Futaba S-Bus?
12-25-2010, 09:46 AM
#1
Futaba S-Bus?
I was recently looking at a Tower ad and came across this S-Bus product. I am curious as to how this works. It certainly sounds like a great idea.
So if I understand it correctly, it eliminates having to plug in your servos, correct? So they each become their own RX? It states you can even use existing Analog and digital servos. It seems that these would have to be plugged into something? Are their specific S-bus servos and and do you recognize them? I did not find any that specifically mentioned this capability in the spec sheet.
This would certainly be wonderful on larger aircraft and in particular the aileron servos in the top wing of a biplane.
So if I understand it correctly, it eliminates having to plug in your servos, correct? So they each become their own RX? It states you can even use existing Analog and digital servos. It seems that these would have to be plugged into something? Are their specific S-bus servos and and do you recognize them? I did not find any that specifically mentioned this capability in the spec sheet.
This would certainly be wonderful on larger aircraft and in particular the aileron servos in the top wing of a biplane.
12-25-2010, 10:04 AM
#2
RE: Futaba S-Bus?
Maybe I should have looked in youtube first. Here is a great explanation. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eDQJd...eature=related
Here is another one http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AxezNIXW6eg&NR=1
Here is another one http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AxezNIXW6eg&NR=1
12-27-2010, 01:46 AM
#3
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RE: Futaba S-Bus?
ORIGINAL: vertical grimmace
Maybe I should have looked in youtube first. Here is a great explanation. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eDQJd...eature=related
Here is another one http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AxezNIXW6eg&NR=1
Maybe I should have looked in youtube first. Here is a great explanation. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eDQJd...eature=related
Here is another one http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AxezNIXW6eg&NR=1
I hear lots of talking but saw little demo.
The first video show one motion of an elevator,
The secondvideo show no control surface motion at all.
It bothers me.
I am not saying it does not work.
Zor
12-27-2010, 08:02 AM
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RE: Futaba S-Bus?
It works. I have seen a 6 servo competition glider set up with it. Works as advertised. He was able to shae a few precious grams of weight and significantly reduce the wire clutter in a tight install in a narrow fuse.
12-27-2010, 08:06 AM
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RE: Futaba S-Bus?
I have not seen or used the the S Bus but I can see how it works. They just put the pulse train on a common line and run it and the power for the servo to each servo. Then they put a gismo on each servo that picks out the proper pules from the pulse train for that servo. I suspect they even have a multiposition switch on the gismo that allows you to select which pulse to use for the servo.
This should be easy to do with modern electronics but it seems to me to be another complication of the electronics.
The military has been doing a similar thing in full scale for years. Check out MS 1553.
This should be easy to do with modern electronics but it seems to me to be another complication of the electronics.
The military has been doing a similar thing in full scale for years. Check out MS 1553.
12-27-2010, 08:28 AM
#6
RE: Futaba S-Bus?
Anyone have any juicy rumors about a new Futaba system coming in 2011? A successor to the 14MZ as the new flagship perhaps? Seems likely something is in the works, since the S-bus equipment can handle more channels than any current Futaba transmitter can transmit. I've searched around but not found anything. Usually you see previews in Japan where the new stuff seems to come out first.
I remain skeptical about the utility of the S-bus as it stands, since the only problem it seems to solve (multiple wires running to remote locations) is not a very big problem for most applications. Plus all the standard S-Bus wiring is way to skinny to be useful to the 3D and jets crowd, the main targets for this innovation (as I see it).
Looks like Robbe in Germany has a nice offering to complement S-bus, since we all seem to be nutty over powerboxes and the like, see: [link=http://at.robbe-online.net/rims_at.storefront/en]http://at.robbe-online.net/rims_at.storefront/en[/link]. This unit does battery redundancy, voltage regulation, buffering, etc.
I guess we can order direct from Robbe if we want one over here, wonder if Futaba will be bringing these items in through the usual USA dist network any time soon. They also seem to have 4-servo S-bus to PWM adapters, here we only have 1-servo and 3-servo versions.
Looking forward to some interesting announcements from the "death star/galactic empire" (aka Futaba) in 2011 to show the real utility of these new innovations like S-bus. They seem to be really good at keeping secrets, so far!
