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mikehannah 03-27-2009 10:43 AM

Japanese F3A planes
 
Hi
There are so many gorgeous Japanese F3A planes I am very curious as to why they are never sold outwith Japan. I know Starcraft do it but why dont any ot the other?

Curiousity question for when I win the Lottery

Mike

tIANci 03-27-2009 11:10 AM

RE: Japanese F3A planes
 
National pride? They keep the best for themselves? :)

woodie 03-27-2009 11:42 AM

RE: Japanese F3A planes
 
A lot of the gorgeous planes you are looking at are either one offs, hand built from kits, or both. Even if they decided to export the kits, there is a rapidly declining base of people that could build them even if they had the kit. The number of hours that goes into a model like those is way up there and most people don't want to take that kind of time to 'make' a pattern plane.

Woodie


Chris Moon 03-27-2009 11:53 AM

RE: Japanese F3A planes
 
1 Attachment(s)
Starcraft Addiction EP. All wood kit and Plettenberg powered. First flight were today!!

The new Delro/ Starcraft Addictions are the same design only composite and foam/balsa construction. Saves lots of building time!

mikehannah 03-27-2009 12:41 PM

RE: Japanese F3A planes
 
Hi
Yes I have seen the Addiction and very much like it. It is one I will consider getting on when I replace my Synergy.
As I said my question was more a curiosity point.

Mike

mikehannah 03-27-2009 01:41 PM

RE: Japanese F3A planes
 
Hi
Out of curiosity do they sell the kits eg A Proline over seas or is all the Japanese planes sold ready buiilt?

Mike

rgreen24 03-27-2009 02:23 PM

RE: Japanese F3A planes
 
Hey Chris how is the weight?

Henning 03-27-2009 02:54 PM

RE: Japanese F3A planes
 

Quote:

ORIGINAL: mikehannah

Hi
Out of curiosity do they sell the kits eg A Proline over seas or is all the Japanese planes sold ready buiilt?

Mike
Hi Mike,

The Proline is only available as an ARF or ARC. The older Good Shot used to be sold as a kit.

http://www.ctt.ne.jp/~wcraft/pro.htm


http://translate.google.no/translate...hl=no&ie=UTF-8



Regards,
Henning

avrod 03-27-2009 04:08 PM

RE: Japanese F3A planes
 
The Japanese wood models are really well thought out but not unusual in aerodynamic design. You can get as good a result from a Black Magic. It would be nice to have an open source design or two for those that like building.

rcpattern 03-27-2009 04:59 PM

RE: Japanese F3A planes
 
The biggest thing on the Japanese planes are the finish. The construction is nothing special, but they do put a great finish on it. I don't know that there is enough difference in the flying capabilities of any of the new F3A designs to say one is better than others. They all do some things great, and all have weaknesses. But they are all certainly competitive. They are all so closely designed though, if they all had identical schemes, most people would have a hard time identifying one from another.

Arch

Silent-AV8R 03-27-2009 05:53 PM

RE: Japanese F3A planes
 

Quote:

ORIGINAL: rcpattern
They are all so closely designed though, if they all had identical schemes, most people would have a hard time identifying one from another.

Arch
Ever noticed how often the name is placed on the plane?? Might it be that they are already nearly indistinguishable from one and another??

But pattern planes, like many other purpose built planes, tend to all look alike because they have converged on a single purpose. Sort of the same reason all hammers look basically alike.

I'm just glad retracts are a thing of the past. I hated those things!!

riot3d 03-27-2009 07:01 PM

RE: Japanese F3A planes
 

Quote:

ORIGINAL: rcpattern

The biggest thing on the Japanese planes are the finish. The construction is nothing special, but they do put a great finish on it. I don't know that there is enough difference in the flying capabilities of any of the new F3A designs to say one is better than others. They all do some things great, and all have weaknesses.

Arch

Well said, Arch.

However, you can learn a few tricks if you let them do the installation, and copy it to your next project.

Adrian

handglider 03-27-2009 08:05 PM

RE: Japanese F3A planes
 
Hey Chris,

Nice job on your Starcraft Addiction EP... is that the one you built?

sure would like to build that kit someday.

dean



rcpattern 03-27-2009 11:36 PM

RE: Japanese F3A planes
 
I totally agree Adrian. Nice installations are always great to copy. I've learned a lot from guys stateside as well. I love to look at different planes and see different techniques to get to the same goal.

Arch

apereira 03-28-2009 01:32 AM

RE: Japanese F3A planes
 
There are more than 350 F3A pilots in Japan, I don't think they can produce that much more to cover Japan and the rest of the world, maybe is just that, they can't make enough airplanes. The 350 I got from the pilots standings from sakura f3a, I can be mistaken anyway.

riot3d 03-28-2009 01:50 AM

RE: Japanese F3A planes
 

Quote:

ORIGINAL: apereira

There are more than 350 F3A pilots in Japan, I don't think they can produce that much more to cover Japan and the rest of the world, maybe is just that, they can't make enough airplanes. The 350 I got from the pilots standings from sakura f3a, I can be mistaken anyway.

For a country that has so few decent flying sites, they sure are enthusiastic & passionate on F3A.

Adrian

Silent-AV8R 03-28-2009 02:14 AM

RE: Japanese F3A planes
 

Quote:

ORIGINAL: apereira

There are more than 350 F3A pilots in Japan, I don't think they can produce that much more to cover Japan and the rest of the world, maybe is just that, they can't make enough airplanes. The 350 I got from the pilots standings from sakura f3a, I can be mistaken anyway.

Think about this. If you use the same technique and add up FAI scores posted in the NSRCA District Championship points race each year you get somewhere around 90 F3A pilots in the USA!!!

