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  1. #26

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    RE: JR 9503 issues


    ORIGINAL: Hoosier06

    Problem Using Flaperon for Wing Type
    It has been standard practice with JR radios (9305/9503) in the past to set the FLAP Switch to INH. , , ,


    Setting up dual ailerons on the 11X the same way you have been doing it on the 9303 is really a case of an "old dog not learning new tricks" syndrome. The 11X left aileron trim not working when it has been programmed for flaperons but inhibited has been extensively discussed on other forums.



    The 11X has streamlined the initial setup procedure. To do it the "9303" way requires extra steps and it doesn’t work. On the 11X the flaperon wing type means using flaperons. If you don’t want flaperons, use the NORMAL wing type. Once the NORMAL type is selected, the programming will then ask if you want to dual mate another channel with the aileron channel and if so, which one. The DeviceSEL and Wing Type menus are not used for setting up dual ailerons without the flaperons. Nor do you have to set up the FLAP SYS menu as it is greyed-out.



    To me it is illogical that a certain attribute be programmed and then it is inhibited. I never had this problem as I always used flaperons. Although the 9303 will allow you to do this, it shouldn’t have. (Also, the 11X should not have allow the FLAP channel from being INH with the FLAPERON wing type chosen.) The logical way to program the 9303/9503 for dual ailerons without flaperons is to dual mate the ailerons while using the Normal wing type.


  2. #27

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    RE: JR 9503 issues

    This post is about the 9503, not the 11X. There is nothing wrong with using the Flapperon Wing Type, on the 9303/9503 for dual ailerons. I had many Futaba radios before I switch to the JR XP8103/9303. Flapperon was always used for Dual Ailerons and Ailevator was always used for Dual Elevator. They are both Canned Mixes and the unneeded components can be disabbled. There is no negative side effects from doing this for the purposes I described.

    If the 11X has come up with a better way then that is fine.

    If you were going to use the Flap channel for purposes other than Flaps, you would still need to disable Flap System and Flap Trim.

    Using the Mate function works as well, but there are no clear advantages in this case.

    Besides, the statement was made that the Aileron Trim would not work, for the Flap channel, on the 9503, when using Flapperon Wing Type, and that is simply not the case.
    Rich
    byronf16@gmail.com

  3. #28

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    RE: JR 9503 issues



    Rich,



    I think you missed the subtlety of my comment. It is not that you can’t or shouldn’t use the flaperon wing for 9303 dual-ailerons sans flaperon, but that you shouldn’t have been able to. I can’t speak about the Futaba programming as I’ve never owned one. And it has been too long since I had a 8103 to remember how it was done. But that really isn’t pertinent as the 9303 programming broke with previous JR programming in the use of the dual/mate feature.



    For the 9303/9503 and even the 12X, using the flaperon wing type with the flaperon inhibited works. The only real thing wrong with using it is that future high-end JR transmitters will probably be based on the 11X programming and it won’t work then.



    Allan


  4. #29

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    RE: JR 9503 issues

    Allan - I see what you are driving at. You believe that the approach taken by the developers of the 11X, regarding Dual or Quad Ailerons, is much better that what is provided with the 9303/9503/12X. I have not played with an 11X so I am not familiar with it's programming. I have heard that the DX8 is much easier to program than the 9303/9503/12X, and this is coming from users experienced with the 9303/9503, so I would expect the 11X to be more advanced in that regard. We only have 2 club members that have the 11X and neither one has had the DX8, so I have not seen a comparison between the programming in those radios and the 9303/9503.

    For owners of the 9303/9503, I don't see any advantages or disadvantages to using either the Flapperon Wing Type or the Mate function to handle the OP's setup of Dual Ailerons. If and when he moves up to the 11X, he will still have to relearn it's programming intricacies and learn to do things differently, anyway.

    Thanks for the explanation!!
    Rich
    byronf16@gmail.com

  5. #30
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    RE: JR 9503 issues


    ORIGINAL: BuschBarber


    ORIGINAL: Hoosier06

    [size=3]Problem Using Flaperon for Wing Type
    It has been standard practice with JR radios (9305/9503) in the past to set the FLAP Switch to INH. This is the way I have been doing it with the 11X. If you do this, when you use the trim on the Aileron Channel, only the right aileron moves. Since most of the time you only trim using these buttons while flying, you may never notice it. But it will take much more trim to get the plane flying level, and will likely introduce some weird tracking issues.
    Do this right away. In the SYSTEM LIST navigate to the ''DEVICE SELECT'' Function and open it. On the second line is the FLAP Channel scroll over to the far right column [out] and select the INH, change it to say SYS. Next go to the FUNCTION LIST navigate to the''FLAP SYSTEM'' Function and select it. You will be propted to ''ALL SEVOS HOLD'', select NO. You will be shown a screen with lots of values. All values in this screen should be set to 0%. In my radio all of them default to 0% except ''LAND:'' it is at 100%, and is deadly. Make sure you change this value to read ''LAND: 0%''. Everything should work fine on the plane after this is done.
    For this reason I am using Normal as wing type and mating with flaperon.
    I have two JR XP9303 transmitters, one on 72Mhz and one with a Spektrum module. I use Flapperon Wing Type frequently, on my aerobatic planes. I have never heard that the Aileron Trim does not work for the Slave channel (Flap) and I have never noticed that the Aileron Trim only affects the Aileron channel and not the Slave channel.

