bigedmustafa

My Feedback: (2)

I've been reading up about the new Futaba 6J radio system that was on display at Toledo last month. Futaba now has two 2.4Ghz FHSS radio systems and two 2.4Ghz FHSS full range air receivers that are apparently completely incompatible with Futaba's mainstream FAAST line of 2.4Ghz radios and receivers.

The Futaba 4YF 2.4Ghz FHSS radio platform was introduced last year, and the tech notes concerning the system couldn't distance it far enough away from FAAST:

"2.4GHz FHSS is not compatible with FASST systems, and the R2004GF receiver is compatible only with electronics created specifically for 2.4GHz FHSS systems."

The notes for the R2004GF were just as dire:

"This receiver does not work with the Futaba FASST system. Use only with the Futaba 4YF 2.4GHz FHSS system. Futaba FASST systems and FHSS systems are not compatible with each other."

Now the 6J radio system is being introduced using the same FHSS frequency modulation as the 4YF 2.4Ghz radio system. The tech notes for the 6J even seem to indicate that Futaba is developing a version of S-Bus for the FHSS radios called S-FHSS.

I'm puzzled by all of this. My first impression when the 4YF 2.4Ghz radio was announced was that Futaba wanted to have an answer for competitors' entry level radios like the Spektrum DX5e and the Airtronics SD-5g, but they didn't want to cannibalize their own receiver sales by having FASST owners snapping up bunches of R2004GF receivers for trainers, sport planes, and park flyers instead of using the more expensive 7-channel FASST receivers.

With the addition of a radio like the 6J, however, that doesn't seem to make sense. The 6J has a better feature set than the FASST entry-level 6EX 2.4Ghz transmitter. If you want to emphasize the value of FASST over FHSS, why develop S-FHSS for your "low end" line of FHSS radios?

It just seems to be confusing to me. Aren't Futaba pilots with 6EX and 7C FAAST radios upset that they're locked out of buying 6-channel full range FHSS Futaba receivers for $44.99? Why come out with a $44.99 6-channel full range receiver at all if almost none of your existing customers can use them?

Putting the Futaba brand name on a radio platform that is incompatible with all existing Futaba 2.4ghz FASST radio systems seems like a really inexplicable marketing move. It seems to me like they have two completely different and incompatible product lines, only with the same brand name on them to maximize consumer frustration.

The 6J looks like a really good value for a 6-channel computer radio. It's got a solid feature set and an aggressive price point. Being incompatible with the FASST product line seems like a great way to anger FASST radio owners who can't use the new R2006GS receiver while at the same time providing no advantage at all for 6J owners to upgrade to higher end Futaba radio systems down the road.

Does anybody have any clue as to what Futaba is up to with this FHSS versus FASST split in their product lineup? I really can't make heads or tales out of what Futaba could be getting out of isolating their low end radio customers with FHSS while watching a significant number of their FASST user base ordering FASST-compatible Orange receivers from Hong Kong at $29.99 instead of paying $89.99 each for genuine Futaba receivers.

mongo

My Feedback: (15)

hello left hand, i got someone here you need to meet. say hello to right hand.

seems like someone at futaba would do the introductions one of these days.

JIMF14D

Hey, maybe if you peel the cover off one of those $44. Futaba FSS receivers, it mighjt look a lot like a $43 Hitec AFSS 6 channel receiver. This would make the second major suppler after Spectrum DSMX to dump their 2.4 designs.

It could have happened that way.

pilotpete2

All I can say is, what are they thinking
Now if they include S-FHSS modulation on the next 8FG update, then there would at least be an upgrade path for someone buying the new t6. A full range 6 channel with full failsafes for 44.99 would be sweet.
This new Futaba FHSS format may be Futabas answer to the BNF craze, so maybe Futaba will be getting into "Link n' fly"[8D]
I noticed that the S-FHSS receivers are made in China to keep the prices lower. None of the FASST receivers are Chinese, even the little 4 channel is made in Taiwan.
Pete

Paul_BB

What is the difference between FASST and FHSS ?
Why did Futaba develop the FHSS ? Is FASST already outdated ?
You are right, this is very confusing. And no telemetry.
What is Futaba up to ? Is Futaba out of control ?

Silent-AV8R

I see this as no different than many automobile makers. They have inexpensive entry level cars and very expensive top of the line cars. They need to be able to offer products for all segments of any market. I know a bunch of people who fly with the 8FG radio. I have not heard any of them complain that they cannot use the FHSS receiver.

DougV

By looking at the FCC docs, it looks like the FHSS unit is just a plain and simple FHSS (like some other FHSS systems) system with no error correction and it will not scan the band at boot. I’m planning on picking this 6J FHSS for my foamies so I don’t put so much wear and tear on my FASST system. I’ll be checking this system with my spectrum analyzer when I get it. S-FHSS is a high speed receiver not S.BUS.