Dave
I remain skeptical about the utility of the S-bus as it stands, since the only problem it seems to solve (multiple wires running to remote locations) is not a very big problem for most applications. Plus all the standard S-Bus wiring is way to skinny to be useful to the 3D and jets crowd, the main targets for this innovation (as I see it).
Looks like Robbe in Germany has a nice offering to complement S-bus, since we all seem to be nutty over powerboxes and the like, see: [link=http://at.robbe-online.net/rims_at.storefront/en]http://at.robbe-online.net/rims_at.storefront/en[/link]. This unit does battery redundancy, voltage regulation, buffering, etc.
I guess we can order direct from Robbe if we want one over here, wonder if Futaba will be bringing these items in through the usual USA dist network any time soon. They also seem to have 4-servo S-bus to PWM adapters, here we only have 1-servo and 3-servo versions.
Looking forward to some interesting announcements from the "death star/galactic empire" (aka Futaba) in 2011 to show the real utility of these new innovations like S-bus. They seem to be really good at keeping secrets, so far!
Dave
12-27-2010, 09:15 AM
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RE: Futaba S-Bus?
Actually, you use a programmer to set the channel number of the servo for use on the S-Bus, out of the box, they work like any other servo on a normal servo bus. The S-Bus servos have extensive programming capabilities.
One other thing to mention, S-Bus servos are not proprietary, according to Futaba, they are certified to work with any Futaba receiver, going back to the early 80's, AM, FM, whatever. I guess you could take this to mean that they will work with just about any radio out there[8D] Of course they will never make any guarantees for other brands of radios, but that is understandable.
One thing I really liked, any S-Bus receiver can be programmed to run as a non-proportional retract servo (180dg.), but since it also has a feedback pot, you can program one to be a retract servo that runs as slow as you want it to go. I don't know if there are too many other servos that can pull that one off!.
A Happy & Healthy New Year to All!
Pete
One other thing to mention, S-Bus servos are not proprietary, according to Futaba, they are certified to work with any Futaba receiver, going back to the early 80's, AM, FM, whatever. I guess you could take this to mean that they will work with just about any radio out there[8D] Of course they will never make any guarantees for other brands of radios, but that is understandable.
One thing I really liked, any S-Bus receiver can be programmed to run as a non-proportional retract servo (180dg.), but since it also has a feedback pot, you can program one to be a retract servo that runs as slow as you want it to go. I don't know if there are too many other servos that can pull that one off!.
A Happy & Healthy New Year to All!
Pete
12-27-2010, 12:08 PM
#8
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RE: Futaba S-Bus?
ORIGINAL: pilotpete2
Actually, you use a programmer to set the channel number of the servo for use on the S-Bus, out of the box, they work like any other servo on a normal servo bus. The S-Bus servos have extensive programming capabilities.
One other thing to mention, S-Bus servos are not proprietary, according to Futaba, they are certified to work with any Futaba receiver, going back to the early 80's, AM, FM, whatever. I guess you could take this to mean that they will work with just about any radio out there[8D] Of course they will never make any guarantees for other brands of radios, but that is understandable.
One thing I really liked, any S-Bus receiver can be programmed to run as a non-proportional retract servo (180dg.), but since it also has a feedback pot, you can program one to be a retract servo that runs as slow as you want it to go. I don't know if there are too many other servos that can pull that one off!.
A Happy & Healthy New Year to All!
Pete
Actually, you use a programmer to set the channel number of the servo for use on the S-Bus, out of the box, they work like any other servo on a normal servo bus. The S-Bus servos have extensive programming capabilities.
One other thing to mention, S-Bus servos are not proprietary, according to Futaba, they are certified to work with any Futaba receiver, going back to the early 80's, AM, FM, whatever. I guess you could take this to mean that they will work with just about any radio out there[8D] Of course they will never make any guarantees for other brands of radios, but that is understandable.
One thing I really liked, any S-Bus receiver can be programmed to run as a non-proportional retract servo (180dg.), but since it also has a feedback pot, you can program one to be a retract servo that runs as slow as you want it to go. I don't know if there are too many other servos that can pull that one off!.
A Happy & Healthy New Year to All!
Pete
Did you mean "any S-Bus servo ?
I do not know of any receiver with a feed back pot.
