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FUTABA Telemetry

Old 04-09-2011, 12:32 PM
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Default RE: FUTABA Telemetry


ORIGINAL: Silent-AV8R


ORIGINAL: MikeL

This reminds me of 5 or so years ago when 2.4ghz was on the verge of going mainstream. ''I can't imagine needing that.'' ''I don't see the purpose.'' ''I've been flying since 1962 and...'' ''If you can't be disciplined enough to...'' and so on and so forth. Same arguments and stiff stances, with likely some of the same people making them. Convenience, utility, and market forces will work the same way this time as last time.

I do not see them as the same thing. 2.4 SS is probably the best thing to happen to this hobby since servo reversing! It tangibly increased safety, eliminated the possibilities of being shot down and have significantly reduced losses due to interference. That is far different from knowing my RX pack voltage, exhaust gas temperature or in flight rpm.

Keep in mind that you can have in flight voltage and altitude and other parameters right now using the Eagle Tree and other systems. But I do not see people saying that it is an absolute must have. Now if the radio makers can include that feature at a reasonable cost, then more people may find it useful. But let's look 2 years down the road and see how many people are still using it on a regular basis.

Telemetry is a new gadget that is a value added feature, it is not an absolute requirement.
It already is offered at a reasonable price. Take the Hitec Aurora 9 for example. I am sure that Futaba will follow.
Old 04-09-2011, 01:44 PM
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Default RE: FUTABA Telemetry


ORIGINAL: Silent-AV8R

I do not see them as the same thing. 2.4 SS is probably the best thing to happen to this hobby since servo reversing! It tangibly increased safety, eliminated the possibilities of being shot down and have significantly reduced losses due to interference. That is far different from knowing my RX pack voltage, exhaust gas temperature or in flight rpm.

Keep in mind that you can have in flight voltage and altitude and other parameters right now using the Eagle Tree and other systems. But I do not see people saying that it is an absolute must have. Now if the radio makers can include that feature at a reasonable cost, then more people may find it useful. But let's look 2 years down the road and see how many people are still using it on a regular basis.

Telemetry is a new gadget that is a value added feature, it is not an absolute requirement.
2.4ghz was never a must have, either. It made certain things easier, same as telemetry does. I don't need it, but my next radio (which is probably years away) will have it. Will it be something I'll use? You bet! The idea of being able to check my RX battery before flight without hooking up a voltmeter or having something hang off the airframe is nice. Most people don't check their voltages now, but make it dead-easy and most will.

I'm not overly curious about the how high/how fast or the more advanced applications, but some people sure will be. How many of us whine and complain about the hobby being "dumbed down?" About how kits have gone the way of the dodo, because of lazy ARFers? About how sims and parkflyers have lowered the cost of admission to the hobby? Well, here's something that might encourage some new ideas. Some new thinking about performance. It might interest some folks who like to collect data, tinker, and see if their tinkering had a positive outcome. That sounds great!

I have a hard time passionately begrudging telemetry. I'm at a loss as to explain why anyone would waste their breath talking it down, as though it's a bad thing. Maybe I just don't have the free time that others do.
Old 04-09-2011, 01:51 PM
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Default RE: FUTABA Telemetry

ORIGINAL: BuschBarber


It already is offered at a reasonable price. Take the Hitec Aurora 9 for example. I am sure that Futaba will follow.

The Aurora 9 is reasonably priced? It costs more than my F150 did! In all actual seriousness, it is quite reasonably priced considering it's nine channels, 2.4ghz, and has telemetry. And my truck is really really cheap.

What I would love to see is a pretty inexpensive, modular telemetry set that's independent of your radio. The readout is placed on some sunglasses as a Head's Up Display. That way you get to see your desired vital signs, the sun doesn't blind you, and you don't have to take your eyes off your plane! Or car. Or boat. Or whatever the hell you have it mounted on. I would, for my cars, have fuel, engine temp, engine RPM, speed in MPH, and where applicable whether it's in Forward or Reverse. My touring car would have a G-meter here, since it lacks a reverse capable gearbox. For planes, I would change the Forward/Reverse monitor into a G-meter and add an Rx batt monitor as well.
Old 04-09-2011, 01:58 PM
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Default RE: FUTABA Telemetry

Alright. I give. I am not flying again until Futaba has telemetry.
Old 04-09-2011, 02:10 PM
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Default RE: FUTABA Telemetry


[/quote]

That could be as simple as a timer - the longer you're at the flying field, the more foul the mood will be....