    I will check it out with one of my aircraft to confirm.
    Read carefully. The problem applies to the 11X ONLY. 9303 and 9503 are OK.

  6. #31

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    RE: JR 9503 issues

    When reading the comment, you just quoted, for the first time, It was not so obvious that you were talking just about the 11x. You mentioned it in the middle of the sentence after referencing the 9303/9503. After Allan's reply, it was more obvious that you were talking just about the 11X. I understand that you feel anyone using the 9303/9503 should be using the Mate function because that is more in line with future programming, like the 11X.

    All i said was either way is just as effective and I see no harm in using either.
    Rich
    byronf16@gmail.com

  7. #32

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    RE: JR 9503 issues

    I know this thread is 6 or 7 months old, but I think you guys could help me since you've touched on one issue that is similar to mine. I got a new JR 9503 in April. I've read the "manual" at least 50,000 times, and I still can't solve this problem: When I adjust the ELEVATOR trim, only one elevator half moves. Thus, as in your example above, an excessive amount of trim is required during flight to get the plane to fly straight. I have one elevator half plugged into the ELEVATOR port on the Rx., and the other half is plugged into the AUX2 port. I have mixed the ELEVATOR with its SLAVE being AUX2; I have inhibited all switches, (except the gear switch which I use for my optical ignition cut-off). I can't get this to work whether I use NORMAL or FLAPERON wing type. For mixing 2 channels for elevator, and also 2 channels for aileron, which ports do you use as the slave, and how do you get it to respond to the associated trim lever???? Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.[][&o]

  8. #33

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    RE: JR 9503 issues


    ORIGINAL: drbyrnes

    I know this thread is 6 or 7 months old, but I think you guys could help me since you've touched on one issue that is similar to mine. I got a new JR 9503 in April. I've read the ''manual'' at least 50,000 times, and I still can't solve this problem: When I adjust the ELEVATOR trim, only one elevator half moves. Thus, as in your example above, an excessive amount of trim is required during flight to get the plane to fly straight. I have one elevator half plugged into the ELEVATOR port on the Rx., and the other half is plugged into the AUX2 port. I have mixed the ELEVATOR with its SLAVE being AUX2; I have inhibited all switches, (except the gear switch which I use for my optical ignition cut-off). I can't get this to work whether I use NORMAL or FLAPERON wing type. For mixing 2 channels for elevator, and also 2 channels for aileron, which ports do you use as the slave, and how do you get it to respond to the associated trim lever???? Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.[][&o]

    I had the same issue. I called the folks at Jr support and they had me fixed up in about 5 mins over the phone.


    BV
    If it ain t leaking oil, then somethings wrong,,, USMC 82-03, RETIRED!

  9. #34

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    RE: JR 9503 issues



    If the 9503 program mix is the same as the 9303, the trim for the master channel is not carried through to the slave channel for anything other than throttle being used as the master. Use the dual/mate portion of the Wing Type menu to couple the elevator channels.



    Allan


  10. #35

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    RE: JR 9503 issues

    Thanks, guys. I'll try both of your suggestions. Using the dual/mate function seems logical, and I thought I had tried it, but maybe I missed something.

  11. #36
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    RE: JR 9503 issues

    Use the mate function, nix the flapperon mixing unless you plan on actually using flapperons.

    JR made it easy. Someone who wrote the manual decided to make it complicated.
    Andy - Helicopter Forum Moderator
    AMA 77227 Leader Member- Contest Director
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  12. #37

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    RE: JR 9503 issues

    Thanks for your help, everyone. Today I caved in, after having the 9503 since April, and called Horizon Support. The tech walked me through a set-up in a bout 10 minutes. The manual says to use FLAPERON wing type, the tech told me to use NORMAL wing type. I MATED the elevator and aileron with their corresponding SLAVE channels, and it worked like a charm! Yes, the manual must have been written by an idiot!! I'm pretty good with computers, but this radio with its manual is very user unfriendly! Good flying.

  13. #38
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    RE: JR 9503 issues

    Not an idiot, just someone that had a specific use in mind I think.

    If you don't like that manual then stay away from the 11x Spectacular radio but the manual is about 1/3 the size of the 9303 which has a pretty good manual and the radio does much more.