Zor
will need one to warm me up when I come in from running the snow-blower
01-01-2011, 05:51 PM
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RE: Futaba S-Bus?
i am planing to use the s buss on a 112 cc extra 4 x 20 klg s bus servos on aeilenons one brushless 35klg on ruder and two hitec 97555 24klg on eleverator one futaba 9402 10klg on throtle note the rudder and elevator servos are running of the s buss rx but out of the normal terminals the ailerons are working off the s buss cable with the s buss hubbs terminals now the batterys are a123 cells two 2600 mha one at the rx and the other one in at the s buss hubb my theory is to get the power load closer to the 4 aileron servos ANY ONE GOT ADDVICE OR SEE ANY PROBLEMS
01-03-2011, 04:23 AM
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RE: Futaba S-Bus?
Similiar digital technology has been used in model trains for ages.
S.Bus technology gives Futaba flexibility in marketing new transmitters like the 8FG. With the coming update, the 8FG can handle at least 12 servos. The strange gap between the 8ch Rx and 14ch Rx is filled by the S.Bus Rx as well.
S.Bus also requires different connectors and servo lines. There are some adaptors for older "normal" gear.
S.Bus technology gives Futaba flexibility in marketing new transmitters like the 8FG. With the coming update, the 8FG can handle at least 12 servos. The strange gap between the 8ch Rx and 14ch Rx is filled by the S.Bus Rx as well.
S.Bus also requires different connectors and servo lines. There are some adaptors for older "normal" gear.
01-03-2011, 09:28 AM
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RE: Futaba S-Bus?
ORIGINAL: ira d
I think at some point all servos will be S Bus compatible or somthing simlar and that is when the system will gain popularty.
I think at some point all servos will be S Bus compatible or somthing simlar and that is when the system will gain popularty.
All servos (Futaba) are currently S-Bus compatible. Either by being purpose built as in the "SB" designated servos or by use of the S-Bus decoder that allows any digital OR analog servo to be used with the S-Bus RX.
Each SBD-1 S.Bus decoder includes 3 outputs.
Each output can be programmed to specific channels.
SBD Link software determines what channel each servo output responds to – preventing mismatched servo-channel connections.
Compatible with standard analog and digital servos – as well as programmable S.Bus system servos.
Each output can be programmed to specific channels.
SBD Link software determines what channel each servo output responds to – preventing mismatched servo-channel connections.
Compatible with standard analog and digital servos – as well as programmable S.Bus system servos.
01-04-2011, 12:05 AM
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RE: Futaba S-Bus?
someone mentioned the S-bus leads are of too small a gauge to handle the current demands of large scale models and jets. Please explain as I consider this to be utter hogwash.
01-04-2011, 05:09 AM
#18
RE: Futaba S-Bus?
The wire gauge is an issue and so are the connectors. That's where the current gets pinched. This could be a real issue depending on the setup. I'd have to see the layout of the plane, servos, batteries, battery locations, and switches. Anybody know the gauge of S-bus? Power distribution considerations are never hog wash. If you know anything about power systems you are 100% aware that there are voltage drops for every foot of wire you have. The smaller the gauge wire, the higher the voltage drops. There are calculators online to figure this out. Very simple stuff. I could see having multiple battery locations in a very large plane....say one in front and one in the tail. I need to know more about the S-bus system to figure this all out myself. I've always used Futaba. If it works for me I'll definitely consider it.
01-04-2011, 06:29 AM
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RE: Futaba S-Bus?
ORIGINAL: JoeAirPort
... Anybody know the gauge of S-bus? ...
... Anybody know the gauge of S-bus? ...
01-04-2011, 07:39 AM
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RE: Futaba S-Bus?
ORIGINAL: JoeAirPort
The wire gauge is an issue and so are the connectors. That's where the current gets pinched. This could be a real issue depending on the setup. I'd have to see the layout of the plane, servos, batteries, battery locations, and switches. Anybody know the gauge of S-bus? Power distribution considerations are never hog wash. If you know anything about power systems you are 100% aware that there are voltage drops for every foot of wire you have. The smaller the gauge wire, the higher the voltage drops. There are calculators online to figure this out. Very simple stuff. I could see having multiple battery locations in a very large plane....say one in front and one in the tail. I need to know more about the S-bus system to figure this all out myself. I've always used Futaba. If it works for me I'll definitely consider it.