LOL, I think your wife and mine are sisters
Old 04-09-2011, 02:10 PM
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Default RE: FUTABA Telemetry


ORIGINAL: 378

ORIGINAL: BuschBarber


It already is offered at a reasonable price. Take the Hitec Aurora 9 for example. I am sure that Futaba will follow.

The Aurora 9 is reasonably priced? It costs more than my F150 did! In all actual seriousness, it is quite reasonably priced considering it's nine channels, 2.4ghz, and has telemetry. And my truck is really really cheap.

What I would love to see is a pretty inexpensive, modular telemetry set that's independent of your radio. The readout is placed on some sunglasses as a Head's Up Display. That way you get to see your desired vital signs, the sun doesn't blind you, and you don't have to take your eyes off your plane! Or car. Or boat. Or whatever the hell you have it mounted on. I would, for my cars, have fuel, engine temp, engine RPM, speed in MPH, and where applicable whether it's in Forward or Reverse. My touring car would have a G-meter here, since it lacks a reverse capable gearbox. For planes, I would change the Forward/Reverse monitor into a G-meter and add an Rx batt monitor as well.
None of that makes any sense. I do not have an Aurora 9, but for $350 and discounts on additional receivers, the A9 is very affordable even with the built in Telemetry. The A9 and the DX8 are selling well. I have heard many prospective buyers in my club indicate it is a worthwhile additional consideration.

It is not being forced down your throat. If you don't like it, don't buy it.

If I had to pay up the nose for a radio that came with Telemetry, I would not be so anxious to buy it. I am sure that the Eagle Tree System works very well but I am not interested enough to spend the extra dollars for it, just to have Telemetry.
Old 04-09-2011, 02:12 PM
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Default RE: FUTABA Telemetry

ORIGINAL: BuschBarber


ORIGINAL: 378

ORIGINAL: BuschBarber


It already is offered at a reasonable price. Take the Hitec Aurora 9 for example. I am sure that Futaba will follow.

The Aurora 9 is reasonably priced? It costs more than my F150 did! In all actual seriousness, it is quite reasonably priced considering it's nine channels, 2.4ghz, and has telemetry. And my truck is really really cheap.

What I would love to see is a pretty inexpensive, modular telemetry set that's independent of your radio. The readout is placed on some sunglasses as a Head's Up Display. That way you get to see your desired vital signs, the sun doesn't blind you, and you don't have to take your eyes off your plane! Or car. Or boat. Or whatever the hell you have it mounted on. I would, for my cars, have fuel, engine temp, engine RPM, speed in MPH, and where applicable whether it's in Forward or Reverse. My touring car would have a G-meter here, since it lacks a reverse capable gearbox. For planes, I would change the Forward/Reverse monitor into a G-meter and add an Rx batt monitor as well.
None of that makes any sense. I do not have an Aurora 9, but for $350 and discounts on additional receivers, the A9 is very affordable even with the built in Telemetry. The A9 and the DX8 are selling well. I have heard many prospective buyers in my club indicate it is a worthwhile additional consideration.

It is not being forced down your throat. If you don't like it, don't buy it.

If I had to pay up the nose for a radio that came with Telemetry, I would not be so anxious to buy it. I am sure that the Eagle Tree System works very well but I am not interested enough to spend the extra dollars for it, just to have Telemetry.

Cheapest one on Tower is 430 bucks, and then you have to factor in buying servos on top of that
Old 04-09-2011, 02:18 PM
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Default RE: FUTABA Telemetry

If you take time to look at the Hitec Aurora 9 thread that has been running for over a year (since before the radio was available), you will find links to various mail order hobby shops that are selling the A9 for less than what I quoted.
Old 04-09-2011, 04:39 PM
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Default RE: FUTABA Telemetry

You can use this code from tower: 010MG for $50.00 off that price.