    Another thing, I'm not certain about the manual that comes with the 9503 but you may want to consider checking out the 9303 manual, its fairly comprehensive and 95% of it applies to both radios
    Andy - Helicopter Forum Moderator
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  14. #39

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    RE: JR 9503 issues

    The 9303 Manual is almost verbatim what is in the new 9503 Manual. Here is the crux of my problem, both manuals state the same thing about Wing Type. They say to use FLAPERON if you are using 2 channels for aileron or elevator; this is what most of us do. Yet, when the Horizon tech helped me set up the Tx. he used NORMAL wing type, and everything works just fine; I've tried to upload page A-27 from the 9303 manual;(see icon in lower left corner I think) but if it didn't upload, take a look at it yourself online. Do you guys use NORMAL or FLAPERON wing type for a straught forward basic set-up with THROTTLE, AILERON, ELEVATOR, and RUDDER???
    Attached Files Attached Files

  15. #40

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    RE: JR 9503 issues


    ORIGINAL: drbyrnes

    The 9303 Manual is almost verbatim what is in the new 9503 Manual. Here is the crux of my problem, both manuals state the same thing about Wing Type. They say to use FLAPERON if you are using 2 channels for aileron or elevator; this is what most of us do. Yet, when the Horizon tech helped me set up the Tx. he used NORMAL wing type, and everything works just fine; I've tried to upload page A-27 from the 9303 manual;(see icon in lower left corner I think) but if it didn't upload, take a look at it yourself online. Do you guys use NORMAL or FLAPERON wing type for a straught forward basic set-up with THROTTLE, AILERON, ELEVATOR, and RUDDER???
    I have had a couple of 9303's since they first came out. For many years before that, I used the Flapperon program to mix the Aileron and Flap channel for Ailerons or Flapperons. With the 9303/9503, you set the Wing Typye to Normal, and Mate the Aileron channel to an available channel, in the Wing Type screen. Be sure to go into the Device Select screen and Inhibit the channel you plan to Mate. Also, disable any Switch assigned to that channel, as well. For some reason, Aux 4 is not an available channel for the Mate function.

    The manual was not all that good when it first came out. There are Addendums you will find on the Horizon site, but there is still information left to your imagination.
    Rich
    byronf16@gmail.com

  16. #41

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    RE: JR 9503 issues



    I’ve been confused when you were having troubles with dual elevators and thought that the FLAPERON wing type had to be used. I don’t see what the connection is between having dual elevators and dual ailerons. The attachment you posted doesn’t state there is any. All it says is that, . . ."NORMAL wing type is used when the Aileron channel is the only channel to be used to control ailerons, either with 1 servo, or multiple servos connected through a Y-harness to the aileron channel. It is also used when the aircraft is equipped with flaps that are separate from the ailerons. FLAPERON is typically used when Ailerons are controlled by separate servos that are on separate channels and there are no other flaps on the aircraft . . ."



    On all my aircraft that I’ve used with 9303's, I’ve always used the flaperon wing type because I want to have flaperons.



    The confusion occurs when people want dual ailerons without the flaperon attribute. On the 9303 and 12X, if you use the FLAPERON wing type and INH the FLAP channel output in the Device Sel., you’ll get dual ailerons with a common aileron trim without the FLAP SYS menu. The problem with this scheme is that while it works on the 9303 and 12X, it won’t on the 11X. If this short cut to having dual ailerons doesn’t work on the 9503, then there must have been a change made in the programming logic. I’ve always considered this technique for dual ailerons without flaperons to be less than elegant.



    Allan


  17. #42

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    RE: JR 9503 issues

    I agree with BuschBarber, and the setup he has suggested is what has worked for me; and, this is how the tech from Horizon set it up for me. I don't really see the need to select FLAPERON wing type, if I don't want or need flaps or flaperons. Anyway, thanks to everyone for your help. I still think the manuals cause confusion.

  18. #43
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    RE: JR 9503 issues

    The manual and the back n forth setup on th e radio ( select type/cancel functions) I thought were really goofy- but once I got the correct wing type selection and disarmed the various switches - the radios worked very well -both the 2.4 and the 72.xx versions
    Having said that - I sold em both and got the DX8s'
    The 8s are NOT as heavy and don't have bat switches - other than that - I far prefer them
    good programming
    Libby is still watching you

  19. #44

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    RE: JR 9503 issues

    Link to the DX8....looks good to me! Capt,n

    http://beta.horizonhobby.com/product...sx-md2-SPM8800
    Imagination is far more important than knowledge. Albert Einstein.

    http://www.lambertsrc.com/

  20. #45

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    RE: JR 9503 issues

    Hoosier,

    Sounds like your'e the JR 9303 programming guru. I hate this radio because it is hard to program and not intuitive. I've been trying to change my flap control from the flap switch to the left side slider. Nowhere does it say in the manual what the side sliders are called. There is aux1, aux2, aux3 and aux4. What the heck are the sliders and how to you activate them??

  21. #46

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    RE: JR 9503 issues


    ORIGINAL: Eplane65

    Hoosier,

    Sounds like your'e the JR 9303 programming guru. I hate this radio because it is hard to program and not intuitive. I've been trying to change my flap control from the flap switch to the left side slider. Nowhere does it say in the manual what the side sliders are called. There is aux1, aux2, aux3 and aux4. What the heck are the sliders and how to you activate them??
    I ran into the dame issue when I bought it 4 years ago. The Left Slider is the Flap Lever. The Right Slider is the Aux3 Lever.
    Rich
    byronf16@gmail.com


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