FASST is a Hybrid system DSSS/FHSS (like DSMX) with channel shifting capabilities, the best of both worlds.

Doug.

MinnFlyer

My Feedback: (4)

This is my thought too

JIMF14D

They are probably trying to make something that is useable for 98% of flyers at reduced cost. With Hobby KIng selliing 2.4 Rxs at $7.95, it is a tough market.

Don't laugh, Iamazed how many guys at my field are putting $.8.00 Orange Rxs in simple planes.

bigedmustafa

My Feedback: (2)

I thought Futaba FHSS would be turning up in Hobbico's RTF and/or BNF models, but it's been out almost a year now and Hobbico seems to be using the Tactic 2.4Ghz radios for products like the Switch and the Mini Nexstar EP rather than Futaba.

Jim_Purcha

My Feedback: (8)

I down loaded the manual for the 6J unit and noticed the manual states the transmitter uses 4 1.2 volt dry cells. Not nicad or nimah. Bummer. The futaba 6EAXP transmitter was a 9.6 volt unit.

Jim

BuschBarber

My Feedback: (2)

I believe alkaline batteries are 1.5v and NiCad/NiMh batteries are 1.2v. The total pack voltage would be 4.8v for NiCad/NiMh and 6v for dry cells like alkaline.

Optional Accessories
FUTM1473 HT5F1700B 6V 1700mAh NiMH Tx Pack
Dimensions: 3.3 x 0.71 x 1.7 in (85 x 18 x 44 mm)

This is the ad where I found the details on the Tx pack near the bottom of the page.

http://www.futaba-rc.com/systems/futk6000.html

TimBle

These radios are going to form the platform for their Rx-R and RTF offerings I believe.
FASST is pretty much here to stay with the release of Multi 2 Rx's and the software updates.

Rx-R and RTF kit oftern share very little. If you want to have one radio then one could always buy a 8FG and fit a FASST Rx into an RX-R foamie.

Jim_Purcha

My Feedback: (8)

Here's the manual.

BuschBarber

My Feedback: (2)

Yes!! I know what it says in the manual, but Futaba clearly states on their web site that there is an optional NiMh Tx pack. Obviously, the 6J can handle 6v, which would be five cells (5x1.2v). Dry Cells, like Duracell, are 1.5v per cell, so 4 cells would be 6v (4x1.5v).

P-40 DRIVER

If you do a little reading you will find that thier 6 and 7 channel radio is not compatable with there 8 through 14 channel HS stuff either, so Futaba has Three lines of stuff going at once now that is not interchangable. Each appeals to different market and different price point. I bet we have just seen the tip of the iceburg as far as radio's are concerned. I would not get to heavily vested in any one system, because its going to change. As people are realizing, You don't need the complexity of the faast system to fly a foamy, so why pay for it. I think Futaba has figured this out.

Jim_Purcha

My Feedback: (8)

Just saw the 6J system at a LHS today. $189.00 for a transmitter and receiver (no battery pack or charger). Still seems like a good deal. I'm still using a 72mhz Futaba 6EAX.

pilotpete2

True, you can't use the 8 and 14 channel receivers with the entry level transmitters, but why would anyone want to do that[:-].
On the other hand, the upper level radios can link to any of the FASST air receivers, from 4 to 14 channels.
Actually, the 6 and 7 channel radios will link to the new high performance R6203SB receiver that is primarily for the new flybarless gyro systems for the heli folks. That receiver is capable of up to 18 channels, though no FASST Tx has that capability, yet
If Futaba were to add S-FHSS modulation to the 8FG in a future update, that would really make me inclined to recommend the new T6J system for newcomers, since there would be an upgrade path. For a full range 6 channel receiver, The new Futaba system has Spektrum beat by 15 bucks. That's a first
Pete

DougV

Actually Pete, it’s my understanding that Futaba is already doing this with the new 18MZ radio. It will work with FASST/FASSTest (telemetry) and with the entry level FHSS protocol.
My opinion is that it will not be long before they'll add this to the 8FG with a software update.

JMO,
Doug.

pilotpete2

Convergence[8D]
Pete

BuschBarber

My Feedback: (2)

http://www.futaba-rc.com/systems/18mz.html

bigedmustafa

My Feedback: (2)

Well, it's nice to see that the 18MZ boasts FHSS and S-FHSS compatibility. Integrated FHSS and S-FHSS compatibility throughout the rest of the FASST transmitter line-up would make Futaba a much stronger value.

pilotpete2

I think this is where they're headed.
Pete

onewasp

The picture of the new 18MZ is the counter culture to the JR 11X.

The11X is way too much styling and the 18MZ is a plain box with rounded corners and no styling.
Oh well ................

Silent-AV8R

Fortunately I don't spend a lot of time looking at my transmitter while flying!