The US has nearly 2.5 times the population of Japan and only about 25% of the number of F3A pilots!!

Fun with numbers late at night!!

MHester 03-28-2009 06:35 AM

RE: Japanese F3A planes
 
But plenty of pattern pilots, who will or won't end up in F3A due to skill, time or.....just not wanting to play that game.

A few years back, there were good planes, great planes, and not so good planes. Now, they've all sort of figured out what works for the patterns and flying style we've all sort of adopted, so there are no real stinkers flying-wise. Construction and finish are another story entirely. That's pretty much up to your skills and your wallet, and how closely you pay attention [8D]

As for why the Japanese don't actively sell overseas, well, they build wood planes. I can tell you from first hand experience, it's a chore. Ever notice what Naruke charges for a custom built and finished plane? Guess what....it's worth every penny. I doubt I would do it for less, that's for sure. It's very time consuming and that's why there aren't that many and you have to wait and even then you may not get one. Long ago I wondered if it was snobbish...now, I have NO DOUBT why he does it that way. He knows what he's doing.

As for wood kits, there are a few. Why they don't sell kits of thier current latest and greatest, I don't know, nor would I guess. But do an experiment: take the outlines, block them all white in photoshop, and then tell me which plane is which. Good luck, you will miss a few. And some will suprise you. We're at a point now where unless something drastic changes, design of these things is going to be slow and subtle. When something works you don't throw a monkey wrench at it.

Here's what I get a kick out of: All the time I see and hear people (many who should know better) praising one plane and poo pooing another from rumors and impression. In most cases these people have not actually had any direct experience with the planes in question themselves. One thing I have tried to do is fly everything I can get my hands on, and quiz the pilot about set up and mix etc. I want to learn all I can learn and that's the only way to "know" and not guess. I've learned a lot, and applied it. It's also very eye opening. Many of the planes that are thought of as god-like have some serious shortcomings, and many of the planes that get poo-pooed by "experts" are some of the most amazing planes out there. And a lot of planes that are largely ignored are some of the best planes you can fly. (no I am not referring to my own, it's anything but ignored LOL) But at the end of the day, no plane I know of is unflyable or unfixable. Some require more work than others though....but if we shared what we found with names and such, it would be armageddon in pattern land...

If you have the chance, fly everything you can. Talk to people. Talk to the owners and if you are able, talk to the desingers. No airplane is perfect but some will suprise you. The japanese planes are no different. I just wish they'd paint them different colors once in a while! There is a reason why they still build them out of wood. And if you get it, you get it...and if you don't, you don't...and neither is "wrong". I too wish I could get my hands on some of the drawings for say, the Altair 200 etc. Thanks to a friend overseas I did have a peek at some drawings/measurements of the Starcraft Addiction and the results were a little suprising....needless to say, I think that one should be an awesome plane ;) But since the japanese style has always been far out, fast and smooth, I'm interested to see how the Altair flies for instance.

Ahh well I'm rambling sorry, this is just a subject that I am very interested in....

-Mike

Silent-AV8R 03-28-2009 11:20 AM

RE: Japanese F3A planes
 

Quote:

ORIGINAL: MHester

But plenty of pattern pilots, who will or won't end up in F3A due to skill, time or.....just not wanting to play that game.

Good point, everywhere outside of the US, ALL pilots fly FAI or they do not compete. Here in the US we have all the other classes. So total US participation is higher than it looks at first blush.

mikehannah 03-28-2009 12:01 PM

RE: Japanese F3A planes
 
Hi
My interest in the Japanese designs is purely becuase I like the look of them. I am not a good enought pilot to say if one flies better than the other but I am one of these people who likes his plane to look right and to me they do. I also prefer to fly a dffierent plane than enyone else if possible. I hate opaque canopies ( yes I know it is lighter) I just htink it makes our planes look like toys. As for the colour schemes they are a wee bit Flambyant for my tastes but they are never the less beautiful planes.
The Addiction is definitely on my consider list as is the 2M Wind S Pro whey Sebart finally brings it out ( hey Seb if you are reading this please bring it out with a clear canopy option)

Mike

Elation1 03-28-2009 12:06 PM

RE: Japanese F3A planes
 
Must keepthat in mind for the Zephyr eh Mike?

mikehannah 03-28-2009 01:55 PM

RE: Japanese F3A planes
 
Hi Steven
Yeap you are right and the Zepher is also on the list.

Mike

Tom Miller 03-28-2009 02:21 PM

RE: Japanese F3A planes
 
Chris
Dang! You build 'em quick! Nice job! Looking forward to seeing it (and your little buddie) at WSRC.

Tom

Jeff Boyd 2 03-28-2009 05:41 PM

RE: Japanese F3A planes
 
Some of you may have already seen this . . BUT this build thread is an awesome display of Japanese F3A plane building. Even though it is a kit, the quality of build and the detail in the paint is amazing.

http://translate.google.com/translat...hl=en&ie=UTF-8

Cheers, JB

avrod 03-30-2009 01:34 AM

RE: Japanese F3A planes
 
That is a really good blog. I wish Google could do a better job translating Japanese. I would like to use silk but it is very expensive and hard to get in the weights that they use. I couldn't work out if they use base coat /clearcoat or acrylic polyurethane with clear on top. It did look as if the paint job was done with the surfaces already hinged! Interesting to see the use of a vinyl cutter to make the masks, some detail info is lost in translation. BTW there are some really good designs available on the French F3A site. Anyway I am using the finishing system on Mike Hesters site with some modifications of my own. I dont expect to reach the standard of the Japanese builders but will be happy with a durable fuelproof finish.


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