The wire gauge is an issue and so are the connectors. That's where the current gets pinched. This could be a real issue depending on the setup. I'd have to see the layout of the plane, servos, batteries, battery locations, and switches. Anybody know the gauge of S-bus? Power distribution considerations are never hog wash. If you know anything about power systems you are 100% aware that there are voltage drops for every foot of wire you have. The smaller the gauge wire, the higher the voltage drops. There are calculators online to figure this out. Very simple stuff. I could see having multiple battery locations in a very large plane....say one in front and one in the tail. I need to know more about the S-bus system to figure this all out myself. I've always used Futaba. If it works for me I'll definitely consider it.
I am well versused in power distribution and wiring requirements hence the strong suspicion that the above is just plain ana simple fear mongering and grandstanding.
I see Large scale 3d planes and jets every weekend using is little as 18AWG without wiring evaporating. Most std servo's use 22AWG which is what S-bus uses so wheres the issue.
The main current draw is on the power lines since system bus systems do not transmit in high current so the signal wire is irrelevant.
Even large 3d planes servos will draw a couple of amps for a very short period of time.
S-Bus wiring is also shielded wiring so there no chanceof interference affecting the signal.
Lastly, I find it hard to believe that a company as experienced in factory automation, that has utilised system bus on many production lines as well as F1 car to pit telemetry and pit to car re-configuration telemetry (banned since themid 90's - just to illustrate how long ago Futaba has been doing this sort of thing)will get the wire gauge on a RCsystem wrong.
So please, support your fears with numbers and facts not fear conjucture and opinion. I'm not an out and out expert of this stuff but I've been around it long enough to know that the wire gauge is not an issue. So if your fears are ground (forgive the intended pun) in fact please share those facts.
What I know of System Bus is that it can support multiple battery pack inputs, multiple telemetry module inputs (wait for announcement in February) as well servo monitoring, even multiple receivers if you wish to improve diversity and redundancy.
I've heard the wire gauge arguement before but strangely always from folk supporting other brands....
01-04-2011, 07:44 AM
#21
RE: Futaba S-Bus?
It depends on the exact type of wire they use but 20 gauge could be good up to +/- 10 amps continuous (it's hard to find exact current ratings for wire this small, Google it). Also a voltage drop calculation should be done if the plane is 8-14 feet long.
01-04-2011, 09:00 AM
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RE: Futaba S-Bus?
ORIGINAL: JoeAirPort
It depends on the exact type of wire they use but 20 gauge could be good up to +/- 10 amps continuous (it's hard to find exact current ratings for wire this small, Google it). Also a voltage drop calculation should be done if the plane is 8-14 feet long.
It depends on the exact type of wire they use but 20 gauge could be good up to +/- 10 amps continuous (it's hard to find exact current ratings for wire this small, Google it). Also a voltage drop calculation should be done if the plane is 8-14 feet long.
Here's a good one:
http://www.altronix.com/app_notes/calc.php
01-04-2011, 09:48 AM
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RE: Futaba S-Bus?
ORIGINAL: TimBle
I am well versused in power distribution and wiring requirements hence the strong suspicion that the above is just plain ana simple fear mongering and grandstanding.
I see Large scale 3d planes and jets every weekend using is little as 18AWG without wiring evaporating. Most std servo's use 22AWG which is what S-bus uses so wheres the issue.
I am well versused in power distribution and wiring requirements hence the strong suspicion that the above is just plain ana simple fear mongering and grandstanding.
I see Large scale 3d planes and jets every weekend using is little as 18AWG without wiring evaporating. Most std servo's use 22AWG which is what S-bus uses so wheres the issue.
BTW, according to Futaba, the S-bus uses 20 gauge wire, not 22.
01-04-2011, 05:00 PM
#25
RE: Futaba S-Bus?
ORIGINAL: Silent-AV8R
Here's a good one:
http://www.altronix.com/app_notes/calc.php
ORIGINAL: JoeAirPort
It depends on the exact type of wire they use but 20 gauge could be good up to +/- 10 amps continuous (it's hard to find exact current ratings for wire this small, Google it). Also a voltage drop calculation should be done if the plane is 8-14 feet long.
It depends on the exact type of wire they use but 20 gauge could be good up to +/- 10 amps continuous (it's hard to find exact current ratings for wire this small, Google it). Also a voltage drop calculation should be done if the plane is 8-14 feet long.
Here's a good one:
http://www.altronix.com/app_notes/calc.php