Doug.
Old 04-09-2011, 06:22 PM
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Sean Reilly
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Default RE: FUTABA Telemetry

What might happen if your flying with the telemetry on and the person right next to you is also using this also. Maybe yours will confuse the guy next to you or vise-versa. If this audiable to those near you .. in earshot range ... then what will stop this cross-talk confusion?
Old 04-09-2011, 07:05 PM
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Default RE: FUTABA Telemetry


ORIGINAL: Sean Reilly

What might happen if your flying with the telemetry on and the person right next to you is also using this also. Maybe yours will confuse the guy next to you or vise-versa. If this audiable to those near you .. in earshot range ... then what will stop this cross-talk confusion?
I have never been a big fan of the Timers built in to Transmitters, because they were hard to hear. Most everyone has an Audible Timer on their Tx these days. I use a Talking Timer that is clipped to my shirt. It Counts Down and announces each Minute and every 10 sec of the last Minute. I have never heard anyone complain about my Talking Timer distracting them when they stood near me while flying. A number of my fellow club members have these devices.

I would expect the Telemetry Voice Module might have a jack for an Earphone, or Bluetooth capability to transmit to a Bluetooth Headset. Since Spektrum has announced that theirs will communicate with an iPhone or iPod, I would suspect that Bluetooth would be involved.

In any case, just like my Talking Timer, I would not expect there to be a distraction problem. Pilots should be standing an adequate distance away from each other, anyway.
ORIGINAL: Sean Reilly

What might happen if your flying with the telemetry on and the person right next to you is also using this also. Maybe yours will confuse the guy next to you or vise-versa. If this audiable to those near you .. in earshot range ... then what will stop this cross-talk confusion?
Old 04-09-2011, 09:47 PM
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Default RE: FUTABA Telemetry

Real time tele really would be useful especially for some things like rpm and temperature, If you're overheating you could shut down and land and fix the airflow probs before you trash the engine, comes to mind for planes, boats, and helis, esp with cowled in engines and inline engines.  Admittedly once a machine is set up you wouldn't use the function alot but this hobby is laden with continual experimentation so I like the possibilities.  

Futaba radios should have a soothing female voice, with heavy Japanese accent, to warn you of "Engine Too Hot" or "battawy is Lo" or "Gasoween is lo!"

of course the german-made radios will play WW11 triumphant marches everytime your 1/5 scale me109 lands too.
Old 04-10-2011, 05:26 AM
  #63  
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Default RE: FUTABA Telemetry


ORIGINAL: 8178


ORIGINAL: Jezmo

I noticed it mentioned that the low voltage failsafe would somehow save a plane that has had a battery go weak. I am reasonably certain that a plane that has had failsafe kick in from a low RX battery is uncontrollable from the ground. Been flying RC for 40 years a great deal of that on Futaba and absolutely believe they have the best menu system out there but sheez, come one, the truth is the truth. Once the receiver battery has gone down past the point of servo function it's over. Kiss that one goodbye.
Futaba handles RX fail safe low voltage really well. You can read up on it here http://www.futaba-rc.com/downloads/manuals.html Try the 12FG manual.
Sir, I have read the manuals. Actually quite a few in those 40 years of flying I referred to. Once a receiver has gone into fail-safe from low voltage you DO NOT control it from the ground any longer. There are some options concerning what will happen when the battery fails but none include you having transmitter control. If the voltage drops rapidly as in the case of a failed switch or open circuit in the pack none of the fail-safe choices will matter as there will not be any current available to move the servos anyway.

If you want believe what you wrote "Futaba handles RX fail safe low voltage really well" then continue to do so but please don't try to sell me snake oil, I'm not interested. I will state it one more time and this is an absolute undeniable fact, once a receiver battery has gone down past the point of servo function, it's over. No control, nada, nothing, servos CAN'T move anymore.
Old 04-10-2011, 05:43 AM
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Default RE: FUTABA Telemetry

I can't speak for Futaba, but in the case of Spektrum, the low voltage drops that caused Brownouts, were only temporary. The Rx would reboot and control was restored.

