try to use the technique on the next F3a ship (could be an ARF biplane.......)
Best regards
Alvin
first of all please try to recuperate the wing - it is of most importance to us.
re: your question "Why F3A etc...)
this way of construction took more than a year of research and tests and we wonder if there is any manufacturer in position to use the same technique (much better for the profil that ribs with balsa covering) - we perhaps will try to use the technique on the next F3a ship (could be an ARF biplane.......)
Best regards
Alvin
07-27-2003, 01:19 PM
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My Synergy 90 3D exploded in aerobatic flight
Alvin,
I am very very sorry to say that I was not able to recover the wing for examination. It is no longer on the small island when I got there this morning. The water level must have gone up during high tide and swept the wing further downstream.
So, with the wing gone, I can no longer give any more feedbacks to what happned. I hope you continue your manufacturing and research on composite hollow-molded wings for F3A. Hopefully we will see more of them soon, and even stronger design.
Matt
I am very very sorry to say that I was not able to recover the wing for examination. It is no longer on the small island when I got there this morning. The water level must have gone up during high tide and swept the wing further downstream.
So, with the wing gone, I can no longer give any more feedbacks to what happned. I hope you continue your manufacturing and research on composite hollow-molded wings for F3A. Hopefully we will see more of them soon, and even stronger design.
Matt
07-27-2003, 03:27 PM
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My Synergy 90 3D exploded in aerobatic flight
Huang
I am very very sorry that you could not recuperate the wing as this would have been of great help to see what happened. The construction of the wing should normaly accept great abuses, even more than one expects it would (there is a long, strong spar runing from one side of the wing to the other) - the only possibility we can think of, it that this spar has been damaged during the introduction of the two dowels (I have seen a few Synergys in Germany which had the dowels introduced by force - the wood of the spar did split) - therefor the german buidling instructions insist on a very carefull introduction of these spars (and naturally insist on a carefull use of the large throws).
Best regards
Alvin
I am very very sorry that you could not recuperate the wing as this would have been of great help to see what happened. The construction of the wing should normaly accept great abuses, even more than one expects it would (there is a long, strong spar runing from one side of the wing to the other) - the only possibility we can think of, it that this spar has been damaged during the introduction of the two dowels (I have seen a few Synergys in Germany which had the dowels introduced by force - the wood of the spar did split) - therefor the german buidling instructions insist on a very carefull introduction of these spars (and naturally insist on a carefull use of the large throws).
Best regards
Alvin
07-28-2003, 12:56 AM
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My Synergy 90 3D exploded in aerobatic flight
Alvin,
Thanks for your kind support. I think that may have been what happened indeed. From what I saw yesterday, the spar broke at where the right dowel was inserted, even though the wing split in center.
It may very well be that the spar was damage from insertion of the dowel, and later failed in high-G manuvers in flight. I did not build so I do not know - but that may very much be the cause.
I am quite confident in your product design. The wing seems very strong when I received it, and I the forces I flew the plane to were not extreme (vs Troy's comments). The improper insertion of the dowel may have been the cause.
It may be good idea to advise your customers with instructions in the future, particularly for critical areas. With the new ARF products, many customers who are otherwise non-ZN customers are moving to ZN products, and may not have the experience to build your designs.
I am very much looking forward to the ARF bipe. Again, thanks for your kind support. You and Mark's contribution the the forum are certainly tremendous and wonderful support to your company.
Matt
Thanks for your kind support. I think that may have been what happened indeed. From what I saw yesterday, the spar broke at where the right dowel was inserted, even though the wing split in center.
It may very well be that the spar was damage from insertion of the dowel, and later failed in high-G manuvers in flight. I did not build so I do not know - but that may very much be the cause.
I am quite confident in your product design. The wing seems very strong when I received it, and I the forces I flew the plane to were not extreme (vs Troy's comments). The improper insertion of the dowel may have been the cause.
It may be good idea to advise your customers with instructions in the future, particularly for critical areas. With the new ARF products, many customers who are otherwise non-ZN customers are moving to ZN products, and may not have the experience to build your designs.
I am very much looking forward to the ARF bipe. Again, thanks for your kind support. You and Mark's contribution the the forum are certainly tremendous and wonderful support to your company.
Matt