I realize that total battery failure is an unrecoverable event, but receiving a warning that the Rx battery voltage is critical, could potentially give the pilot time to save the aircraft.
Old 04-10-2011, 05:48 AM
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Default RE: FUTABA Telemetry

[/quote]
If you want believe what you wrote ''Futaba handles RX fail safe low voltage really well'' then continue to do so but please don't try to sell me snake oil, I'm not interested. I will state it one more time and this is an absolute undeniable fact, once a receiver battery has gone down past the point of servo function, it's over. No control, nada, nothing, servos CAN'T move anymore.
[/quote]

Absolutely right, but when the voltage drops to 3.8 volts, the Futaba receivers (that by the way, can work down to 2.6 volts) will failsafe the throttle channel ONLY to warn you that there's a problem. I've seen this save many planes before.

Doug.
Old 04-10-2011, 06:57 AM
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Default RE: FUTABA Telemetry

Absolutely right, but when the voltage drops to 3.8 volts, the Futaba receivers (that by the way, can work down to 2.6 volts) will failsafe the throttle channel ONLY to warn you that there's a problem. I've seen this save many planes before.

Doug.

Even better than Futabas Fail Safe with a throttle movement is HI-Tech Auroa with reciever voltage read out. I use a Futaba 9CAPS with the Hi-Tech 2.4 Module and it signals when the reciever battery is low, evenon my Futaba, by beeping.
Old 04-10-2011, 07:55 AM
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Default RE: FUTABA Telemetry

The Futaba radios that offer low voltage failsafe will typically just move the throttle to a low position. You can reset for about a minute by moving the stick to low and then back to high. The 12 and 14 channel radios allow you to set a battery failsafe (B-F/S) for all channels. Otherwise the other channels simply hold their last good position.

This feature operates at about 3.8 volts. The Futaba FASST receivers have been shown to continue to operate down below 3 volts. Some digital servos (non-Futaba) will stop working at 3 volts.

I have suggested several times to Futaba that they make this feature adjustable by the user so that you can set the voltage to a more useful one for your battery system. I mostly fly using 2S LiFePO4 packs and if I get to 3.8 volts my packs are essentially dead. I have never had this feature actually operate for real while flying, but it is there.
Old 04-10-2011, 10:45 AM
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Default RE: FUTABA Telemetry

I don't get all of the negativity towards telemetry. It's just a source of information that can help you maintain your plane. The low voltage warning on my aurora 9 is invaluable in my opinion. These new 2.4 receivers shut down at a certain voltage, so it is extremely important that you do not get close to that voltage while flying. You can say what you want about maintaining batteries, etc...... But do you have a "real time" understanding of the load that you servos are putting on a battery? 10 digital servos might be sagging your battery down a bit more than your 4 channel trainer. Also, if telemetry wasn't valuable....they wouldnt need it in in the real ones. Just my 2 cents.
Old 04-10-2011, 12:17 PM
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Default RE: FUTABA Telemetry


ORIGINAL: Silent-AV8R

The Futaba radios that offer low voltage failsafe will typically just move the throttle to a low position. You can reset for about a minute by moving the stick to low and then back to high. The 12 and 14 channel radios allow you to set a battery failsafe (B-F/S) for all channels. Otherwise the other channels simply hold their last good position.

This feature operates at about 3.8 volts. The Futaba FASST receivers have been shown to continue to operate down below 3 volts. Some digital servos (non-Futaba) will stop working at 3 volts.

I have suggested several times to Futaba that they make this feature adjustable by the user so that you can set the voltage to a more useful one for your battery system. I mostly fly using 2S LiFePO4 packs and if I get to 3.8 volts my packs are essentially dead. I have never had this feature actually operate for real while flying, but it is there.

The second sentence of the first paragraph may a little misleading. The 12/14 channel radios do allow for (B-F/S) for each channel or a hold, as stated but also you can select a predetermined value that you can set. It would be slick if you got an audio alarm instead of the throttle being retarded to let you know of the low voltage. Perhaps a sultry female voice saying "(fill in the blanks __________________)

Howard
Old 04-10-2011, 12:23 PM
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Default RE: FUTABA Telemetry

Hi Howard,

I read on the Robbe/Futaba forum that the Futaba telemetry system will include voice output. we'll see.

Doug.
Old 04-10-2011, 12:33 PM
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Default RE: FUTABA Telemetry

The negativity stems from the concern that in order to ascertain exactly what is at  fault you have to take your eyes off the plane. Voice prompts help here but on a flightline with more than 2 or three pilots there is the possibility that vice prompts can be drowned out.
The telemetry features are lovely to have but there is nothing more attention grabbling than your plane wagging its wings to indicate a problem or the throttle servo blipping the throttle to grab your attention.
Fail safes on Futuba Multi channel Rx allow you to set the Rx to move servo's to predetermined positions but these need to taken a step further to provide a visual clue.
Take GPS for example. The voice prompt says turn let in 300ft but the raod you actually need to tuen down is at 280ft and there are two turn offs. Which do you take? So you refer to the moving map. A Visual clue.

Currently telemetry options ony provide information on the Tx screen in real time or a voice prompt. Both are not the most effective means of warning a pilot concentrating on his/her airplane.

Hence these foirst generation telemetry devices are nice to have but gimicky.

Telemetry I will buy will either operate as a failsafe or in conjection with a visual projection onto a headsup display like a sunglass o spectacle lens.

So matter hw much the Hitec door to door salesman want to sell his wares, its poorly implemented and discard his radio as a choice based on other reasons. The Telemetry is not a selling point to me.

IF Futaba merely matches what Hitec and Spektrum are offering I will skip this generation of telemetry. I don't consider the current telemetry offerings to be safe.
Old 04-10-2011, 12:51 PM
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Default RE: FUTABA Telemetry

The problem with receiver voltage telemetry is the same as the problem with the good old Voltwatch, false warnings. There is no substitute for a proper load test on the ground. In over 23 years of flying RC, I've never lost a plane to low receiver batteries (Now I've done it, jinxed myself for sure[]). Many of us are now running A123 cells, so the telemetry would be truly useless,
The one telemetry use that really is snake oil as far as I see it, is a fuel level readout, not the way I fly.
I cannot see how one of those level systems can equal the accuracy of a throttle activated timer in actual use. I establish a safe flight time for each model and land when the time is up. As the saying goes, "works fine, lasts a long time"
I think that the folks that are being perceived as negative on telemetry are just being realistic, rather than trying to rain on your parade
Pete
Old 04-10-2011, 01:21 PM
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Default RE: FUTABA Telemetry

+1 on the fuel gauge. Load of crock.

Engine temperature sensor - why would I need it once off the ground. Maybe indicate lean run? Well engine note changes long before temperature came into play.

Receiver battery warning - watched it in action on a A9 yesterday. NiMH pack lost a cell somewhere in flight. Pilot pulled plane onto knifeedge and the voltage dropped below the threshold Problem was he knew he had an issue before the warning went off since the plane was sluggish on the rudder. His plane did not make it back, it went into failsafe and circled into the bush. at idle. Very little damage but he's parting comment: "So much for battery telemetry..."
Now he hates the radio even more (Says its too heavy and ergonomics is poor - his words not mine)

Theres simply no substitute for proper pre flighting and regular maintenance. Telemetry is just an added expense that adds complexity and in fact raises the power requirements of your on-board flight system.

I'll say it again. Currently its poorly executed and gimmicky.

If manufacturers are serious about telemetry then battery early warning should monitor the change in voltage drop under load over time to decide if the battery is being overloaded or a problem is developing.
Old 04-10-2011, 02:01 PM
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Default RE: FUTABA Telemetry

How many of you naysayers fly electric powered sailplanes?
or any LiPo powered planes.
Old 04-10-2011, 03:06 PM
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Default RE: FUTABA Telemetry

ORIGINAL: rmh

How many of you naysayers fly electric powered sailplanes?
or any LiPo powered planes.

I do. Both actually. As well as giant scale planes, normal F3J/TD gliders, giant scale (aerotow) gliders and helicopters. I've also run fast electric boats (held a couple of national records) that use lipos as well (10S2P setups that can pull 300 amp spikes).


And for you South Americans here, congratulations on Charl Schwartzel winning the Master's Golf Tournament just now. Nicely done!!

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